"They Say the Darkest Hour is Right Before the Dawn"

[Rogue 585]

The only decent thing from the OP is that extremism, like asserting that the players and coaches don't care, is ridiculous.

It's a worry if that is worthy of praise, especially considering that the rest of the thread is basically an assertion that 'we're closer to a Premiership than any time in the last 40 years and the list is in good shape' - while writing off anyone who doesn't agree as a total cynic.

The coaches can't coach [...]

The club's last ten years have been its most successful since its last premiership.

Occasionally playing footy you are good enough to challenge for a premiership, most of the time you may not be. I think the list is a lot closer to a premiership now than at any other stage since I first started following football in 1981.

Barely above a 50% w/l record with ten years to mould the players and work on tactics etc suggests that if ND had been Coach of any other AFL club he'd be gone.

I don't think we are much (any?) closer to a premiership now than we were 7 years ago.

You might be right in saying that the last 10 years have been better than the 30 before that, but I think that - if true - it's more of an indictment on the 30 years following our last flag.

They point to a continued lack of leadership, yet ignore both Bruce and Miller have been working their collective arses off to try and lift their team mates.

I'm sure most if not all players are working hard. I imagine that most of the players in the rest of the AFL are too. Miller couldn't make the team last year and simply trying isn't always enough.

I will cheer as loudly as anyone when we win that premiership - and we will, because it won't be a matter of luck, it will be a matter of hard work and determination.

I'm sure every club puts in hard work and is determined - that's simply not enough.

The list is in good shape IMO, and probably the opinion of many others too, but there are those who are willing to believe the worst, because they lack the essence of moderation. It is all or nothing. Players are either stars or duds.

the football department has been negligent in its trading and drafting and the entire culture and ethos of the club tolerates mediocrity and second rate performances.

[...]

I'm not quite sure why people believe that the list is so bad.

Your implication that anyone who doesn't see the list in 'good shape' simply wants to believe the worst is once again uninformed and unfair. I won't go into it in-depth as there are plenty of other threads around but -

Our ruck stocks are alarmingly low, with White in decline and daylight between him and Jamar (and PJ if you think he's a ruck prospect). Neaves is a long way off and is simply potential atm.

We lack key defenders or they're not good enough (eg. Holland, Ferguson). We also lack run off HB, which is part of the reason Ward keeps getting a game despite his disposal problems.

Our midfielders, some of which are quite exciting, lack pace - even if Buckley makes the grade. When it comes to our forward line there's some key position potential, but most are just that (Dunn, Newton, Miller(?) etc). We've struggled to find a CHF since Schwarz retired, and our FF is one of the oldest on the list. Apart from Davey we seem to lack 'crumbing' forwards (ie. Brown playing forward vs Adel last year when Davey was out).

[Jaded No More 68,903]

I love it, Graz!

[brentnall 0]

before the season started l wanted N.D gone.

l did last year and will next year.

l understand about the injurys l just dont like N.D for personal reasons.

l would rather peter rhode then him.

well maybe not.

[Goodvibes 3,596]

Makes me feel like going out and cheering for the boys. When's our next game?

Seriously Graz, who said that all we teachers (or is that ex-teachers?) could do was teach? Great stuff - a brilliant read. To add to your Paul Kelly quotes Melbourne to me is like "The Gift That Keeps Giving". The club owes me nothing. Cheers again.

[DemonDoug 0]

I appreciate your passion and support, but i just cannot be as optimistic after watching this go on for years to the climax it has now reached. I am not being dramatic and I am not venting. I am not some miserable sod who is here to rain on everyone's parade. I am a passionate demon who has spent his life thus far supporting a side that just does not have the goods. Unless there is broad change, I weep for the future and consider it a real possibility that the club will die before holding that cup again.

I have to agree with you, Schtacker, are we serious quoting Winston Churchill !, this is footy, a game, but a lot of people get very passioate about it. But having supported MFC for 38 years I have found the passion being ground down by poor performances time and time again. Name another team which has such dreadful lapses of form, both shocking performances in games and strings of losses together, look at how we have imploded in the last 2 seasons just when the top 4 or end top of ladder was within sight. When we play well everyone is happy but I despair of the way the team plays when things are not going well. Other teams have injuries, that is part of the game. The last game I went to was the Geelong - Melbourne final the year before last. After a heroic last few games to the season we made the finals and I went to that final and after that game I wanted those 3 hours of my life back. They were woeful. And that was a final. I doubt I will attend any games this year.

[DemonDoug 0]

I don't think you'll find that the only thing we yearn for is a Premiership, rather a team performance week-in, week-out that we can be proud of. "Team performance" encompasses everything; effort, work-rate, skills, coaching etc. To put it simply, I would be entirely satisfied if the performances that the MFC put out every week indicated to me that as a Club, they were doing everything in their power to win games of football.

"Hear -hear" totally agree with your sentiments, that is what is missing from the Dee's

[QueenC 74]

The list is in good shape IMO, and probably the opinion of many others too, but there are those who are willing to believe the worst, because they lack the essence of moderation. It is all or nothing. Players are either stars or duds.

Great post Graz and I agree with your sentiments, but this jumped out at me especially.

To me, and I am sure plenty of people here will disagree, the majority of players are neither stars nor duds, they are just players.

Is it important, or wonderful, to have that single element of greatness in your side?

Of course it is, but that still leaves everyone else, and there is plenty of room between the two extremes, and frankly most players fall into that middle ground, some are better than others but it is up to them and the coaching staff to work through their personal shortcomings (which most if not all have, including bouts of poor form and injury) and weaknesses to try and make as valuable a contribution as they can to the side.

But as you say working your ass off for your team, whether successful or not, seems to get a bit lost in the quest for the holy grail, and you are right in saying that if there are blinkers on to everything else besides a Premiership (not denying the frustration of so many years) then you lose a hell of a lot of what actually makes footy great. Don't get me wrong, winning is great and can, as has been said, make or break a weekend, but it is not the only thing.

Which brings me to this.....

I don't think you'll find that the only thing we yearn for is a Premiership, rather a team performance week-in, week-out that we can be proud of. "Team performance" encompasses everything; effort, work-rate, skills, coaching etc. To put it simply, I would be entirely satisfied if the performances that the MFC put out every week indicated to me that as a Club, they were doing everything in their power to win games of football.

Beautifully said CarnTheDees......

You are so right, seeing your team fight tooth and nail as a unit for the same goal is always a great thing to witness. If you still lose then be upset and even angry, but realise that this is sport and there is always a loser (like it or not), it is just that it is easier to deal with a loss if you can see your team scrapping and fighting together, because it gives you a reason to come back the next week to see if the "team performance" will eventually succeed.

I can handle losing, supporting any sports team you have to be able to, but the way the team plays in that loss that should count for something.

Anyway, I would never condemn this team to hell for its start to the season, as bad as it has been......

As the only way is up and hopefully we will see that improvement in all aspects of the game asap.

Just my opinion !!!

[dees64 104]

Mate dot you think its normal to question the players & coach after 10yrs delivering the same outcome????

[Goodvibes 3,596]

I have to agree with you, Schtacker, are we serious quoting Winston Churchill !, this is footy, a game, but a lot of people get very passioate about it. But having supported MFC for 38 years I have found the passion being ground down by poor performances time and time again. Name another team which has such dreadful lapses of form, both shocking performances in games and strings of losses together, look at how we have imploded in the last 2 seasons just when the top 4 or end top of ladder was within sight. When we play well everyone is happy but I despair of the way the team plays when things are not going well. Other teams have injuries, that is part of the game. The last game I went to was the Geelong - Melbourne final the year before last. After a heroic last few games to the season we made the finals and I went to that final and after that game I wanted those 3 hours of my life back. They were woeful. And that was a final. I doubt I will attend any games this year.

Anyone else growing tired of the "I've followed the Demons for X numbers of years and therefore I'm justified in [insert whinge]"

Yes, you might have been teased a little by your mates in the primary school playground when you were the only kid wearing a Melbourne jumper.

Yes, you might have left the MCG feeling deflated after numerous poor performances and jealously observed the smug looks of success worn by our supporting counterparts.

Yes, over the years we've lost more than we've won and you're reminded by your workmates of that very fact every other boody day (certainly on Mondays).

Yes, it would be far easier to follow another team - an Essendon or a Sydney for example.

And yes, getting your hopes up after 6 months of waiting through a pre-season only to be decimated by injury and riddled by poor form is hard to swallow.

But why the hell come on here and whinge and whine about how hard it is being a Melbourne supporter. Haven't you worked it out yet. We're all [censored] Melbourne supporters. We know.

Is the "this club owes me big time for all my support" drivel just an extension of the spirallying society-wide epidemic of feeling sorry for ourselves and expecting someone else to take pity and hand over our just desserts?

This club owes you nothing. Be careful or I'll soon be quoting JFK.

You talk about wanting those 3 hours of your life back after the Melbourne/Geelong final. I felt the same way after reading your self-indulgent crap and that took just a matter of seconds.

I'm definitely going to have to change my username!

[Deemonic 7]

Brilliantly put GoodVibes

[Rolling Stone 157]

and Henry James used it in a book many more years before Dylan. It's an old proverb... I just like Paul Kelly's version.

I don't know where and when Dylan used it but appropriately Mamma Cass sang the words in Dedicated to the One I Love

[phoenix 32]

I doubt I will attend any games this year.

Out of all the gloom and disappointment of this season, finally some good news.

[Finks 19]

You rock Goodvibes!!!

Post #34 is my nomination for best post on Demonland, EVER.

Gold.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Anyone else growing Anyone else growing tired of the "I've followed the Demons for X numbers of years and therefore I'm justified in [insert whinge]"

Yes, you might have been teased a little by your mates in the primary school playground when you were the only kid wearing a Melbourne jumper.

Yes, you might have left the MCG feeling deflated after numerous poor performances and jealously observed the smug looks of success worn by our supporting counterparts.

Yes, over the years we've lost more than we've won and you're reminded by your workmates of that very fact every other boody day (certainly on Mondays).

Yes, it would be far easier to follow another team - an Essendon or a Sydney for example.

And yes, getting your hopes up after 6 months of waiting through a pre-season only to be decimated by injury and riddled by poor form is hard to swallow.

But why the hell come on here and whinge and whine about how hard it is being a Melbourne supporter. Haven't you worked it out yet. We're all [censored] Melbourne supporters. We know.

Is the "this club owes me big time for all my support" drivel just an extension of the spirallying society-wide epidemic of feeling sorry for ourselves and expecting someone else to take pity and hand over our just desserts?

This club owes you nothing. Be careful or I'll soon be quoting JFK.

You talk about wanting those 3 hours of your life back after the Melbourne/Geelong final. I felt the same way after reading your self-indulgent crap and that took just a matter of seconds.

I'm definitely going to have to change my username!

Careful Vibes. That is too much truth for so many experts here

Outstanding post and I look forward to further.

FWIW, I have quoted the whole post because it is worth repeating. As Finks said "Gold".

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Like winning 10 out of 11 games in row last year playing negative football.

More like winning 14 out of 24 games playing negative football.

[diesel 420]

But having supported MFC for 38 years...........

The last game I went to was the Geelong - Melbourne final the year before last. After a heroic last few games to the season we made the finals and I went to that final and after that game I wanted those 3 hours of my life back. They were woeful.

I trust by support you mean you buy a membership. Do you live in Darwin?

I'm sure you can think of endeavours which have been a greater waste of time. And yes they (we) were woeful.

[Demonland 72,155]

THE DARKEST HOUR has now also been posted in our News and Articles Section for easy referernce in the future.

[Gotta be the year 0]

The song you quote is about Donald Bradman isn't it? The only Paul Kelly song that I could draw upon after watching today was "...I've done all the dumb things".

Fair post though.

[grazman 7,432]

The song you quote is about Donald Bradman isn't it? The only Paul Kelly song that I could draw upon after watching today was "...I've done all the dumb things".

Fair post though.

Yep, the one and the same, in reference the 1928/29 season where Australia got pantsed and Bradman was out for 18 and for 1 before being dropped.

[NO MERGER 20]

Brilliant post Grazman. It's only a mattar of time before Melbourne, the sleeping giant wakes...

[GoDs 0]

Grazman and Goodvibes.... My new heroes!

So good to read something other than "ND must Go!"

FWIW I think the team must have read your posts because there was a marked improvement in endeavour last sunday, shame too many supporters didn't bother to show up.

[Jonesy is the next captain 0]

For all the pessimists you need to face reality, no Victorian club has a living prayer of winning the premiership in the next 3 years at least! Melbourne are a great team, for us to be able to kick 13 goals with half the team missing is a victory in itself when Neale Daniher admitted that we would be lucky to kick 8-10. Yes we have been unlucky with injury and sometimes the team just isnt clicking. Neale has done so much for the club its been such an enjoyable time having him there and I hope he continues for some time. Even Sheedy has had to weather the storms thats what makes a great coach. Yes Sheedy has won some premierships but not in the climate the league is in now. So stop bagging the players, stop bagging the coach and let them get on with it, get off ur whingeing asses and go and support them. I was basically sitting on my own in the MCC area last week absolute disgrace

[Goodvibes 3,596]

I'm not really a bumper of posts but my five and half month old daughter is having one of those nights and I've reached the point beyond sleep deprivation.

I'm a poster who seems to post more when we lose than when we win, more when things seem bleak than bright. The evidence lies in the previous 24 - 48 hours. I felt that some posters here needed to re-read this thread. But once I read the thread again myself I started to doubt my own optimism, seeing my current sentiments repeated a few years ago. Could I go back to 1999 or 2001 or any bloody odd year from the early 2000's and find a similiar thread with the same people saying the same upbeat things?

My question is simple, are the optimists on this site, like myself and Graz who started this thread, simply born to do what supporters should innately do and support? Does our natural sense of optimism blind us from the reality of the situation? Or conversely, is our club about to deliver the decade of dominance that our President and team have alluded to over the pre-season and the optimists will, for once, be allowed to revert to teenage form and immaturely say, "I told you so?" Were Fuller, Lover and Churchill truly on the money when they said that "the darkest hour is right before the dawn?" We often hear about false dawns. Are we currently experiencing a false darkest hour and we'll be back here again in a couple of years?

[ICU2 Jerry Jerry 257]

It's bloody Dark now mate! hard to see it getting any darker! So perhaps there is only light left to come

[MO FINE 166]

It was a good post at the time but three years down the track I wonder if it assists the cause of those who claim we're going to improve in the long terms going down the same old well worn path?