Jump to content

Holding the ball

Wrecker46
Wrecker46
in Melbourne Demons

Featured Replies

Posted

This could potentially be merged with the strategy and all the jazz thread.

Jack Viney previous captain and current vice captain often gets caught holding the ball. So did Jones captain.

I think it is our strategy to cop holding the ball decisions against us because it is often a 50 / 50 decision and if we lose the ball without a free kick slowing the play it can sling shot the opposition's way.

Frustrating to watch but I am happy winning.

  • Quote
    • Like 2
    • Thanks 1
     

    It often more like a 20/80 decision the way holding the ball decisions don't get paid by some umpires.

    Was often a directive of coaches when I played that you are better to hold onto the ball that bit longer, be prepared to get tackled and dispose of it properly to a good option than to panic and just put the next bloke under pressure or turn it over.  I've never really had an issue with it when Jones or Viney get paid holding the ball on that basis alone.   Even in recient times when he wasn't racking up huge possession numbers, it was my observation that Jonesy often used the ball so creatively and setup guys in good space within our forward line that we got very good value out of those possessions, precisely because he didn't just pass the ball on like a hot spud.

  • Quote
    • Like 2
     

    The prob with Viney is not that he tries and take on a tackler, it’s the simple fact that he has had options out in space nearly each time. 
    once out of the centre he has a clean break and could have gone long to our forwards. (Was on his left side too) 

    Another also out of the centre square he burnt Trac or Oliver, to his left.

    Thats the problem. He is not playing team first football. He is playing selfish crap football.

  • Quote
    8 minutes ago, Gorgoroth said:

    The prob with Viney is not that he tries and take on a tackler, it’s the simple fact that he has had options out in space nearly each time. 
    once out of the centre he has a clean break and could have gone long to our forwards. (Was on his left side too) 

    Another also out of the centre square he burnt Trac or Oliver, to his left.

    Thats the problem. He is not playing team first football. He is playing selfish crap football.

    Yes and it is so ingrained that it is almost impossible to change

  • Quote
    • Like 2

    1 hour ago, Gorgoroth said:

    The prob with Viney is not that he tries and take on a tackler, it’s the simple fact that he has had options out in space nearly each time. 
    once out of the centre he has a clean break and could have gone long to our forwards. (Was on his left side too) 

    Another also out of the centre square he burnt Trac or Oliver, to his left.

    Thats the problem. He is not playing team first football. He is playing selfish crap football.

    “Go long to our forwards”? Does that mean, bomb it in to a pack?

  • Quote
    20 minutes ago, Ollie fan said:

    “Go long to our forwards”? Does that mean, bomb it in to a pack?

    Of course it does - in which case from belligerent supporters you're tarred with an inability to 'lower the eyes' or 'spot up someone' . Some supporters want it both ways.

    Whilst I was annoyed at times with the holding the ball and fend off from Viney/Harmes (Vimes? Harney?) duo, they clearly get away with it more than 50% of the time, which is why they keep doing it.

    All players make errors, players that make similar errors (that come over some of the time) look as though they haven't 'learned'. It's more about a risk that hasn't paid off - its not arrogance, thats a misinterpretation. 

    Language around 'burning' or 'torching' players doesn't help either. For each player, it's a decision that is either taken or not taken moment to moment for each player, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't  

    Anyway I'm going to list some errors that players make each game that for me are on a scale of ropeable to mildly amusing

    • bombing into 50... it's only bombing when it doesn't come off.. do you back your tall forward to win the contest?
    • multiple defenders spoiling the ball with no one on the ground and the ball happens to spill over the back.
    • fending off... it's only arrogance when it doesn't come off.. do you back your strength?
    • kicking on the 45...its a decision making error, unless of course it pays off and then it's amazing
    • getting spoilt when attempting a chest mark..just stretch out your arms
    • Ryan Ferguson tunnel ball
  • Quote
    • Like 2
    1 hour ago, Engorged Onion said:

    Anyway I'm going to list some errors that players make each game that for me are on a scale of ropeable to mildly amusing

    • Ryan Ferguson tunnel ball

    That would be Jack Fitzpatrick

  • Quote
    • Like 1
    • Haha 2
     

    That Jones and Viney both have a tendency to get caught HTB is a reflection of where they've come from as players.  

    For a long time Jones was the lone 'star' in our midfield and he developed the tendency to try and do too much.  While it comes from a good place it's ultimately selfish football.  Notice as we got better as a side, Jones worked that habit out of his game.

    Viney is the same, and when is he in average form it creeps back into his game.  

  • Quote
    • Like 1

    4 hours ago, Ollie fan said:

    “Go long to our forwards”? Does that mean, bomb it in to a pack?

    From a fast break from centre bounce means you have ample space to kick the ball to and have the forwards lead to that space.

     

  • Quote
    7 hours ago, Gorgoroth said:

    The prob with Viney is not that he tries and take on a tackler, it’s the simple fact that he has had options out in space nearly each time. 
    once out of the centre he has a clean break and could have gone long to our forwards. (Was on his left side too) 

    Another also out of the centre square he burnt Trac or Oliver, to his left.

    Thats the problem. He is not playing team first football. He is playing selfish crap football.

    He is very much not the Viney of old. He is lacking both form and of course confidence so he is trying too hard I think.

    Needs to quuckly hit a target and not be easy prey to a strong tackle. He cant even break many like he used to.

    I think what we saw from Jack that got him in trouble was pure frustration.

    And I get it. How hard to be your best when your body lets you down for half a season?

    Sad to say but I think JJ is a better option at this point in time.

     

  • Quote
    • Like 2

    The holding the ball/incorrect disposal rule is so confusing and inconsistently applied I have no idea how a coach could explain to any player what they should do once in possession of the ball. 

  • Quote
    • Like 1
    3 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

    He is very much not the Viney of old. He is lacking both form and of course confidence so he is trying too hard I think.

    Needs to quuckly hit a target and not be easy prey to a strong tackle. He cant even break many like he used to.

    I think what we saw from Jack that got him in trouble was pure frustration.

    And I get it. How hard to be your best when your body lets you down for half a season?

    Sad to say but I think JJ is a better option at this point in time.

     

    I think Viney should play defensive half forward with time through the middle. I think he offers a lot defensively which allows Trac and Clarrie to stay more offensive. The prob is that he hurts the team when does what he did last week. But Clarrie and Trac have also done this same thing at times this year. The best way Viney gets into form is by doing the hard 1% stuff. He needs to lead on that side and the rest comes his way off that work.

  • Quote
    • Like 2

    What are the actual stats on Viney and Harmes getting caught holding the ball? Just interested that's all

  • Quote

    2 hours ago, WERRIDEE said:

    What are the actual stats on Viney and Harmes getting caught holding the ball? Just interested that's all

    Viney got caught HTB 5 times on the weekend. 5 times.

    Harmes got done twice.

  • Quote
    • Like 1

    If HTB was the only issue with Jack Viney I’d accept it. He can’t kick it more than 30 metres currently, he’s never been quick but he’s lost all power to go from a standing start, and he doesn’t have enough versatility to play anywhere but as an inside mid.

    To be fair to the guy you would never question his intensity and effort. I just think years of trouble with his feet has finally caught up with him. I hope he can get a clear run at it, because on current form his best attributes can be covered by other players with more dynamic skills.

  • Quote
    • Like 1

    Join the conversation

    You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

    Guest
    Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
    Reply to this topic...
    Go to topic listing

    Featured Content

    • NON-MFC: Round 05

      Gather Round is here, kicking off with a Thursday night blockbuster as Adelaide faces Geelong. The Crows will be out for redemption after a controversial loss last week. Saturday starts with the Magpies taking on the Swans. Collingwood will be eager to cement their spot in the top eight, while Sydney is hot on their heels. In the Barossa Valley, two rising sides go head-to-head in a fascinating battle to prove they're the real deal. Later, Carlton and West Coast face off at Adelaide Oval, both desperate to notch their first win of the season. The action then shifts to Norwood, where the undefeated Lions will aim to keep their streak alive against the Bulldogs. Sunday’s games begin in the Barossa with Richmond up against Fremantle. In Norwood, the Saints will be looking to take a scalp when they come up against the Giants. The round concludes with a fiery rematch of last year's semi-final, as the Hawks seek revenge for their narrow loss to Port Adelaide. Who are you tipping this week and what are the best results for the Demons besides us winning?

      • 3 replies
      Demonland
      Demonland

    • CASEY: Geelong

      There was a time in the second quarter of the game at the Cattery on Friday afternoon when the Casey Demons threatened to take the game apart against the Cats. The Demons had been well on top early but were struggling to convert their ascendancy over the ground until Tom Fullarton’s burst of three goals in the space of eight minutes on the way to a five goal haul and his best game for the club since arriving from Brisbane at the end of 2023. He was leading, marking and otherwise giving his opponents a merry dance as Casey grabbed a three goal lead in the blink of an eye. Fullarton has now kicked ten goals in Casey’s three matches and, with Melbourne’s forward conversion woes, he is definitely in with a chance to get his first game with the club in next week’s Gather Round in Adelaide. Despite the tall forward’s efforts - he finished with 19 disposals and eight marks and had four hit outs as back up to Will Verrall in the second half - it wasn’t enough as Geelong reigned in the lead through persistent attacks and eventually clawed their way to the lead early in the last and held it till they achieved the end aim of victory.

      • 0 replies
      Demonland
      Demonland

    • REPORT: Geelong

      I was disappointed to hear Goody say at his post match presser after the team’s 39 point defeat against Geelong that "we're getting high quality entry, just poor execution" because Melbourne’s problems extend far beyond that after its 0 - 4 start to the 2025 football season. There are clearly problems with poor execution, some of which were evident well before the current season and were in play when the Demons met the Cats in early May last year and beat them in a near top-of-the-table clash that saw both sides sitting comfortably in the top four after round eight. Since that game, the Demons’ performances have been positively Third World with only five wins in 19 games with a no longer majestic midfield and a dysfunctional forward line that has become too easy for opposing coaches to counter. This is an area of their game that is currently being played out as if they were all completely panic-stricken.

        • Thanks
        • Like
      • 0 replies
      Demonland
      Demonland

    • PREGAME: Essendon

      Facing the very real and daunting prospect of starting the season with five straight losses, the Demons head to South Australia for the annual Gather Round, where they’ll take on the Bombers in search of their first win of the year. Who comes in, and who comes out?

        • Thanks
      • 209 replies
      Demonland
      Demonland

    • NON-MFC: Round 04

      Round 4 kicks off with a blockbuster on Thursday night as traditional rivals Collingwood and Carlton clash at the MCG, with the Magpies looking to assert themselves as early-season contenders and the Blues seeking their first win of the season. Saturday opens with Gold Coast hosting Adelaide, a key test for the Suns as they aim to back up their big win last week, while the Crows will be looking to keep their perfect record intact. Reigning wooden spooners Richmond have the daunting task of facing reigning premiers Brisbane at the ‘G and the Lions will be eager to reaffirm their premiership credentials after a patchy start. Saturday night sees North Melbourne take on Sydney at Marvel Stadium, with the Swans looking to build on their first win of the season last week against a rebuilding Roos outfit. Sunday’s action begins with GWS hosting West Coast at ENGIE Stadium, a game that could get ugly very early for the visitors. Port Adelaide vs St Kilda at Adelaide Oval looms as a interesting clash, with both clubs form being very hard to read. The round wraps up with Fremantle taking on the Western Bulldogs at Optus Stadium in what could be a fierce contest between two sides with top-eight ambitions. Who are you tipping this week and what are the best results for the Demons besides us winning?

        • Thanks
      • 273 replies
      Demonland
      Demonland

    • PODCAST: Geelong

      The Demonland Podcast will air LIVE on Monday, 7th April @ the all new time of 8:00pm. Join Binman, George & I as we dissect another Demons loss at Kardinia Park to the Cats in the Round 04. Your questions and comments are a huge part of our podcast so please post anything you want to ask or say below and we'll give you a shout out on the show. If you would like to leave us a voicemail please call 03 9016 3666 and don't worry no body answers so you don't have to talk to a human.

        • Thanks
      • 56 replies
      Demonland
      Demonland
    View All