Bevo unleashes on Tom Morris

[Dees2014 2,377]

No. I was brought up to have far more respect me for women. I suggest you have a close listen to what Morris said on that tape to his mates. There should be no one allowed in responsible journalism with those sorts of attitudes 

[Lord Nev 13,512]

.

Edited March 22, 2022 by Lord Nev

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Dees2014 said:

There should be no one allowed in responsible journalism with those sorts of attitudes 

Sadly, there is and always will be. It’s just that most of them aren’t foolish enough to verbalise their Neanderthal beliefs (even in a ‘private’ chat), nor implicitly trust their knuckle-dragging mates. 
Even sadder is the fact that it’s not just in this industry. It’s in every domain. 

Edited March 22, 2022 by WalkingCivilWar

[DeeZone 9,535]

29 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Sadly, there is and always will be. It’s just that most of them aren’t foolish enough to verbalise their Neanderthal beliefs (even in a ‘private’ chat), nor implicitly trust their knuckle-dragging mates. 
Even sadder is the fact that it’s not just in this industry. It’s in every domain. 

Unfortunately WCW we as a people are still in transition most of us have gradually been re-educated by our more enlightened children and reading and listening to those that have suffered but there are still a lot of people in society that have a long way to go.😪😢

[rjay 24,811]

I'm wondering if/when he's going to apologise.

Bevo read out a statement but has he spoken to Tom and apologised.

If not, then he hasn't apologised at all.

[Sir Why You Little 36,894]

[Lucifers Hero 39,320]

At his press conf this morning:  "...a journalist asked Beveridge if he or the club were aware of Morris’ leaked audio ahead of his press conference outburst, the coach responded: “It’s not going to help. Let’s just move on.” 

Anyone else think that is a way of avoiding saying: 'Yes', he or they new about it.

Full context:  beveridge-speaks-after-round-one-controversy

[Guest]

3 hours ago, DeeZone said:

we as a people are still in transition most of us have gradually been re-educated

On a glass half full day, this is how I see it too, DZ. 

When the glass is half empty I’m angry and frustrated that while progress is defs being made, it’s waaaaay slower than it should be. 

And on a glass totally empty day I think that there’s only three males on the entire planet about whom I can say with 100% confidence are not of this caveman mindset. Those three being the three I gave birth to. Beyond them, can I ever be sure?

 

Incidentally, in one way I feel sorry for girls and young women of today. There always was, still is, and always will be males with this archaic way of thinking. But back in the day, there was no societal pressure on these men. They were free to air their chauvinism as much as they liked. And they did. But at least back then you knew who you were dealing with. These days you don’t know until their mask slips. 

[Lucifers Hero 39,320]

2 hours ago, rjay said:

I'm wondering if/when he's going to apologise.

Bevo read out a statement but has he spoken to Tom and apologised.

If not, then he hasn't apologised at all.

I would say not based on this:  "Asked if he’d since spoken to Morris, Beveridge said: “We’d rather leave it where it is, based on everything that’s happened to him. There’s nothing to be gained by pouring any petrol on what’s already happened.”

Luke-beveridge-press-conference

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

At his press conf this morning:  "...a journalist asked Beveridge if he or the club were aware of Morris’ leaked audio ahead of his press conference outburst, the coach responded: “It’s not going to help. Let’s just move on.” 

Anyone else think that is a way of avoiding saying: 'Yes', he or they new about it.

Full context:  beveridge-speaks-after-round-one-controversy

I think it was merely reinforcement of the fact that he or they knew about it. I’m no psychology expert but I found it patently clear that his wrath at last Wednesday’s presser stemmed from something more sinister than the subject of list change information. 

[Lord Nev 13,512]

14 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

At his press conf this morning:  "...a journalist asked Beveridge if he or the club were aware of Morris’ leaked audio ahead of his press conference outburst, the coach responded: “It’s not going to help. Let’s just move on.” 

Anyone else think that is a way of avoiding saying: 'Yes', he or they new about it.

Full context:  beveridge-speaks-after-round-one-controversy

 

2 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

I think it was merely reinforcement of the fact that he or they knew about it. I’m no psychology expert but I found it patently clear that his wrath at last Wednesday’s presser stemmed from something more sinister than the subject of list change information. 

Would be very surprised if Bevo knew about it beforehand. It surely would have been more public if it had been leaked previously, and IMO was only leaked as 'revenge' for the wack bevo was coping in the media after the round 1 presser.

There have been whispers about discipline issues with his players leading into the season, we've seen an earlier public example already, so IMO it was Bevo going into (over the top) defensive mode about someone digging into selection matters at the Dogs. Not saying Hunter was one of the players with discipline issues, don't know any names, but can imagine Bevo going the offensive knowing there's information leaking if there's a story lingering there.

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, rjay said:

I'm wondering if/when he's going to apologise.

Bevo read out a statement but has he spoken to Tom and apologised.

If not, then he hasn't apologised at all.

Does it really matter, though? People apologise (sincerely or insincerely) to the public and/or the aggrieved all the time. Unless and until the insincere apologies can be distinguished from the sincere ones, apologies don’t really carry any weight. Take Tex Walker’s apology to Robbie Young for example. Some thought it genuine. Some not so much. Only Tex Walker knows whether or not it was truly heartfelt. 

[Lucifers Hero 39,320]

5 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Does it really matter, though? People apologise (sincerely or insincerely) to the public and/or the aggrieved all the time. Unless and until the insincere apologies can be distinguished from the sincere ones, apologies don’t really carry any weight. Take Tex Walker’s apology to Robbie Young for example. Some thought it genuine. Some not so much. Only Tex Walker knows whether or not it was truly heartfelt. 

I think it does matter.   Apologising to the public is one thing, apologising to the person is another.

At least Tex apologised directly Walker who accepted the apology.  It doesn't change the hurt but he did face him.

Beveridge had the opportunity to apologise to Morris before his Statement press conf, before Morris's videos became public. 

Edited March 23, 2022 by Lucifers Hero

[Sir Why You Little 36,894]

There is no way Beveridge knew anything about Tom Morris’ other indiscretions before the Press Conference of last Wednesday night. He just doesn’t want to add anymore to it 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

I think it does matter.   Apologising to the public is one thing, apologising to the person is another.

At least Tex contacted Walker who accepted the apology.  It doesn't change the hurt but he did face him.

Beveridge had the opportunity to apologise to Morris before his Statement press conf, before Morris's videos became public. 

If there’s even the smallest chance of anything less than 100% sincerity, I personally wouldn’t value an apology. 
And in order for an apology to be sincere, the apologiser needs to be sorry, which is the very essence of any apology. And if Bevo isn’t sorry for the outburst then any apology he issues be it public or private, means nothing. In most of these highly publicised instances an apology serves no purpose other than to save one’s career/reputation/ar*se etc.  

[Sir Why You Little 36,894]

17 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

I think it does matter.   Apologising to the public is one thing, apologising to the person is another.

At least Tex apologised directly Walker who accepted the apology.  It doesn't change the hurt but he did face him.

Beveridge had the opportunity to apologise to Morris before his Statement press conf, before Morris's videos became public. 

You have no idea whether Beveridge has contacted Morris privately or not. 
That does not need to be made public.

Morris has lost his career, but that has absolutely nothing to do with Beveridge 

[Neil Crompton 5,428]

IMO, based on the words Bevo used in his attack on Morris, I would very much doubt that he knew of the Morris recordings prior to his outburst. His attack was solely levelled at Morris based on his selection scoop. Look at the descriptions and terms used in this post to describe Morris after the recordings were known. Surely some of those sentiments and labels would have been included in Bevo’s speech if he’d had prior knowledge - but they weren’t. No, I think Bevo’s attack was solely based on Morris embarrassing him and the club, and possibly causing a trust issue between Hunter and Bevo.

 

[Fork 'em 6,982]

1 hour ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

 And on a glass totally empty day I think that there’s only three males on the entire planet about whom I can say with 100% confidence are not of this caveman mindset. Those three being the three I gave birth to. Beyond them, can I ever be sure?

You might not like it and some may deny it but deep down ... We're all cavemen.
Even your sons.

And when we're at the footy watching our warriors do battle.
We're Tribal cavemen 😅

 

Edited March 23, 2022 by Fork 'em

[Guest]

18 hours ago, Dante said:

So you've never said anything in front of, or behind the back, of someone that you regret?

This is partly what I refer to when I talk about nihilism.

No one wishes to be defined by  their lowest moment. I definitely wouldn't want to be. There may be indeed a time for forgiveness for Tom Morris. That clearly is not now as our solidarity should clearly be front and center with Megan Barnard: someone who had their name, basic humanity and identity dragged through the mud. He needs to genuinely reflect and time needs to pass to make this less raw. A lot of water will need to flow under the bridge before that day comes.

This idea that people can only act as isolated units engaged in moral posturing informed by individual interest is an amazingly cynical way to look at the world. The idea that we can't provide moral and verbal support to others from an opposite gender, those of a different nationality, sexual orientation, class background or whatever differing immutable characteristic by no longer condoning what is ethically, morally and societally wrong is the depressing essence of what Thomas Hobbes was getting at. That is that we are all inherently bad, selfish and only the thin veneer of society is stopping us from resorting into animalism.

I reject that way of thinking wholeheartedly.

Is anyone perfect? Goodness me, no. Does that mean we just give up and try not to make things better? That we ultimately fall back into our own tribes and can't empathize with those outside our own direct experience? We can be better and to say that 'injustice for all' is the standard we aspire to is something that we should reject.

 

Edited March 23, 2022 by Colin B. Flaubert
Some of what I was writing was a bit tricky to read.

[Fork 'em 6,982]

5 minutes ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

 Is anyone perfect?  

Lord Nev is.
Pure as the driven snow.
Or so he'll have you believe.

[hemingway 7,615]

1 hour ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Does it really matter, though? People apologise (sincerely or insincerely) to the public and/or the aggrieved all the time. Unless and until the insincere apologies can be distinguished from the sincere ones, apologies don’t really carry any weight. Take Tex Walker’s apology to Robbie Young for example. Some thought it genuine. Some not so much. Only Tex Walker knows whether or not it was truly heartfelt. 

Exactly. 

Once upon a time apologies meant something.

Today, they are a dime a dozen and are simply a way at least at the public level of managing an issue or an indiscretion. Apologise and move-on has become the norm. 

Its better than nothing but in most cases holds little real value. 

As you say, it has to be sincere and also there needs to be serious contrition displayed. Although I don’t think the giver of an apology is going to bother looking up the meaning of contrition. 

Perhaps having a “duel at 20 paces” may bring about change. 

[DeeSpencer 25,365]

19 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

I thought that too until I reflected on his extreme bullying of Morris being out of character (notwithstanding his past sparring with Cornes and Barrett), on his reference to the mental health of staff and players and the impact of the soft cap, that it may have all been a cry for help.  Thankfully help both football and personal is now forthcoming.

He knew he had embarrassed himself, his club and sponsors.  His apology was filmed before a blank sheet, no sponsor logos in sight.  He looked shattered.

Any further punishment by the AFL may not be the best for his well being. 

If he was really struggling to that extent then he shouldn’t be coaching as normal this week.

To me it was the look of someone strong minded who thought they were doing the right thing and suddenly had to come to grips with their actions.

I also don’t think 5k or 10k would make much difference to Bevo’s bottom line, so I’m not too fussed about who paid the fine. He should’ve called Morris directly but Tom quickly had bigger issues and his phone off!

What I’d actually like to see is the AFL and Coaches Association issue a league wide directive that they’re not happy with the state of coaches well-being across the league. In recent years 2 coaches have committed serious criminal acts since coaching. 3 have met premature deaths, whilst not directly related they can’t be entirely ignored. Plenty of broken marriages in not ideal circumstances. Many have flamed out of the industry entirely.

Coaches have easy access to doctors and psychologists. They should all have mentors both inside and outside footy. They should all be given periods of time within the week to be completely uncontactable and unbothered. Plus generous holidays in the off season.

It’s a stressful job with the media out to get them, but coaching should be seen as a long term profession, rather than the focus on afl head coaching jobs. It really shouldn’t be such an unstable and mentally draining profession. 

[TRIGON 4,783]

@Colin B. Flaubert Is anyone perfect?

John Eales?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Eales

Edited March 23, 2022 by TRIGON
Messed up the quote function...proof that I am NOT John Eales.

[Fork 'em 6,982]

10 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

If he was really struggling to that extent then he shouldn’t be coaching as normal this week.

To me it was the look of someone strong minded who thought they were doing the right thing and suddenly had to come to grips with their actions.

I also don’t think 5k or 10k would make much difference to Bevo’s bottom line, so I’m not too fussed about who paid the fine. He should’ve called Morris directly but Tom quickly had bigger issues and his phone off!

What I’d actually like to see is the AFL and Coaches Association issue a league wide directive that they’re not happy with the state of coaches well-being across the league. In recent years 2 coaches have committed serious criminal acts since coaching. 3 have met premature deaths, whilst not directly related they can’t be entirely ignored. Plenty of broken marriages in not ideal circumstances. Many have flamed out of the industry entirely.

Coaches have easy access to doctors and psychologists. They should all have mentors both inside and outside footy. They should all be given periods of time within the week to be completely uncontactable and unbothered. Plus generous holidays in the off season.

It’s a stressful job with the media out to get them, but coaching should be seen as a long term profession, rather than the focus on afl head coaching jobs. It really shouldn’t be such an unstable and mentally draining profession. 

Yeah ... Tough gig.
Especially facing the hounds when ya team spuds it up week after week.
We all remember the look on Goodies face after those games.

[Demonstone 22,182]

I'll openly admit to being a caveman.

It all started a long time ago with his first band The Boys Next Door who became The Birthday Party and then continued on during his solo work and with long time cohorts The Bad Seeds.