TEAMS: Rd 23 vs Geelong

[Demons11 6,404]

34 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

No, I’m sure they’d like both. 
But I’m also sure they wouldn’t dismiss the individual awards as being worth “SFA” as you put it. 

Winning a premiership, will result in getting more individual accolades 

[Lord Nev 13,511]

15 minutes ago, binman said:

Yep, that is true.

Which is to be expected given he was playing May's role and was man on man on Himmelburg.

After Himmelburg came off the vison suggest he picked up Thilthorpe.

In that role he got up well the ground, albeit tracking Thilthorpe and the (extended) vison shows him spoiling three times in the first quarter up on our half forward flank. Involvements that do not not get shown on a heat map.

Definitely no run and carry in the first half? I must be seeing things: 

Thirty seconds into the second quarter Smith comes out and spoils an inside 50 aprox 40 metres out from the Crows goal. It spills to Nibbler, who kicks short to Tracc in the centre square.

Smith is running hard forward tracking the ball, which tracc immediately handballs to Spargo, who in turn handballs to Smith.

Smith, who started the chain inside the crows 50 metre, had run hard enough to get in front of the ball when he receives it, despite the ball having been in constant motion, on our half forward flank .

Smith handballs back to Spargo, who kicks it inside 50 to Fritter who then kicks to a Oliver to set up a shot at goal. of course Oliver misses it.

Eddie on the mike: 'there he goes again, Smith has run from run from full back to half forward as the link man'

Mate, I didn't say he never ran forward, I just said he wasn't doing it in the same way/amount as Hunt.

I don't think using Eddie's commentary as a reference gives your argument much credit tbh, and if he was the 'link man' so often then his disposals and heat map would reflect that. They do not.

I thought we were in agreement Smith played May's role? Not sure why you're still pushing this barrow.

For comparison of what I would consider key run and carry stats, here's Hunts season averages for Smith's game:

Disposals: Hunt 14, Smith 9
Inside 50s: Hunt 3, Smith 0
Uncontested Possessions: Hunt 9, Smith 5
Bounces: Hunt 1, Smith 0
Score Involvements: Hunt 3, Smith 1
Metres Gained: Hunt 300, Smith 172

Maybe we move on hey? Somehow we're seeing very different things, or perhaps we're not connecting in what we're trying to say?

Edited August 20, 2021 by Lord Nev

[WalkingCivilWar 33,849]

1 minute ago, Demons11 said:

Winning a premiership, will result in getting more individual accolades 

Not necessarily. But anyways, individual accolades are worthless according to you. 
Look, I want us to win a flag as much as the next person. But that doesn’t mean a Brownlow or AA selection or Rising Star award  should be worth SFA.  Imagine how many worthless Brownlow awards there’d be if the only value they held was when awarded to a player who ends up playing in and winning the GF? Doesn’t happen too often. How did you feel about the Brownlow of 2000?

[binman 39,127]

8 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Mate, I didn't say he never ran forward, I just said he wasn't doing it in the same way/amount as Hunt.

I thought we were in agreement Smith played May's role?

 

You're right Nev, i agree he didn't play Hunts role. 

So lets leave that element

My main point, which i appreciate you don't agree with, is I think Smith will play Hunt's role from here on in.

Perhaps with some tweaks that takes advantage of Smith's skill set - for example picking up a roaming tall like Thilthorpe or Cameron, running off them when he gets a chance and getting across to impact marking contests with his speed and leap.

The example i highlighted of the scoring shot Smith set up is evidence of his ability and willingness to run the lines and play the overlap running role Hunt plays. 

And in any case we will know soon enough what role they are asking Smith to play, so yes, lets move on.

[Lord Nev 13,511]

1 minute ago, binman said:

You're right Nev, i agree he didn't play Hunts role. 

So lets leave that element

My main point, which i appreciate you don't agree with, is I think Smith will play Hunt's role from here on in.

Perhaps with some tweaks that takes advantage of Smith's skill set - for example picking up a roaming tall like Thilthorpe or Cameron, running off them when he gets a chance and getting across to impact marking contests with his speed and leap.

The example i highlighted of the scoring shot Smith set up is evidence of his ability and willingness to run the lines and play the overlap running role Hunt plays. 

And in any case we will know soon enough what role they are asking Smith to play, so yes, lets move on.

Ah yep, I get ya mate! Yeah the future role stuff is all guess work hey? He may very well play the Hunt style role this week, I just personally hope he doesn't due to his disposal. He seemed to have improved slightly in that area at VFL level this year, but just makes me nervous bringing him in for that role in the week before finals.

For mine, May on Hawkins, Petty on Cameron, Smith on Rohan and Lever free to do what he does best seems the way to go, but I'm just another Dees nuffie on the internet with too much time to think about this stuff in lockdown.

Cheers binny!

[Ted Lasso 17,145]

Not too sure on the inclusion of Smith? guessing they have a very specific role in mind for him, but i personally would be going Hibberd, i feel like we've potentially lost a little bit of our rebound through that selection, and given how important it's been for us, i hope whatever they have in mind for Smith helps us. 

[Demons11 6,404]

36 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Not necessarily. But anyways, individual accolades are worthless according to you. 
Look, I want us to win a flag as much as the next person. But that doesn’t mean a Brownlow or AA selection or Rising Star award  should be worth SFA.  Imagine how many worthless Brownlow awards there’d be if the only value they held was when awarded to a player who ends up playing in and winning the GF? Doesn’t happen too often. How did you feel about the Brownlow of 2000?

At what point did I say they were worthless? 

[Willmoy1947 3,815]

3 hours ago, The heart beats true said:

The more I think about the Smith in the more confident I am that this is Goodwin testing the the idea that clubs will go tall against us to counter out intercept marking. We at least have a plan for that, and Geelong is the most likely team to want to try this theory - as their best forward line is tall.

A lot to learn from this weekends game.

He's got Jackson it's up his clacker.......WW2 term.

[Demon17 4,663]

19 hours ago, 1964_2 said:

Bowey plays like a 150 game A grader - nothing to worry about there.

& Smith will have to play well this week to get picked in a final - which would mean 2 good games in a row. 
 

Bowey looks like (watching his interview) that he belongs at home with his Mum he's so young.

But he seems , so far, to look 10 years older on the field in terms of thinking ability, execution, eacts under pressure. Reminds me of James Jordan, who looked from Game 1 against Freo that he can handle the big time and belonged.

I hope he gets back in too.

[WalkingCivilWar 33,849]

41 minutes ago, Demons11 said:

At what point did I say they were worthless? 

It wasn’t you who used the term SFA, it was another poster. My bad, I’m sorry. 🙂

[Demons11 6,404]

4 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

It wasn’t you who used the term SFA, it was another poster. My bad, I’m sorry. 🙂

👍

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,534]

There's been an unexpected outbreak of apologies and pleasantries in this thread.

Most unlike a social network, but welcome nevertheless.

[Maldonboy38 6,034]

If Smith plays on Rohan, I can't see that going well. I simply don't get the Smith love. Rohan is a smart footballer with very very good skills.

The only positive is that Rohan often goes missing in big games and finals, so Smith might actually not have much to do.

 

[Binmans PA 26,523]

36 minutes ago, Maldonboy38 said:

If Smith plays on Rohan, I can't see that going well. I simply don't get the Smith love. Rohan is a smart footballer with very very good skills.

The only positive is that Rohan often goes missing in big games and finals, so Smith might actually not have much to do.

 

I reckon they'll go with Smith on Cameron, Petty on Hawkins (playing off him slightly and intercepting from in front like Sam Taylor did), May on Rohan and Lever on a small. This allows May to peel off Rohan and double team Hawkins if need be, while Lever can float. Geelong may go taller and play someone like Blicavs on Lever as a defensive forward, but that leaves them short in the ruck. That match up will be interesting too.

Having Smith on Cameron will also likely test out Cameron's hammy as the directive will be to rebound off him where possible.

As for the May/Petty, we can always flip that match up if it's not working.

[Jaded No More 59,220]

52 minutes ago, A F said:

I reckon they'll go with Smith on Cameron, Petty on Hawkins (playing off him slightly and intercepting from in front like Sam Taylor did), May on Rohan and Lever on a small. This allows May to peel off Rohan and double team Hawkins if need be, while Lever can float. Geelong may go taller and play someone like Blicavs on Lever as a defensive forward, but that leaves them short in the ruck. That match up will be interesting too.

Having Smith on Cameron will also likely test out Cameron's hammy as the directive will be to rebound off him where possible.

As for the May/Petty, we can always flip that match up if it's not working.

I definitely want to keep May away from Hawkins and his clumsy elbows, but I can’t see how he doesn’t play on him. He’s their best forward by a mile. 

[dworship 3,342]

56 minutes ago, A F said:

I reckon they'll go with Smith on Cameron, Petty on Hawkins (playing off him slightly and intercepting from in front like Sam Taylor did), May on Rohan and Lever on a small. This allows May to peel off Rohan and double team Hawkins if need be, while Lever can float. Geelong may go taller and play someone like Blicavs on Lever as a defensive forward, but that leaves them short in the ruck. That match up will be interesting too.

Having Smith on Cameron will also likely test out Cameron's hammy as the directive will be to rebound off him where possible.

As for the May/Petty, we can always flip that match up if it's not working.

Wonderful analysis AF. There are times where I question why I monitor DL so much and then I see a contribution like this and think, yep. This is the real strategy stuff that Roos mentioned many years ago where he spoke of the fact the Coaches had to fix the non game day stuff before they could deliver the 30% on top that the coaches can add on game day.

Edited August 20, 2021 by dworship

[IRW 1,281]

4 minutes ago, dworship said:

Wonderful analysis AF. There are times where I question why I monitor DL so much and then I see a contribution like this and think, yep. This is the real strategy stuff that Roos mentioned many years ago where he spoke of the fact the Coaches had to fix the non game day stuff before they could deliver the 30% on top that the coaches can add on game day.

Petty on Hawkins?

Smith will play on Rohan 

And May will take Hawkins 

Edited August 20, 2021 by IRW
Addition

[dworship 3,342]

53 minutes ago, IRW said:

Petty on Hawkins?

Smith will play on Rohan 

And May will take Hawkins 

So I suppose you ran out of ideas/thoughts at that point? Who do Petty and Lever take? Or doesn't your "analysis" extend that far?

[Binmans PA 26,523]

2 hours ago, IRW said:

Petty on Hawkins?

Smith will play on Rohan 

And May will take Hawkins 

Sure, I could be wrong. Let's see.

[Binmans PA 26,523]

2 hours ago, Jaded said:

I definitely want to keep May away from Hawkins and his clumsy elbows, but I can’t see how he doesn’t play on him. He’s their best forward by a mile. 

I actually just think Petty is the match up we should go with first for Hawkins.

In defensive 50 ruck situations, I'd make sure Gawn is rucking and then Petty can play goalkeeper. Plus, I don't think Hawkins' opponent should ever ruck him.

But you could be right and May goes to him. Will be a fascinating watch.

[Dees2014 2,377]

7 minutes ago, A F said:

I actually just think Petty is the match up we should go with first for Hawkins.

In defensive 50 ruck situations, I'd make sure Gawn is rucking and then Petty can play goalkeeper. Plus, I don't think Hawkins' opponent should ever ruck him.

But you could be right and May goes to him. Will be a fascinating watch.

I reckon may on Hawkins, Smith on Cameron, Petty on Rohan and Lever floating on small forward, with Smith to run off Cameron to constantly test out his hammy. Looks like a plan!

[Lord Nev 13,511]

3 minutes ago, Dees2014 said:

Petty on Rohan

[Binmans PA 26,523]

51 minutes ago, Dees2014 said:

I reckon may on Hawkins, Smith on Cameron, Petty on Rohan and Lever floating on small forward, with Smith to run off Cameron to constantly test out his hammy. Looks like a plan!

We'll see. When you write it like that, I don't like the Petty to Rohan match up. May has the pace to go with Rohan, is good at ground level and strong in the air. Petty is okay at ground level, but isn't as athletic as May.

[whatwhat say what 19,821]

i'll go:

- petty on hawkins
- smith on cameron
- may on rohan

lever will have a man play on him rather than on a man himself

[rpfc 27,646]

6 hours ago, whatwhat say what said:

i'll go:

lever will have a man play on him rather than on a man himself

Lever with the 4th forward: