CHANGES: Rd 10 vs North Melbourne

[djr 1,558]

20 minutes ago, Deedubs said:

lol lets not exaggerate. He was very close to getting dropped a few weeks ago when the Brown vs TMac vs Weideman started to circulate. 

He kicked 2 on the weekend and 6 possessions against very very weak opposition. 

Your "very very weak opposition" comprised of 12 premiership players including his opponent who is a four time All Australian.

[Deeko2 812]

19 minutes ago, Deedubs said:

lol lets not exaggerate. He was very close to getting dropped a few weeks ago when the Brown vs TMac vs Weideman started to circulate. 

He kicked 2 on the weekend and 6 possessions against very very weak opposition. 

It wasn't his best game but you need to give him a bit of slack.  He does takes the oppositions best defender every week and Tom Barrass is a very good defender.  Then, he had to deal with a mutliple time All-Australian CHB and one of the best interceptors in the game getting in his way.

There's a bit of difference losing some one on one contests there over JVR playing against Marty Hore in the twos.

[Deedubs 157]

12 minutes ago, Deeko2 said:

It wasn't his best game but you need to give him a bit of slack.  He does takes the oppositions best defender every week and Tom Barrass is a very good defender.  Then, he had to deal with a mutliple time All-Australian CHB and one of the best interceptors in the game getting in his way.

There's a bit of difference losing some one on one contests there over JVR playing against Marty Hore in the twos.

Oh, I'm not saying Ben Brown deserves to be dropped or the JVR. You've taken what I've said out of context. I'd just like to use this very  rare opportunity to blood a kid. Otherwise it likely won't be until 2023.

[Pates 9,660]

The only way Brown doesn’t play this week is if he’s injured. He must be priming himself and I would love nothing more than to see him kick a massive bag against North. 

Just a thought could we bring JVR in for Harmes?

Sure whoever comes in must know they are more than likely to only be in for one week. 

[Deeko2 812]

13 minutes ago, Deedubs said:

Oh, I'm not saying Ben Brown deserves to be dropped or the JVR. You've taken what I've said out of context. I'd just like to use this very  rare opportunity to blood a kid. Otherwise it likely won't be until 2023.

Ah, got ya.  Clearly I did as that's exactly what I was thinking!

Still, as much as I love seeing new youngsters in the team, I'm happy we're not going down the path we were 10-15 years back when just a glimpse of something in the twos would see a player get a crack in the ones.

I'll be thrilled when JVR and Laurie get a crack as I have no doubt they'll be good long term players for us but I'm even more thrilled we have the talent (and lack of injuries) in our best 22 keeping them out. 

[deelusions from afar 1,810]

4 hours ago, Demon_spurs said:

Problem is to bring them in for just one week isn't Goody's style, and not really a fair way to judge a debutante 

That's normally true.  But I don't see the harm in saying something like "Well done X, you're making your debut this week.  As you know there's best 22 players due back in the coming weeks so we're not expecting you to stay in the side in the short term.  But you've earnt your place this week - you hit your KPIs and be the best team player you can and who knows where it can lead you.  This is exactly what we told Bowey last year and he hasn't left the team".

I just think its important to keep blooding young players and see how they go.  It's not intended to judge them - we all remember how Petty went in his first game... I'm sure that experience helped him understand the level he had to get to.  Similarly for Sparrow when playing his first games in 2020.

We've got great depth - if not this week, then I don't know when these guys will get a go with a tougher run in the second half of the year.

[Ugottobekidding 1,188]

19 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Laurie has lovely skills and some tricks, but otherwise I’ve seen nothing from him that looks like an AFL ball winner or pressure player. Not to say he won’t get there, but right now he’s still adapting to winning the ball at VFL level and still a few steps off the pace defensively. He cashed in against North in the second half but that’s light years from proper afl level. 

He has cleaner skills, but he’d average 6 touches a game on a flank right now. Bedford might only be 10 touches a game but he’d contribute defensively. Melk, maybe 12 touches and a little overhead ability, iffy defending - still a better package than Laurie. 

I think people are to quick to judge. Spent most of his first season injured and unable to play due to covid ending the vfl season. Will be a good player.

[demon3165 2,724]

31 minutes ago, Deedubs said:

Oh, I'm not saying Ben Brown deserves to be dropped or the JVR. You've taken what I've said out of context. I'd just like to use this very  rare opportunity to blood a kid. Otherwise it likely won't be until 2023.

BB is a lead up forward and one on one in marking contests he is not a pack marker and that's part of our problem we still just bomb it in for periods of the game and that makes it hard for him, as for JVR leave him in the two to develop, lots of good signs in his game but let's face it north we're pretty hopless.

[DeeSpencer 25,719]

36 minutes ago, deelusions from afar said:

That's normally true.  But I don't see the harm in saying something like "Well done X, you're making your debut this week.  As you know there's best 22 players due back in the coming weeks so we're not expecting you to stay in the side in the short term.  But you've earnt your place this week - you hit your KPIs and be the best team player you can and who knows where it can lead you.  This is exactly what we told Bowey last year and he hasn't left the team".

I just think its important to keep blooding young players and see how they go.  It's not intended to judge them - we all remember how Petty went in his first game... I'm sure that experience helped him understand the level he had to get to.  Similarly for Sparrow when playing his first games in 2020.

We've got great depth - if not this week, then I don't know when these guys will get a go with a tougher run in the second half of the year.

Bowey was best on ground in his first VFL practice match and performed well for most of the VFL season. They gave him things to work on and he ticked them off. 

The current crop of youngsters have played 1 good game against absolutely hopeless opposition. It’s unlikely they’ve suddenly ticked off all the things they need to do to play well at VFL week in week out, yet alone prepared for AFL. They all need to show consistently good VFL form, otherwise a debut is a waste of time.

[DeeSpencer 25,719]

23 minutes ago, Ugottobekidding said:

I think people are to quick to judge. Spent most of his first season injured and unable to play due to covid ending the vfl season. Will be a good player.

I’m not saying he won’t be a good player but he doesn’t rack up the ball at VFL level yet and his defensive work for a small forward is miles off the pace. That’s not a combination that is anywhere near an AFL debut if there’s ready to go alternatives like Bedford and Dunstan 

[Deedubs 157]

7 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Bowey was best on ground in his first VFL practice match and performed well for most of the VFL season. They gave him things to work on and he ticked them off. 

The current crop of youngsters have played 1 good game against absolutely hopeless opposition. It’s unlikely they’ve suddenly ticked off all the things they need to do to play well at VFL week in week out, yet alone prepared for AFL. They all need to show consistently good VFL form, otherwise a debut is a waste of time.

 I don't think that there's a pre-requisite to getting into the 1's. Otherwise Mitch Brown would've been in the seniors a long time ago. Mitch Brown should've been given a go a long time before Weideman. And probably before Tom Mcdonald when he was out of form. He is extremely mobile and is a great shot for goal. I think him and Fritsch would've been really dangerous together. 

Nonetheless, I don't think consistent VFL performances really count for all that much. 

Edited May 16, 2022 by Deedubs

[DeeSpencer 25,719]

6 minutes ago, Deedubs said:

 I don't think that there's a pre-requisite to getting into the 1's. Otherwise Mitch Brown would've been in the seniors a long time ago. Mitch Brown should've been given a go a long time before Weideman. And probably before Tom Mcdonald when he was out of form. He is extremely mobile and is a great shot for goal. I think him and Fritsch would've been really dangerous together. 

Nonetheless, I don't think consistent VFL performances really count for all that much. 

Mitch Brown doesn’t get games because he’s inconsistent at the contest and poor defensively. He’s a backup in case of emergency or if needed for a specific role. Even though Weid isn’t quite consistent at VFL level his contested work is stronger, hence why he’s preferred.

Young players will be considered and picked when they demonstrate consistent AFL like efforts not just 1 flashy game. Bedford is now a consistent performer. As is Chandler. They chase, tackle and win the ball. Hence they are next in line. 

JVR played close to a complete game vs North, if he starts to do that regularly against decent opponents he’ll put his name up. Laurie was barely a factor in the game until the last quarter, it wasn’t the kind of performance coaches would be impressed by. 

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,200]

If Harmes is out then I would look to Bedford in with ANB/Sparrow more midfield rotation time.

 

[Deedubs 157]

15 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Mitch Brown doesn’t get games because he’s inconsistent at the contest and poor defensively. He’s a backup in case of emergency or if needed for a specific role. Even though Weid isn’t quite consistent at VFL level his contested work is stronger, hence why he’s preferred.

Young players will be considered and picked when they demonstrate consistent AFL like efforts not just 1 flashy game. Bedford is now a consistent performer. As is Chandler. They chase, tackle and win the ball. Hence they are next in line. 

JVR played close to a complete game vs North, if he starts to do that regularly against decent opponents he’ll put his name up. Laurie was barely a factor in the game until the last quarter, it wasn’t the kind of performance coaches would be impressed by. 

I hear what you're saying but Ben Brown and Tom Mcdonald are horrific defensively. Mitch Brown is a far better player than Weideman who has had a lot more chances. I haven't seen what you've seen of Mitch Brown but the last time Mitch Brown played AFL he played a very serviceable game. 

Edited May 16, 2022 by Deedubs

[Sydney_Demon 1,175]

16 minutes ago, Deedubs said:

I hear what you're saying but Ben Brown and Tom Mcdonald are horrific defensively. Mitch Brown is a far better player than Weideman who has had a lot more chances. I haven't seh en what you've seen of Mitch Brown but the last time Mitch Brown played AFL he played a very serviceable game. 

Don't get me wrong. I quite like Mitch Brown but he's definitely not in our Best 22, unless we have injuries.  I think you're being a bit generous about his past AFL form. He played one game last year from memory, in Round 5 against Hawthorn and kicked 2 goals in a 50 point win. Hawthorn were very poor in the early part of last Season. Mitch Brown had 10 possessions which was OK but I wouldn't describe it as 'very servicable' (TMac had 22 possesions and also kicked 2 goals).

[DeeSpencer 25,719]

38 minutes ago, Deedubs said:

I hear what you're saying but Ben Brown and Tom Mcdonald are horrific defensively. Mitch Brown is a far better player than Weideman who has had a lot more chances. I haven't seen what you've seen of Mitch Brown but the last time Mitch Brown played AFL he played a very serviceable game. 

Tom’s not great but better than horrific defensively. Mitch did nothing for 3/4’s then kicked a couple as the Hawks ran out of legs, it wasn’t anything worth getting excited about. 

[rjay 24,943]

59 minutes ago, Deedubs said:

I hear what you're saying but Ben Brown and Tom Mcdonald are horrific defensively. Mitch Brown is a far better player than Weideman who has had a lot more chances. I haven't seen what you've seen of Mitch Brown but the last time Mitch Brown played AFL he played a very serviceable game. 

It depends what role they have...and what the expectations are.

Both cover a lot of ground and whilst not tackling machines create problems by blocking outlets up the ground.

Their contest in marking or bringing the ball to ground is also critical for us to hit the scoreboard...

[Adam The God 30,271]

21 hours ago, Jaded No More said:

You’d be stupid to risk Harmes off a short break and a long flight against North, when our next month sees us playing Freo, Sydney and Brisbane. 
Playing with fire. 
Wouldn’t be against playing Bedford and pushing ANB further up the ground to cover the Harmes role. Bedford deserves a full game. 
Dunstan doesn’t cover Harmesy’s role for mine. 
 

BBB’s 150th next week… appropriate 👌

If he's not too sore, I'd play him. I reckon they just might. That seems to be the philosophy. 

[dl4e 5,851]

If Salem is ready it would be a good run against North. However it should be like for like with Harmes. Probably Bedford over Dunstan with the latter being 23 man instead of Chandler who was treated disdainfully by the MRO.

[Deedubs 157]

54 minutes ago, rjay said:

It depends what role they have...and what the expectations are.

Both cover a lot of ground and whilst not tackling machines create problems by blocking outlets up the ground.

Their contest in marking or bringing the ball to ground is also critical for us to hit the scoreboard...

if excuses are offered up for these 2 then the same can be excused for Mitch Brown. I'm confident that Mitch Brown would average more goals per game than Weideman and T.Mcdonald.

[rjay 24,943]

2 hours ago, Deedubs said:

if excuses are offered up for these 2 then the same can be excused for Mitch Brown. I'm confident that Mitch Brown would average more goals per game than Weideman and T.Mcdonald.

No excuses are offered...player roles are being discussed.

I wasn't discussing Weid by the way, Ben Brown & Tommy Mac are/were the 2.

Both cover a lot of territory.

[rpfc 28,502]

7 hours ago, Redleg said:

*

 

This sort of thing will always have an asterisk against it I think.

[Fat Tony 5,234]

I know we don’t like resting players but Viney and possibly Lever could do with a rest at some point. Two games on hard surfaces is not ideal and North are awful. 

[Deedubs 157]

39 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

I know we don’t like resting players but Viney and possibly Lever could do with a rest at some point. Two games on hard surfaces is not ideal and North are awful. 

Lever has missed the season with injury. No need for a rest for him.

[hardtack 10,547]

Is it possible that the club is giving us a hint as to who will come in on the weekend?