13 hours ago, A F said:

Just on Richmond, they're going to give up multiple first rounders for two solid B+ graders. I guess there's not a lot else on the market, but those two wouldn't scare me. 

They will be excellent for the Richmond system.

Taranto will be an outstanding 'A' level player at Richmonod where all players pull their weight.  GWS's so called elite players, don't.

12 hours ago, Demons11 said:

No way Taranto is A grade, the bloke has good attributes but he is incredibly overrated 

Agree, A-grade talent maybe but rarely shows it. 

 

10 hours ago, BAMF said:

Pop quiz hot shot! What was his last good one?

Hopper:

I made a picture called Super Mario Bros. (1993), and my six-year-old son at the time - he's now 18 - he said, "Dad, I think you're probably a pretty good actor, but why did you play that terrible guy "King Koopa" in "Super Mario Bros."?" and I said, "Well Henry, I did that so you could have shoes", and he said, "Dad, I don't need shoes that badly".

22 hours ago, old55 said:

I much more optimistic about our the young component of our list. 

It's hopefully true that we won't have access to early draft picks for the foreseeable future because we'll be contending and all our best players are locked in on long contracts, but we'll still have a first rounder each year and Jason Taylor has a proven track record with later picks.

Assuming absolute worst case scenario that Luke Jackson goes to Freo and we convert him into Brodie Grundy and a replacement for our missing 1st rounder this year, our 18-22yo list is looking solid.

Future AAs (2): Pickett, Petty.
Proven premiership players (5): Spargo, Bowey, Jordon, Rivers, Sparrow
Likely AFL-level (6): Bedford, Laurie, JVR, Howes, Chandler, Turner
Development (5): Rosman, D.Smith, Woewodin, McVee, AMW

I'm assuming Baker will be delisted and it's probable that Bedford or Chandler will leave for more opportunity this year.  Even if only half the "Likely AFL-level" and one of the "Development" players make it, we've got 11 players or half a team in that list.

We should also be able to free very significant salary cap and be heavily involved in the FA market.  As has been posted elsewhere, we need to continuously turn the list over to make sure that the young players are getting AFL opportunities and stay the journey with us.

From @Lucifers Hero excellent contacts thread, we have the following players coming out of contract over the next 3 years and I think we can probably move all of them for cap and list space.  Maybe recontract some on short-term deals and bring forward the trade of others.  That's 11 off the list with a hell of a lot of cap money freed up.

2022: Hibberd, Melksham, Hunt
2023: Dunstan, ANB, Weideman, Tomlinson
2024: B.Brown, Harmes, McDonald, J.Smith

I think there's every reason to expect that Max and Steven May can play into the 2025 season, Max is already contracted and I expect May to get a solid contract extension next year.

Our 2025 22, taking those changes into account and not adding any new draftees or FAs, looks very competitive:

B: Rivers May Lever
HB: Salem Petty Brayshaw
M: Langdon Oliver Jordon
R: Grundy Petracca Viney
HF: Spargo JVR Bedford/Chandler
F: Pickett Gawn Fritsch
I: Bowey Sparrow Howes Laurie

In 2026 we've still got Turner in the hopper as a potential replacement for May and we've got 4 draft, trade and FA years to find a ruck/forward replacement for Max.

I think you are very generous on our small forwards (Pickett aside). 

Spargo has great decision making and short kicking but is a midget who offers nothing overhead and he is slow. His lack of speed is a weakness when we get out on the counterattack. 12 possessions per game and 10 goals for the year is pretty ordinary.

Bedford has a good engine and change of pace but is an ordinary kick and also offers nothing overhead.

Chandler is a player with a more rounded skillset. He is quick and gets more of the ball than the others at VFL level. But he is also a midget. (Chandler is the only one I am really optimistic on at all.)

Laurie has not shown he has the athleticism to be an AFL player and does not find enough of the ball at VFL level. 16 possessions per game and 22 goals in a side that has gone 19-1 when he has played. He was very lucky to get a 2 year contract IMO.

Compare these players to the small forwards in all the other finals teams and they are miles off it.

 

9 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

I think you are very generous on our small forwards (Pickett aside). 

Spargo has great decision making and short kicking but is a midget who offers nothing overhead and he is slow. His lack of speed is a weakness when we get out on the counterattack. 12 possessions per game and 10 goals for the year is pretty ordinary.

Bedford has a good engine and change of pace but is an ordinary kick and also offers nothing overhead.

Chandler is a player with a more rounded skillset. He is quick and gets more of the ball than the others at VFL level. But he is also a midget. (Chandler is the only one I am really optimistic on at all.)

Laurie has not shown he has the athleticism to be an AFL player and does not find enough of the ball at VFL level. 16 possessions per game and 22 goals in a side that has gone 19-1 when he has played. He was very lucky to get a 2 year contract IMO.

Compare these players to the small forwards in all the other finals teams and they are miles off it.

 

Jason Castagna is a triple Premiership small forward.

Brad Close, Gryan Miers, Beau McCreery?

33 minutes ago, old55 said:

Jason Castagna is a triple Premiership small forward.

Brad Close, Gryan Miers, Beau McCreery?

Close has kicked 23 goals and is averaging 15 possessions and 4 tackles this season. He is a decent AFL player and would definitely get a game for us.

McCreery is playing a Melksham role for the Pies. I wouldn't really compare him to the list.

Miers is ordinary but is averaging more goals and possessions than Spargo.

Castagna is quick and able to contest in the air. He kicked 26-27 goals every year from 2017-2019 and could have been a 5-goal grand final hero in 2019! ;-) (He was also playing in a forward line that included Riewoldt, Lynch and Dusty.)

I just think we need to aim higher. The second small forward spot is one of the areas we should look to upgrade to improve our side.

1 hour ago, Fat Tony said:

Spargo has great decision making and short kicking but is a midget who offers nothing overhead...

So I Googled nothing and this came up:

 

Edited September 9, 20222 yr by TRIGON

12 minutes ago, TRIGON said:

So I Googled nothing and this came up:

 

I will pay that! Let's see him do it again tonight!

20 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

Close has kicked 23 goals and is averaging 15 possessions and 4 tackles this season. He is a decent AFL player and would definitely get a game for us.

McCreery is playing a Melksham role for the Pies. I wouldn't really compare him to the list.

Miers is ordinary but is averaging more goals and possessions than Spargo.

Castagna is quick and able to contest in the air. He kicked 26-27 goals every year from 2017-2019 and could have been a 5-goal grand final hero in 2019! ;-) (He was also playing in a forward line that included Riewoldt, Lynch and Dusty.)

I just think we need to aim higher. The second small forward spot is one of the areas we should look to upgrade to improve our side.

I agree, the example names posted all confirmed the point.

@Old55 clearly doesn’t rate any of them and yet they are putting up better numbers than what we have.

I think we need some HFF’s with better skillsets.

Spargo is a good player but is limited by his size and pace, plus a lack of goal scoring and marking power. If he was lightning quick & getting 25 touches a week, he’d be an absolute gun. Likewise if he was 6’-6’2” instead. He is definitely upgradable.

ANB is a great runner and team man, after that he’s got nothing. He’s an over zealous tackler, very slow to get rid of the ball and seems to use soap instead of grippo on his hands. Again, definitely upgradable.

Both of those two are part of the structure and play roles, however we could tip the defensive weight a little more in the positive and it would help considerably.

 

 

On 9/7/2022 at 7:52 PM, Norm Smith's Curse said:

Pls tell me its a forward in the right age bracket :)

 

On 9/7/2022 at 11:31 PM, Older demon said:

Our ruck stocks are thin and have no potential at Casey. Weid has shown he isn't a key forward but has shown he can ruck. Play him there in the last year of his contract.

As for depth look no further than Sydney who has Hayden Mclean 197 cm, Sam Naismith 205 cm, Callum Sinclair 199 cm, Peter Ladhams 202 cm, Sam Reid 196 cm, Tom Hickey 202 cm, Joel Amartey 197 and Lachlan McAndrew 209 cm. it is a veritable land of the giants with 8 players who could lay claim to being a ruckman.

sinclair has retired, naismith hasnt played a game in two years and is likely done at the eos as well, theres no way 34yo hickey moves again and ladhams only just got there. theres no way they let second yearer stretch mcandrew go and you'd think reid sees out his time there. so again its back to mclean or amartey and then it comes down to what does franklin do because if he goes at least one of them becomes required again

19 hours ago, whatwhat say what said:

if - and it's a fairly sizeable if, i would have thought - the tigs can bring in taranto and hopper then they'll have rebuilt their midfield overnight

they're going to be giving up access to first and second round for 2022 and 2023 in order to do so, i would expect

whilst they certainly improve their side, look at tim kelly's move to WCE as a warning to both these blokes, dont join a side after a flag because even though they improve their mids their overall side is getting weaker by the season. wouldnt surprise me at all if they slide out of the 8 next year and then the year after that they woulda lost grimes, cotch, riewodt and its beginning to look quite dire imo

18 hours ago, Nascent said:

I might cop it a bit here but an article today suggested Hunter Clark may be open to a move. Been injury prone but if we back our staff to get him fit he could slot well into the back half for life post Hibberd.

wouldnt say hes been injury prone he had a broken jaw and nose which is just unlucky and shows hes prepared to body line it and a shoulder reco from a similar collision. 

Fremantle looms as an active player in the trade period, with Luke Jackson firmly in their sights, but salary cap pressure has led to several players receiving below market value deals to remain next season and beyond.

“Once Fremantle has played their last game, Rory Lobb, Blake Acres, Griffin Logue and Lloyd Meek are all expected to ask for trades,” he said.  “It’s tight-lipped at the moment because the understanding amongst those players and their agents and Fremantle is, ‘let’s just shut up about it and try and win a semi final, win a prelim, get into a Grand Final and see what can happen then’."

 

Logue, Lobb and Meek departing will deplete the talls on their list.  Jackson may be an in to offset but still a fair dent in one year.

2 hours ago, BW511 said:

I agree, the example names posted all confirmed the point.

@Old55 clearly doesn’t rate any of them and yet they are putting up better numbers than what we have.

I did not say I didn't rate any of them.

@Fat Tony said:

"Compare these players to the small forwards in all the other finals teams and they are miles off it"

That's what I was responding to. Our small forwards are not "miles off" the players I listed

Do Demonlanders see a future premiership 22 which includes all of Gawn, Grundy and Ben Brown? I have my doubts.

I am not even convinced a Gawn and Grundy combo is better than Gawn and TMac, given that one of the two ruckman will be forward for 60% of game time.

Brown is contracted for 2 more years, so unless we are going to consign him to being a back up for the next two years (which would be a waste of a big chunk of salary cap space) I don't understand the club's thinking. Personally, if we are going to recruit Grundy, I would be looking to trade Brown out if we could get another club to pay him.

3 hours ago, Fat Tony said:

Close has kicked 23 goals and is averaging 15 possessions and 4 tackles this season. He is a decent AFL player and would definitely get a game for us.

McCreery is playing a Melksham role for the Pies. I wouldn't really compare him to the list.

Miers is ordinary but is averaging more goals and possessions than Spargo.

Castagna is quick and able to contest in the air. He kicked 26-27 goals every year from 2017-2019 and could have been a 5-goal grand final hero in 2019! ;-) (He was also playing in a forward line that included Riewoldt, Lynch and Dusty.)

I just think we need to aim higher. The second small forward spot is one of the areas we should look to upgrade to improve our side.

Yes but it's not all about the numbers is it. Have a look at Spargo's numbers in our run at the end of last year - small but important:

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pg-melbourne-demons--charlie-spargo?year=2021

13th in last year's BnF in some pretty illustrious company between Dogga and Angus.

Spargo will play 200 games and multiple flags and old mate @picket fence will scream for him to be dropped in multiple posts each week.

If you re-read my original post you'll see I do have Bedford and Chandler as an upgrade on ANB. They're just starting out in the toughest role on the field. Not everyone is Kossie ...

 

Edited September 9, 20222 yr by old55

2 hours ago, Turner said:

whilst they certainly improve their side, look at tim kelly's move to WCE as a warning to both these blokes, dont join a side after a flag because even though they improve their mids their overall side is getting weaker by the season. wouldnt surprise me at all if they slide out of the 8 next year and then the year after that they woulda lost grimes, cotch, riewodt and its beginning to look quite dire imo

Totally agree 'Turner'...they also have Lynch who is very susceptible to injury and Prestia who can't stay on the park.

GWS are a better prospect for finals than the Tiges.

33 minutes ago, old55 said:

Yes but it's not all about the numbers is it. Have a look at Spargo's numbers in our run at the end of last year - small but important:

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pg-melbourne-demons--charlie-spargo?year=2021

13th in last year's BnF in some pretty illustrious company between Dogga and Angus.

Spargo will play 200 games and multiple flags and old mate @picket fence will scream for him to be dropped in multiple posts each week.

If you re-read my original post you'll see I do have Bedford and Chandler as an upgrade on ANB. They're just starting out in the toughest role on the field. Not everyone is Kossie ...

 

I think you are cherry picking Spargo's best patch of football just looking at the end of last year. 18 goals in 25 games for the full season is not a lot in the best team.

Spargo is rated 36th in the AFL for Small Forwards (the filter is General Forwards but I removed mid size forwards like Fritsch) and rated 17th on the Demons list. This seems about right to me.

https://www.statsinsider.com.au/afl/player-ratings

All I am saying is that Spargo plays a role in our side but he is limited and we could add someone who is more dynamic and would make us better. (ANB, who ranks 15th at MFC, is definitely replaceable as well.)

I also think you can find good small forwards later in the draft or by trade. There are a bunch of small forwards rated above Spargo that were acquired very cheaply, including Moore, Papley, Stengle, Willie Rioli, McCarthy, Breust, Nick Martin, Higgins, Ryan, Switkowski, Close, Butler, Schultz, Ginnevan and Lambert. My view is this should be a focus for recruiting.

While we would love a gun key forward or forward/ruck this offseason, we are unlikely to be in a position to draft one with our later picks. (They probably would not fit our premiership window anyway.)

Our list is fine for key defenders, general defenders and midfielders. We could also add another true wingman, but we have not been able to draft one of those in eons.

 

 

Don't disagree that we would like to get more out of our small forwards... but I actually don't think they're doing a heap wrong.  Yes ANB fumbles / makes errors but he runs harder than anyone which is critical to the team defence.

The way we are currently playing (unless centre clearance or on turnover), we move it slow up the wing till it goes out of bounds.  We could have the best small forwards (or tall forwards for that matter) in our forwardline and I don't think the result would be that different.  It's a defensive strategy that is designed to maximise our clearance beasts and ruck dominance.  

I'm just hoping they move the dial slightly more attacking this week (and beyond).  Aside from being better to watch it will bring all our forwards into the game.

From the myheartbeatstrue instagram page:

Melbourne is reportedly among three clubs circling Fremantle ruckman Lloyd Meek

24 years old/203cm/110kg

I like it!

edit. I just found out this isn’t new news. Sorry, I hadn’t heard it

Edited September 9, 20222 yr by Matt

5 hours ago, Matt said:

From the myheartbeatstrue instagram page:

Melbourne is reportedly among three clubs circling Fremantle ruckman Lloyd Meek

24 years old/203cm/110kg

I like it!

edit. I just found out this isn’t new news. Sorry, I hadn’t heard it

That’s ok.

Yeah, head coach of Casey is real excited.

Dees got to look for more skill and speed. 

Too many chances for BBB, Spargo, Melksham, Sparrow and Neal-Bullen. Just footballers.  Gave us nothing for too many weeks.  Our goal scoring covered up by Fritsch and Kozzzy.  Dees need JVR and Tmcd and find another true “goalkicking” forward to at least replace Spargo. 

I would love to see Brown’s last year (surely he won’t make it to the end of his contract with that knee) to be an actual lead up forward. 

That we allow him space in front of him and ball coming toward him in the 50. Instead of our slow, avoid dangerous spot, emptied out forward line where everyone defends in the web.

Make some adjustments and we might see it…

6 minutes ago, rpfc said:

I would love to see Brown’s last year (surely he won’t make it to the end of his contract with that knee) to be an actual lead up forward. 

That we allow him space in front of him and ball coming toward him in the 50. Instead of our slow, avoid dangerous spot, emptied out forward line where everyone defends in the web.

Make some adjustments and we might see it…

Brown is cooked. No way we can win another flag with him in the 22. 

Just now, Fat Tony said:

Brown is cooked. No way we can win another flag with him in the 22. 

That may be. But our role for him and how we moved the footy was the skillet on which he spent his days at the Dees.

8 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

Brown is cooked. No way we can win another flag with him in the 22. 

The best thing that happened to Brown last year was missing a huge chunk of the start of the year.

He might have more in him if he gets the same treatment next year. He really shouldn’t play more than 12 home and away games.