18 minutes ago, McQueen said:

If JVR kicks 3 or 4 goals a week then BBB is depth. 

That would be just fantastic, but hardly realistic for a first year player. 

35 minutes ago, monoccular said:

That would be just fantastic, but hardly realistic for a first year player. 

Runs are on the board so far mate. 

The younger brother is a smooth mover and looks a natural forward, I don’t think he will go late in the draft. 
We can load up on key forwards and backs and trade in a good key position player, later, when we need one. 

Still think Van Rooyen would be a much better defender at AFL level than forward. He’s not quick enough or tall enough or good enough on the ground to be a spearhead but he could be an elite defender like May or Weitering.

1 hour ago, Fat Tony said:

Still think Van Rooyen would be a much better defender at AFL level than forward. He’s not quick enough or tall enough or good enough on the ground to be a spearhead but he could be an elite defender like May or Weitering.

Would be nice to see him tried out there at some point. See what we have.

On 08/10/2021 at 09:39, spirit of norm smith said:

JVR. Good call. It’s a Yes from me. Need to consider key position forwards. He looked like a talent in the WA-SA game. Definitely a good strategy to grab him if available and then be comfortable that he would have at least 2 years development.  I would see him assume the Tmcd role in my view as an agile CHF for 2024.  

Interesting now that JVR seems to have actually gone backwards. Dropped again for the second time in 3 weeks. Not sure how our development program goes.

2022 he looked good as a 19 year old at Casey. The next big thing was being forecast by some.

2023 debut v Swans (just turned 20) … he was very good with 3 goals and big strong marks. The star is born forecasting went into overdrive !! 28 goals (9 behinds)

He was ok in 2024 but his marking was a problem. He failed to grab easy marks. Trampoline hands !! Oven mitts !! But he got 30 goals & still seen as a key forward locked in

Now start of 2025, he couldn’t catch a cold (his inability to mark or hold the footy is really really poor) … oven mitts phrase is now a common comments.

He looks hesitant to lead up. When he does, well yes he has had to wait whilst the midfield overuses or kicks it “on his head” !!

I think JVR is definitely part of our future. He needs guidance. He needs to move more and actually practice practice practice the one grab of the footy. A more accurate delivery from the mids might also help. But now back at Casey, he needs to really re-energise his game. I think he will get there. MFC needs to support him on and off field. He’s a ripping young man and let’s get him back where he belongs

We are ruining his development.

11 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

We are ruining his development.

I think that is possibly true and he may want to leave.

We need to assess our development of younger players.

Just now, Redleg said:

I think that is possibly true and he may want to leave.

We need to assess our development of younger players.

He needs a key forward coach to teach him leading patterns, body positioning etc

We are coaching him to stand still and wrestle his opponent so the midfielders can bomb it on his head, it is moronic.

3 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

He needs a key forward coach to teach him leading patterns, body positioning etc

We are coaching him to stand still and wrestle his opponent so the midfielders can bomb it on his head, it is moronic.

Agree that style is moronic and deflating to a young player.

How hard is it to tell player to lead into space and for the guys with the ball to kick it towards him and let him run onto it.

Edited May 17May 17 by Redleg

Oh and we're also playing him as the lone (undersized) key forward and throwing him in as second ruck then blaming him for loss of form and dropping him to the VFL. He needs to play next to Petty and Melksham/Fritsch for the rest of the season to build some continuity.

13 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

We are ruining his development.

Or he might just not be that talented.

Considering I could give him advice about leading patterns and utilising space and attracting the footy from when I have seen him up close - the current coaches would be fine to talk him through the tape. It’s straightforward ‘forward craft’ that he has not shown much aptitude for…

And we are looking shallower with entries, we are doing better than we have in years with how we look inside the 50. He has to hold up the other end of that bargain - otherwise the mids will fall into bad habits if the options aren’t there.

.

Edited May 17May 17 by rjay

3 minutes ago, rpfc said:

It’s straightforward ‘forward craft’ that he has not shown much aptitude for…

11 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

He needs a key forward coach to teach him leading patterns, body positioning etc

We are coaching him to stand still and wrestle his opponent so the midfielders can bomb it on his head, it is moronic.

Part of that could be on him.

I remember an interview where he said he wasn't a leading type of player.

It rang alarm bells for me then & it's become an issue now.

1 minute ago, rjay said:

Part of that could be on him.

I remember an interview where he said he wasn't a leading type of player.

It rang alarm bells for me then & it's become an issue now.

Which is where development comes in.

Roo wasn't dropped twice in three weeks. He was sent back to Casey to work on aspects of his game and was promoted again due to the loss of Petts and Melky last week. It's also hard to believe that any player at any club hasn't been and isn't constantly provided constructive feedback on what their individual and team objectives are.

6 minutes ago, rpfc said:

Or he might just not be that talented.

Considering I could give him advice about leading patterns and utilising space and attracting the footy from when I have seen him up close - the current coaches would be fine to talk him through the tape. It’s straightforward ‘forward craft’ that he has not shown much aptitude for…

And we are looking shallower with entries, we are doing better than we have in years with how we look inside the 50. He has to hold up the other end of that bargain - otherwise the mids will fall into bad habits if the options aren’t there.

Nah don't buy that, he's already shown he has the tools. It's on the coaches to coach him to use those attributes to get the best out of himself and perform for the team.

2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Which is where development comes in.

You’re assuming we haven’t put the effort in already.

10 minutes ago, rjay said:

Part of that could be on him.

I remember an interview where he said he wasn't a leading type of player.

It rang alarm bells for me then & it's become an issue now.

That can be ok if we have others that are.

6 minutes ago, rpfc said:

You’re assuming we haven’t put the effort in already.

And if we have it's not working.

More of our younger players have gone backwards than improved.

Why is that?

5 minutes ago, rpfc said:

You’re assuming we haven’t put the effort in already.

It's been mentioned on here elsewhere that the forwards have been coached to push back and compete with the defenders rather than leading up to the kicker. If the coaches are telling them to that it's stupid. If the coaches are not telling them to do that and thats how we are playing they are incompetent.

We don't have a proper forwards coach and haven't for I don't know how long. We need an ex-key forward to come down and teach Roo how to play that role. We need to pair him with another key forward so he gains continuity. We need to stop pushing him into 2nd ruck because while it may be the best option for the team right now it is not the best option for his development and the team overall longer term.

He is out of form I'm not denying that but I don't think we've helped him much either. We have lots of players that come in with natural talent and never improve beyond that. That's poor development.

5 minutes ago, rpfc said:

Or he might just not be that talented.

This sounds harsh but is completely fair.

I'm not a huge fan of Goodwin, but I find the idea that he (and our other coaches) simply fail to teach basic things like leading patterns or say "Just stand and wrestle" difficult to believe.

7 minutes ago, rpfc said:

And we are looking shallower with entries, we are doing better than we have in years with how we look inside the 50. He has to hold up the other end of that bargain - otherwise the mids will fall into bad habits if the options aren’t there.

Again, I don't think the gameplan is looking scorching hot at the moment and forward entries aren't exemplary by any means, but I agree with this. We're clearly trying to bomb less and so the importance of getting separation and presenting hard at the ball carrier is more important than before.

It could be that coaches aren't instructing him well enough or it could be that he really struggles with this part of the game. He's clearly a capable player, but being a key forward in the AFL is EXTREMELY difficult. And it's much more difficult when people are looking at you as THE MAN.

He's badly out of form and I think he can get out of that funk. I'm hoping he becomes a solid forward line contributor, ideally when we find a tall to complement him (I like Petty and Turner a lot, but both seem like natural defenders to me). Whatever happens, I'm not expecting him to become a reliable 50-goal-a-season gun.

3 minutes ago, Redleg said:

And if we have it's not working.

More of our younger players have gone backwards than improved.

Why is that?

Jefferson isn’t good enough. Adams a low pick looks not much, Howes looks a battler.

JVR isn’t a natural forward and has stalled as defenders know to stay on his hip and carve him up.

McVee, Bowey and Windsor look great and continue to progress.

Tholstrup has been injured but battled.

Early on the last two. Who else are we talking about? Chandler has gotten better this year.

I don’t think you can make a cogent argument that we are not developing players well enough.

I'm expecting him to find form and finish the year strongly. Development of emerging talent isn't always linear. We've largely been terrible as a team this year, that won't have helped him. He's already shown he has talent over the last 2 years, you don't lose it. What you lose is confidence, that comes and goes. Personally I think the whole club is low on confidence. I think Goodwin, Richardson and several coaches probably need to go at years end. It feels like the time for a change is upon us. That's not a bad thing as long as we make the right decisions on any replacements. Apparently Bartel is coming so I guess he replaces Richardson. That and a few assistants might be all the change we need, time will tell.

6 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

It's been mentioned on here elsewhere that the forwards have been coached to push back and compete with the defenders rather than leading up to the kicker. If the coaches are telling them to that it's stupid. If the coaches are not telling them to do that and thats how we are playing they are incompetent.

We don't have a proper forwards coach and haven't for I don't know how long. We need an ex-key forward to come down and teach Roo how to play that role. We need to pair him with another key forward so he gains continuity. We need to stop pushing him into 2nd ruck because while it may be the best option for the team right now it is not the best option for his development and the team overall longer term.

He is out of form I'm not denying that but I don't think we've helped him much either. We have lots of players that come in with natural talent and never improve beyond that. That's poor development.

Ah we need an ex-forward to coach him…

I don’t know about that ‘direction’ - what I have seen is a forward line that didn’t push up as much as it had in previous years and trying to make the ground bigger when we move out of our backline - completely necessary for getting out of def 50. That isn’t ’stay back and wrestle’ unless you don’t know how to move as a forward. He does not move when the ball is ‘coming down the field’ and only tends to move when he is the next in line to get it - this gives his opponent a free ride to watch the ball and not worry about what our CHF is doing to attract the footy and define and exploit space and make him think twice.

This is something that would be talked through in his first year and he hasn’t got better.

Bring in that former forward to be a specialist if you want but I see it as a waste of money until JVR can show aptitude for basic forward craft.