I suppose it's a bit like when the rule came in not to move off the mark, after a couple of games no one noticed it. However that AFL article has set up those umpires for ridicule - at what point dont the umpires feel belittled and what happens if "excuse me sir but can I ask a question" is taken as wasting time. This new rule is understandable for obvious aggression towards the umpires but is also too subjective as to what one umpire thinks is "belittling" and another doesn't. 

  On 08/03/2022 at 21:37, jnrmac said:

He has already proved you wrong. He played until round 20 and we did OK.

 I'd prefer other players who have gone past him as footballers who can Defend but thanx Jayden for proving me wrong. 

The aim of the "umpire abuse" thing is to stop the steady trickle (or torrent if you like) of disrespect to umpires lower down the food chain.

The kids are going to copy what they see on TV.

If a player is waving his arms and openly questioning the ump (think Selwood), that sets a bad example.

If a player is clearly mouthing off at the ump (think Riewoldt), same.

If a players if thumping an umpire (Greene), obviously that must be discouraged.

But a player saying "have a look at the replay" ??? He's getting his message across without the optics. The spectators and home viewers don't know what the verbal exchange is, or even if there was one.

I get that for this to work, the initial crackdown has to be hard. But not to the point of preciousness.

Tomlinson getting a 50m penalty against for laughing? Did I actually hear that correct?

Yes he is young and y

  On 06/03/2022 at 01:44, dazzledavey36 said:

What a crap post.

Late last year? He kicked 3 goals in the preliminary final against Geelong and and had a dozen score assists.

He kicked 2 goals in the first final against Brisbane and provided huge amount of forward line pressure.

The final game of the season he had 14 disposals, 4 tackles and kicked 3 goals. He kicked a really important goal in the last term to get our resurgence going for that win.

Not only was he he doing some incredible defensive work off the ball but he was still hitting the scoreboard.

I also found the whole impacting the scoreboard comment boring.. he kicked 40 goals last year playing as a 19 year old small forward in just his 2nd year of AFL. Some of you are seriously outdated with writing kozzie off so early.

His upside is scary.

Pull your finger out DD, i have not written anybody off. He has had a recent streak of poor games and I simply agreed with the post that called it out.  You maybe prepared to accept mediocrity, but i am done with that. If you have a poor game, ok, $h** happens but if you string a few poor games together, then its fair game. 

  On 06/03/2022 at 01:58, leave it to deever said:

Cant wait to follow Kozzie this season.

Has such star potential at such a young age.

A couple of quiet pre season games is nothing.

He's just winding up the spring that propels him; pressure is his mantra, goals are his delight. Receiving on the outside is where he can change a game.

 

Edited March 9, 20223 yr by Deemania since 56

  On 09/03/2022 at 04:31, CYB said:

Yes he is young and y

Pull your finger out DD, i have not written anybody off. He has had a recent streak of poor games and I simply agreed with the post that called it out.  You maybe prepared to accept mediocrity, but i am done with that. If you have a poor game, ok, $h** happens but if you string a few poor games together, then its fair game. 

"Streak of poor games" lol...

Please provide evidence of these string of poor games that you have pointed out. I have already pointed out to you which you have already quoted, above that Kozzie in fact did not have a poor finish to the end of last year which you seem to think he did.

I'll wait..

 

Edited March 9, 20223 yr by dazzledavey36

  On 09/03/2022 at 01:23, dazzledavey36 said:

I'm all for cracking down on umpire abuse, but this is simply not umpire abuse in my books.

 

I'm pretty sure umpire Gavine was the umpire who failed to pay the obvious deliberate free kick against Adelaide in front of the rabid home fans in our match last year.

He has now given a 50m penalty for a player laughing at a replay of a decision - saying that he felt belittled.

I would suggest this umpire needs to work on his strength of character so that he can make the right decisions in the big moments no matter the pressure of the situation and doesn't get offended by a player laughing.

  On 09/03/2022 at 03:43, Pates said:

Tomlinson getting a 50m penalty against for laughing? Did I actually hear that correct?

How about ‘demonstrative childish scoffing?’

  On 09/03/2022 at 04:53, dazzledavey36 said:

"Streak of poor games" lol...

Please provide evidence of these string of poor games that you have pointed out.

I'll wait..

 

Go re-watch the games and look up the stats yourself.. You will see in his last 5 performances, he had one OK game (mind you against an opponent where everybody had a great game).  Compare this with the first half of the season where he couldn't put a foot wrong and you will see i am not being unreasonable in my assessment of his recent form. 

   

 

  On 09/03/2022 at 04:57, Scoop Junior said:

I'm pretty sure umpire Gavine was the umpire who failed to pay the obvious deliberate free kick against Adelaide in front of the rabid home fans in our match last year.

He has now given a 50m penalty for a player laughing at a replay of a decision - saying that he felt belittled.

I would suggest this umpire needs to work on his strength of character so that he can make the right decisions in the big moments no matter the pressure of the situation and doesn't get offended by a player laughing.

Childish maggotry..

  On 09/03/2022 at 01:23, dazzledavey36 said:

I'm all for cracking down on umpire abuse, but this is simply not umpire abuse in my books.

 

 

  On 09/03/2022 at 04:57, Scoop Junior said:

I'm pretty sure umpire Gavine was the umpire who failed to pay the obvious deliberate free kick against Adelaide in front of the rabid home fans in our match last year.

He has now given a 50m penalty for a player laughing at a replay of a decision - saying that he felt belittled.

I would suggest this umpire needs to work on his strength of character so that he can make the right decisions in the big moments no matter the pressure of the situation and doesn't get offended by a player laughing.

This is NOT the way to earn respect from the players - it is just the opposite.  Actually pathetic and this guy can never be respected if he continues this way.    Nobody respects authoritarianism - they may however respect engagement.

Sure - no abuse, but shaking one's head, asking "what for" or laughing in frustration is not abuse.

Edited March 9, 20223 yr by monoccular

  On 09/03/2022 at 05:12, CYB said:

Go re-watch the games and look up the stats yourself.. You will see in his last 5 performances, he had one OK game (mind you against an opponent where everybody had a great game).  Compare this with the first half of the season where he couldn't put a foot wrong and you will see i am not being unreasonable in my assessment of his recent form.

His last 5 performances in 2021...

v Crows - 12 disposals (10 kicks), 4 marks, 1 goal, 5 tackles, 5 score involvements
v Cats - 14 disposals, (12 kicks), 4 marks, 3 goals, 3 tackles, 7 score involvements
v Lions - 7 disposals (6 kicks), 1 mark, 2 goals, 2 tackles, 3 score involvements
v Cats - 13 disposals (9 kicks), 3 marks, 3 goals, 1 tackle, 6 score involvements
v Dogs - 4 disposals (2 kicks), 0 marks, 0 goals, 3 tackles (all inside 50), 1 score involvement

I'm interested as to which 4 games out of those you're classing as poor?

Statistically I guess you could point to the Grand Final as a 'poor game', but his forward pressure as well as his blocking and shepherding were valuable contributions.

If you want to do a purely stat-based comparison to his first 5 games it works out like this (average per game):

First 5
Disposals: 9
Marks: 2
Goals: 1.6
Tackles: 3.6
Score Involvements: 7.4

Last 5
Disposals: 10
Marks: 2.4
Goals: 1.8
Tackles: 2.8
Score Involvements: 4.4

 

  On 09/03/2022 at 06:13, monoccular said:

 

This is NOT the way to earn respect from the players - it is just the opposite.  Actually pathetic and this guy can never be respected if he continues this way.    Nobody respects authoritarianism - they may however respect engagement.

Sure - no abuse, but shaking one's head, asking "what for" or laughing in frustration is not abuse.

Wonder how many games we will get with Razor this year. He knows the difference between abuse and banter.

Just another stat, anyone know in the games we lost last year, did we win the Frees count or not?

  On 09/03/2022 at 01:23, dazzledavey36 said:

I'm all for cracking down on umpire abuse, but this is simply not umpire abuse in my books.

 

I hope I'm not accused of umpire disrespect etc:  I thought the decision was wrong but that umpire opening his mouth like that about it proved he is a fool.

Edited March 9, 20223 yr by sue

  On 09/03/2022 at 06:19, Lord Nev said:

His last 5 performances in 2021...

v Crows - 12 disposals (10 kicks), 4 marks, 1 goal, 5 tackles, 5 score involvements
v Cats - 14 disposals, (12 kicks), 4 marks, 3 goals, 3 tackles, 7 score involvements
v Lions - 7 disposals (6 kicks), 1 mark, 2 goals, 2 tackles, 3 score involvements
v Cats - 13 disposals (9 kicks), 3 marks, 3 goals, 1 tackle, 6 score involvements
v Dogs - 4 disposals (2 kicks), 0 marks, 0 goals, 3 tackles (all inside 50), 1 score involvement

I'm interested as to which 4 games out of those you're classing as poor?

Statistically I guess you could point to the Grand Final as a 'poor game', but his forward pressure as well as his blocking and shepherding were valuable contributions.

If you want to do a purely stat-based comparison to his first 5 games it works out like this (average per game):

First 5
Disposals: 9
Marks: 2
Goals: 1.6
Tackles: 3.6
Score Involvements: 7.4

Last 5
Disposals: 10
Marks: 2.4
Goals: 1.8
Tackles: 2.8
Score Involvements: 4.4

 

That is the last 5 games of 2021. His last 5 games includes the 2 praccy matches this year. It makes quite a difference to your analysis. 

The stat analysis does not always tell the story, but it makes the ability to take out the subjective aspect of any analysis as the non-tangibles can always be adjusted to suit ones own narrative. 

Honestly, i dont understand why people get their knickers in a knot over pointless opinions and feel like they have to judge the quality of ones post. He has had a bad-run of form (according to me), he has upside (i think everyone would agree), time to move on. 

 

 

 

Edited March 9, 20223 yr by CYB

  On 09/03/2022 at 07:11, CYB said:

That is the last 5 games of 2021. His last 5 games includes the 2 praccy matches this year. It makes quite a difference to your analysis.

You want to include praccy matches? Get serious mate.

  

  On 09/03/2022 at 07:11, CYB said:

The stat analysis does not always tell the story, but it makes the ability to take out the subjective aspect of any analysis as the non-tangibles can always be adjusted to suit ones own narrative.

 

  On 09/03/2022 at 05:12, CYB said:

Go re-watch the games and look up the stats yourself..

I literally did, and then you decided stats don't tell the story, but ok...

 

  On 09/03/2022 at 07:19, Lord Nev said:

You want to include praccy matches? Get serious mate.

  

 

I literally did, and then you decided stats don't tell the story, but ok...

 

Check the thread title. 

  On 09/03/2022 at 07:27, CYB said:

Check the thread title. 

Weird, it doesn't say "Kozzy's last 5 games"...

 

  On 09/03/2022 at 05:12, CYB said:

Go re-watch the games and look up the stats yourself.. You will see in his last 5 performances, he had one OK game (mind you against an opponent where everybody had a great game).  Compare this with the first half of the season where he couldn't put a foot wrong and you will see i am not being unreasonable in my assessment of his recent form. 

   

 

  On 09/03/2022 at 07:11, CYB said:

That is the last 5 games of 2021. His last 5 games includes the 2 praccy matches this year. It makes quite a difference to your analysis. 

The stat analysis does not always tell the story, but it makes the ability to take out the subjective aspect of any analysis as the non-tangibles can always be adjusted to suit ones own narrative. 

Honestly, i dont understand why people get their knickers in a knot over pointless opinions and feel like they have to judge the quality of ones post. He has had a bad-run of form (according to me), he has upside (i think everyone would agree), time to move on. 

 

 

 

  On 09/03/2022 at 06:25, sue said:

I hope I'm not accused of umpire disrespect etc:  I thought the decision was wrong but that umpire opening his mouth like that about it proved he is a fool.

Also attributed to Mark Twain

Edited March 9, 20223 yr by monoccular

Just saw some of the highlights again. The Cripps free kick against Petracca was ridiculous ... he slid into the tackle.

And the Cripps goal where he ran 30 metres without bouncing the ball .... WTF ???

 

  On 09/03/2022 at 01:23, dazzledavey36 said:

I'm all for cracking down on umpire abuse, but this is simply not umpire abuse in my books.

 

If anyone here is a South Park fan I challenge them to read his comments in Cartman’s trademark sobbing and complaining. 😂

But honestly that’s how it reads, the sort of thing you’d hear primary school kids say about each other when the teacher then gets them to shake hands and play nice. 

All for trying to reduce umpire abuse and this could well be them going too far the other way in order to get to the right point but jeez it means we’re going to have to put up with some pretty hard to watch matches in the meantime. 

How about instead of immediately paying (super costly) 50m penalties they give warnings, saying “this is your only warning, next time we feel disrespected we’ll pay a 50”? Treat the players with a little understanding and humanity rather than expecting them to be happy they’ve had a free kick paid against them when they got their head taken off (as an example). The umpires have communication between them so they can very easily say to each other “number 13 for Melbourne on an umpire warning”. 

  On 09/03/2022 at 22:33, Pates said:

If anyone here is a South Park fan I challenge them to read his comments in Cartman’s trademark sobbing and complaining. 😂

or…

  On 09/03/2022 at 07:11, CYB said:

That is the last 5 games of 2021. His last 5 games includes the 2 praccy matches this year. It makes quite a difference to your analysis. 

The stat analysis does not always tell the story, but it makes the ability to take out the subjective aspect of any analysis as the non-tangibles can always be adjusted to suit ones own narrative. 

Honestly, i dont understand why people get their knickers in a knot over pointless opinions and feel like they have to judge the quality of ones post. He has had a bad-run of form (according to me), he has upside (i think everyone would agree), time to move on. 

 

 

 

We have thankfully moved beyond the 'how many stats did such and such have' 

Thats why we are a good team

Having sat in the coaches pre-briefings before I can tell you first hand they don't give a tinkers cuss about how many stats you have. They want pressure, team acts, leading to space, spreading a defence, being accountable for your man etc etc most of which you don't get any statistics for.

Its on;y because we now do team things that we have improved out of sight.

A focus on personal stats just shows people don't really understand how good teams operate.