MFC player racially abused on social media - club statement

[Lucifers Hero 39,868]

While talking of AFL360.  They asked Petracca (who was on via zoom with Eddie) for comments.  Just loved how he spoke so warmly of sharing house with Kozzie and Bedford and condemned the perpetrators of racism.  Showed real empathy.

While nothing compares to what our indigenous people have to endure, with his name and background I would think Petracca has experienced a bit of racism in his time as well.  

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Seeing Eddie's hurt was distressing and heart breaking.   He looked and sounded near breaking point. 

 Not gonna lie, he had me in tears. Had he been angry or aggressive (which btw would’ve been totally justified) it might have been easier to watch. But to watch a man who is clearly spent is so sad. The attrition has him at a point of exhaustion. That this scourge hasn’t entirely killed his resolve is unbelievable, and testament to the man he is. 

[Webber 10,468]

To the point on anonymity and accountability, I wonder how many on Demonland would willingly be known by their real names, with full disclosure about their personal circumstances …age, gender, occupation, etc? Avatars are fun, but why do we need them?

[Webber 10,468]

2 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

While talking of AFL360.  They asked Petracca (who was on via zoom with Eddie) for comments.  Just loved how he spoke so warmly of sharing house with Kozzie and Bedford and condemned the perpetrators of racism.  Showed real empathy.

While nothing compares to what our indigenous people have to endure, with his name and background I would think Petracca has experienced a bit of racism in his time as well.  

And even seen it perpetrated by his family elders. 

[1964_2 2,357]

Enough is enough. We all need to get better at calling out racism, and educating people!

too many people ignore it, which is part of the problem. Let your friends, family, everyone know it is not acceptable - Ever! 

[Robbie57 2,020]

Seeing Eddie last night confirms just how damaging this is to the victims and its not for them to carry the burden of fighting racism, its for all of us to do so. I would like to see both our club and Adelaide wear their indigenous jumpers this weekend. 

[Lucifers Hero 39,868]

Just now, Webber said:

And even seen it perpetrated by his family elders. 

Do you mean by his family elders or to his family elders.  Not being pedantic but they are quite different.  Its hard to imagine family elders showing racism to their own kind.

[faultydet 7,594]

3 hours ago, rpfc said:

The rise of Trump emboldened supremacists and racists over the globe.

We never dealt with that properly and we condoned it through that silence and now it is a fire out of control.

Some on here think ‘wokeness’ and PC rhetoric are shoved down their throat, well then what is the solution to this? 

If we can’t preach, how will the masses change their behaviour?

Because the olden days of ignoring it and saying to the Eddie Betts of yesteryear “don’t make a thing of it” are over - they are done. They are as mad as hell and not taking it anymore - so what do you want to see happen - if not more ‘woke’ preaching, education in schools, clubs, workplaces, and pushing of the agenda of respect and reconciliation?

What an absolute load of trash.

Leftists ALWAYS smear the leading conservative with cries of "racist" the moment they assume leadership of their party.

It's their "operatus modus" (sic)

 

Cant you lefties leave your politics out of just one thread for goodness sake?

 

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by faultydet

[dpositive 1,665]

Eddie made I believe the most salient point,

"it's up to you guys, the ones watching this the ones sitting on the couch"

Never has this been so simply put. We must all learn about the richness of difference and value and celebrate it not denigrate and ignore it.

i also enjoyed Christians contribution, it comes from living and working with Kosi and Tony. It will provide him with a deeper understanding. 

We can all do better we must all do better

[1964_2 2,357]

2 minutes ago, Robbie57 said:

Seeing Eddie last night confirms just how damaging this is to the victims and its not for them to carry the burden of fighting racism, its for all of us to do so. I would like to see both our club and Adelaide wear their indigenous jumpers this weekend. 

Great idea! 

[1964_2 2,357]

32 minutes ago, faultydet said:

What an absolute load of trash.

Leftists ALWAYS smear the leading conservative with cries of "racist" the moment they assume leader of their party.

It's their "operatus modus" (sic)

 

Cant you lefties leave your politics out of just one thread for goodness sake?

 

 

Disrespectful post.

The point here is addressing the challenge of racism, not politics. 

please be better. 
 

Edited August 11, 2021 by 1964_2

[Dr. Gonzo 24,225]

12 hours ago, praha said:

It's a double edged sword. We obviously need to stamp this out. As someone that works in corporate comms and risk mitigation, social media is a very tough cookie for businesses. There is now legal precedent that a business has a duty of care not only to its employees but also to the general public (ie. if someone says something defamatory about a player on a club's Facebook page, the club itself has a weight of legal responsible, should the player ever hold their own club to account). So there's both a PR benefit but also legal benefit and of course anti-racism benefit in all of this. HOWEVER...

These are anonymous trolls. They are digital arsonists. They post these comments expecting and WANTING this sort of response. We are effectively tisk tisk'ing and shaking our head at ghosts: they will never be found. And it will never stop unless there is legislation banning anonymity online, which opens a whole new can of worms.

So we either ignore and ban the trolls and move on, but open ourselves up to PR, legal, cultural criticism. Or, we call out the troll, tick those boxes, but give the troll what they want.

This is not a battle that will be won. And I feel like we are all shaking our heads and saying "rAciSm iS nEvEr oKaY" but we're not actually fighting any real battle here to stop it. And stuck in the middle are poor kids like Kosi who cop it. Meanwhile we post a nice little statement condemning it and move on.

The real issue here isn't even racism. It's the platform itself. We asked and we received. 

Social media, particularly forums like Twitter and Facebook are, as Obi-Wan said, a hive of scum and villainy.

I agree with you, these trolls are looking for this exact response. Stamping out anonymity online is nice in theory but will never happen. VPN's and other masking software is readily available and will be even more accessible in the future as the generation who grew up with this tech becomes more au fait with it.

Obviously it's easier to condemn people like Taylor Walker and Eddie Betts would no doubt be hurting over that thinking if I can't even get through to this guy who I assume he considers a friend and who he worked besides for many years, what hope do I have?

I think we need to look broader as well - what hope do we have indeed when government policies have been victimising indigenous communities since colonisation? It's a long walk, all we can do is keep fighting the fight and calling it out when it happens but until there is real respect at all levels I think it's pushing [censored] uphill. It's easy to say from a position of privilege but hopefully these guys recognise it for the trolling it is and see that the majority of people side with them in this issue. But it would be hard with the weight of history suggesting otherwise.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Dr. Gonzo

[Webber 10,468]

9 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Do you mean by his family elders or to his family elders.  Not being pedantic but they are quite different.  Its hard to imagine family elders showing racism to their own kind.

“By“ and to others, obviously not ‘their own’. Presuming they were immigrant Italians, they would’ve copped it of course. Being of a certain generation, they most likely gave it as well. 

[Return to Glory 8,442]

12 hours ago, praha said:

It's a double edged sword. We obviously need to stamp this out. As someone that works in corporate comms and risk mitigation, social media is a very tough cookie for businesses. There is now legal precedent that a business has a duty of care not only to its employees but also to the general public (ie. if someone says something defamatory about a player on a club's Facebook page, the club itself has a weight of legal responsible, should the player ever hold their own club to account). So there's both a PR benefit but also legal benefit and of course anti-racism benefit in all of this. HOWEVER...

These are anonymous trolls. They are digital arsonists. They post these comments expecting and WANTING this sort of response. We are effectively tisk tisk'ing and shaking our head at ghosts: they will never be found. And it will never stop unless there is legislation banning anonymity online, which opens a whole new can of worms.

So we either ignore and ban the trolls and move on, but open ourselves up to PR, legal, cultural criticism. Or, we call out the troll, tick those boxes, but give the troll what they want.

This is not a battle that will be won. And I feel like we are all shaking our heads and saying "rAciSm iS nEvEr oKaY" but we're not actually fighting any real battle here to stop it. And stuck in the middle are poor kids like Kosi who cop it. Meanwhile we post a nice little statement condemning it and move on.

The real issue here isn't even racism. It's the platform itself. We asked and we received. 

Praha, this was a bloody interesting read. 

What do you do? How do you 'tackle' a ghost?

I'm not even sure this is relevant, but may speak to the type of knuckle dragger that thinks it's okay - I live on the Mornington Peninsula and occasionally wander down to local games. There are several clubs that appear to turn a blind eye to large groups of mostly middle aged men (I am one and it's just what I have seen) saying whatever they please. Invariably, there's one person who leads the charge of the morons. And it's always in the vicinity where all, including children, can hear. That's the point I guess. The last match involved the calling out of 'your a [censored] 34, a dog [censored]' and various extensions to that repeatedly. Quickly, the atmosphere changes. And they get off on the attention. Their one chance for the week. 

I can't help wondering if some of the social media 'ghosts' are in the crowd at the local grass roots level. And, of course, they may not me which makes these mute. However:

• the reporting of abuse at matches appears to be non - existent or goes nowhere most of the time. I suspect that the pathway to do so is murky and difficult because it is seen as dobbing on your own. So club officials more often duck and dive. There needs to be a clear, consistent manner in which the reporting of abuse can be undertaken.
• the docking of points needs to be a readily available option. Players will soon make it clear to supporters to stfu if their busting their guts and losing out because of loudmouth thugs.
•  the education of coaches as to their role as models of behaviour- I've seen enough local footy to know that a strong coaching team can have a positive impact game day on the supporters of that club. Conversely, I have seen coaches who were thugs with clipboards. If your coach can't control his emotions to an acceptable level (I'm talking about coaches who think it's ok to call the umpire the c word etc) it gives permission to the supporters to also act in this manner.

Ultimately, there will also be a point where young men and women won't want to umpire games of football. Already, at the junior level they can barely find enough umpires. And why would you want to? 

Somewhat of a ramble that strayed. Forgive me.

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by Return to Glory

[Lucifers Hero 39,868]

17 minutes ago, Webber said:

“By“ and to others, obviously not ‘their own’. Presuming they were immigrant Italians, they would’ve copped it of course. Being of a certain generation, they most likely gave it as well. 

This almost makes me cry.  I am Australian born of Italian parents who grew up in an anglo part of Melbourne.  I can't talk to their 'copping it of course' (your words) but I never, ever heard parents or family denigrate any other group, anglo or otherwise.  There was a great deal of mutual respect in the community.  Most of the racism came from school and the schoolyard which sadly is when the damage is inflicted on the very young and the wounds and scars reside to be triggered in the years to come.

Not sure where you get your information from.  Best not to generalise.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Lucifer's Hero

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

 

 

 

Wow, @Colin B. Flaubert! That’s insane! My family used to watch Hey Hey It’s Saturday so it’s highly likely I watched that when it was aired. If not, then similar since that instance is obvs not isolated. I don’t remember ever giving it a second thought at the time. I may’ve even found it funny. I don’t know, I can’t remember. 
I was in my teens at the time and I wondered how today’s teens would react. Then I remembered I have my 16yo son home (remote schooling) so I conducted a little experiment of sorts. Without prefacing it in any way, I showed him that clip. He was utterly shocked and disgusted and stopped watching it before it even finished. 
This is a really positive thing IMO. It shows that while we’re probs still a long way off, there has been significant changes in attitude, at the very least, in the past 30-40 years. 

[roy11 3,854]

5 minutes ago, Webber said:

“By“ and to others, obviously not ‘their own’. Presuming they were immigrant Italians, they would’ve copped it of course. Being of a certain generation, they most likely gave it as well. 

Definitely discriminated against, I know things are different during war time but during WW2 Italian Immigrants in Australia were heavily discriminated against and ~5000 civilians were interned by the government for being "enemy aliens". The treatment lingered and some families took a long time to financially recover etc.

 

21 minutes ago, 1964_2 said:

I would like to see both our club and Adelaide wear their indigenous jumpers this weekend. 

Imagine they clash unfortunately, but could all wear the same shirt before the game and have a big huddle together before the game starts.

 

 

[Smokey 4,389]

28 minutes ago, faultydet said:

What an absolute load of trash.

Leftists ALWAYS smear the leading conservative with cries of "racist" the moment they assume leadership of their party.

It's their "operatus modus" (sic)

 

Cant you lefties leave your politics out of just one thread for goodness sake?

 

 

You are literally the one that brought politics into this. OP referred to an individual, not a political party. 

Further, you regularly politicise discussions around here. Talk about projecting ... 

Edited August 11, 2021 by Smokey

[Webber 10,468]

12 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

It's a long walk, all we can do is keep fighting the fight and calling it out when it happens but until there is real respect at all levels I think it's pushing [censored] uphill

It is getting better though, Dr.G. The current generation of millennials and newer, they  just don’t have the same bigotries. For those I know, gender, race and sexual preference really mean nothing to them in a judgemental or hierarchical sense. It constantly surprises and fills me with hope. And the beauty is, most of it is unconscious, they just live, let live and respect. Growing up in the 70’s in Melbourne, probably then and now this country’s most progressive society, (and excuse my referencing, it’s only for historical context) it was all Wogs, Abos, Chinks, Yugos and so on. We’ve come a long way, and I’m grateful that the kids today truly hold the future. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Webber said:

None of that is deserved. 

Firstly, thank you for sticking up for me, Webber. I’m very grateful as so often people are cowed by the most bombastic and obnoxious voices in conversations like this.

Secondly, @Demonland, @Nasher, or @Grapevineyplease do not close down this thread because ‘people cannot play nice’. The vast majority of posters are arguing in good faith, and as a community, we can come out of this more united, inclusive and progressive as a result.

Do not both sides this because there is only one side hurling epithets at others without provocation. Please deal with them.

Thirdly, I’ve put the quoted poster on ignore because their MO, as well as others, is pretty clear. (Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I struggle to think of any time I’ve actually seen the poster in question in a football related thread). Reacting to them gives oxygen to points that are either redundant or disingenuous, and add nothing to the conversation. However, as their content comes up through quotations*, I feel I must respond.

Their strategy is to obfuscate, pettifog, change the goal posts, and then resort to insults or provocation so it becomes an issue of individual grievances, both sidesism, and etiquette.

The thread gets closed, actual discussion is kyboshed and no closure or consensus is attained.

When that happens, they win.

To make this a brawl between myself and them is doing a dishonor to the structural conversation we are having. This is an issue beyond my ego, pride, personal opinions or reputation. Quite frankly (no pun intended), me also reacting to them plays right into their hands. It’s kind of complimentary as well as they wouldn’t be attacking me personally if they didn’t think what I was saying might resonate with some. Ineffective arguments generally just get ignored.

I view posters on this forum like that, who are becoming less and less brazen since the Walker incident, like Hiroo Onoda, the last Japanese soldier active in WW2 who stayed in the Philippine jungle until 1974. The tide has turned against them and they either never got the memo or refuse to admit it has. 

And that is just pitiable, comical and contemptible all at once.

And as to the question of whether I am pretentious and self-righteous, as the Dude from the Big Lebowski put it:

* Now you know where I stand on ignoring them, please try not to bring up their posts. If they become abusive, report them immediately.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Colin B. Flaubert
Wanted to add some more points

[I'va Worn Smith 973]

33 minutes ago, faultydet said:

What an absolute load of trash.

Leftists ALWAYS smear the leading conservative with cries of "racist" the moment they assume leadership of their party.

It's their "operatus modus" (sic)

 

Cant you lefties leave your politics out of just one thread for goodness sake?

 

 

Why is it that when good people call out racism for what is it is - a blight on our society - people bereft of reasonable debate, use epithets such as "leftists"?  The use of such tags is just lazy and neglects to address the core of endemic racism.

This is not about politics, rather it  is about simply doing what is right.  The number of times I have heard people say; 'I'm not racist, but.....'.  The 'but' shows that such 'emperors' certainly have no clothes.

I remember being at the 'G back in the 90's.  The Cockatoo-Collins boys were playing for us then.  2 female MFC supporters made comments about how they were like the rest of "them" and go 'walkabout'.  I was livid and let them know in no uncertain terms. It would seem not much has improved since then.

As the old saying goes; the standard you walk by, is the standard you accept.  This issue has nothing to do with 'politics', but is has everything to do with doing what is intrinsically the right thing to do.

 

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by I'va Worn Smith

[Webber 10,468]

8 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

  Best not to generalise

Best not to accuse me of generalising, Luci. I’m happy for your experience, would that it weren’t just yours. I have seen racism vocalised by pretty much every culture with which I’ve come into contact, undoubtedly most egregiously and most harmfully by the dominant culture in this country, Anglo-saxon and Celtic. As I said, and have made the point, it’s heftily generational. It is also almost entirely projected onto other minority cultures. Be very very careful not to misrepresent my experiences and attitude.

[Webber 10,468]

16 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Without prefacing it in any way, I showed him that clip. He was utterly shocked and disgusted and stopped watching it before it even finished. 
This is a really positive thing IMO. It shows that while we’re probs still a long way off, there has been significant changes in attitude, at the very least, in the past 30-40 years. 

And there’s the wonderful truth, WCW. 

[sue 9,107]

 

10 minutes ago, I'va Worn Smith said:

...

This is not about politics, rather is is about simply doing what is right.  ....

 

 

But that is exactly is what politics should be about.  I have no problem saying this is a political issue.  

Edited August 11, 2021 by sue

[Lucifers Hero 39,868]

6 minutes ago, Webber said:

Best not to accuse me of generalising, Luci. I’m happy for your experience, would that it weren’t just yours. I have seen racism vocalised by pretty much every culture with which I’ve come into contact, undoubtedly most egregiously and most harmfully by the dominant culture in this country, Anglo-saxon and Celtic. As I said, and have made the point, it’s heftily generational. It is also almost entirely projected onto other minority cultures. Be very very careful not to misrepresent my experiences and attitude.

Projecting your experience onto Petracca's 'family elders' and by implication other Italian immigrants was not appropriate.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Lucifer's Hero