2 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Pressure has been given a numeric rating for both the team and individual players. It therefore follows that something quantitative is being measured which translates either directly or indirectly into "pressure". What exactly is used to measure pressure? 

Pressure is captured by champion data using a 6 tiered pressure rating applied to each opposition disposal:

0) No pressure - Most often after an opposition mark

1) No pressure but in open play, ie a fast break on the wing with no opposition within 15 meters

2a) Corralling pressure - guarding their immediate space but not coming at them

2b) Closing pressure - In their face and closing in on them but front on

2c) Chasing pressure - Influencing the disposal/decision to dispose of the ball through chasing pressure from behind

3) Physical pressure - bumping, tackling or pushing the player as the disposal is made. 

It is a significant red alert when our pressure is down, and comes down to a combination of fatigue and will. I'm sure Goodwin is bringing this up in team meetings and I expect a response on Thursday night. 

Edited July 7, 20213 yr by RedFox

Just now, RedFox said:

Pressure is captured by champion data using a 5 tiered pressure rating applied to each opposition disposal:

0) No pressure (most often after an opposition mark)

2a) Corralling pressure - guarding their immediate space but not coming at them

2b) Closing pressure - In their face and closing in on them but front on

2c) Chasing pressure - Influencing the disposal/decision to dispose of the ball through chasing pressure from behind)

3) Physical pressure - bumping, tackling or pushing the player as the disposal is made. 

It is a significant red alert when our pressure is down, and comes down to a combination of fatigue and will. I'm sure Goodwin is bringing this up in team meetings and I expect a response on Thursday night. 

Thanks @RedFox - can this be pinned to the top of the thread??

5 minutes ago, RedFox said:

Pressure is captured by champion data using a 6 tiered pressure rating applied to each opposition disposal:

0) No pressure - Most often after an opposition mark

1) No pressure but in open play, ie a fast break on the wing with no opposition within 15 meters

2a) Corralling pressure - guarding their immediate space but not coming at them

2b) Closing pressure - In their face and closing in on them but front on

2c) Chasing pressure - Influencing the disposal/decision to dispose of the ball through chasing pressure from behind

3) Physical pressure - bumping, tackling or pushing the player as the disposal is made. 

It is a significant red alert when our pressure is down, and comes down to a combination of fatigue and will. I'm sure Goodwin is bringing this up in team meetings and I expect a response on Thursday night. 

Thanks RedFox. To clarify are you saying that 1 point is given for no pressure but in open play; 2 points is given for each incident of corralling pressure, closing pressure and chasing pressure and 3 points is given for providing physical pressure?

Just now, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Thanks RedFox. To clarify are you saying that 1 point is given for no pressure but in open play; 2 points is given for each incident of corralling pressure, closing pressure and chasing pressure and 3 points is given for providing physical pressure?

Correct. 

2 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Most of us can see when the team is not switched on in the first few minutes of a game. Very frustrating

We know when the team pressure is off and they are not working hard enough. It was clear against Collingwood, the Giants, and North.

Well here is. What most if us intuitively know:

From Pure Footy:

Aside from an alarming drop in scoring in recent weeks, Melbourne also has an issue when it doesn’t have the ball.

“In the first 10 weeks of the year Melbourne was the No.1 rated pressure team in the competition, they were flying,” Hoyne said.

“Since then their pressure has dropped to 14th.”

James Jordon’s pressure point are down from 63 to 29 per game, while James Harmes, Charlie Spargo, Christian Salem, Clayton Oliver and Kysaiah Pickett have also dropped their pressure significantly in that time.

 

Quote: "James Jordon’s pressure point are down from 63 to 29 per game"

This might be because his role has changed rather than fatigue. Earlier in the season he was an on-baller; in the last week or two he has spent more time on the wing.

It's hard to just switch being the "The Hunter" on again.  Some have probably unconsciously slowly let this part of their game slip / ebb away since the game against the Crows.  Probably thinking we could coast along and still win comfortably.

Well unfortunately the above, some significant personnel / form / connection and cohesion issues up forward plus some woeful delivery with ball in hand coming inside (and or no serious tall deepish target to bail out to last week), has seen us drop some games we never should have dropped.  The result against the Crows was a coin flip.  Had the intentional been paid who knows.

However, the way we lost to the Pies and GWS was much more of a worry IMV.  Let's hope the FD / coaches have really gotten down and dirty on these two awful performances and have started to address the ugly aspects creeping in.  Make no mistake, this is partly due to the above and as Jnr has so nicely highlighted, a pressure issue, but 50% or so is also purely above the shoulders.

Tomorrow night will be a genuine indicator of how far this team has come in terms of maturity and getting down and dirty for a win against the odds on the road against a quality gritty opponent who never take a backward step.

The bell will either be ringing or we will know we are back on Tracc once more and still eyeing a place in the top two.

Edited July 7, 20213 yr by Rusty Nails

1 hour ago, Sydee said:

Agree with that Bin - what's happening with the spelling there today ??

Fatigue

2 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

1st to 14th is a huge drop

It’s a different side since the Adelaide game. There is time to restructure, but it is a lot of hard work

Opposition Clubs have broken down our structure and worked it out

I'd say the last 3 games.

We were poor against the Crows for sure, but we were at our peak against Bullies and Lions the following weeks.

We can turn this around. Your last sentence is very true. We have a good midfield that other clubs have developed strategies to minimise our clearance outcomes. I have no doubt Goodwin, Ooze and Choco will be going hard at this.

Ben Brown is an excellent inclusion. Increase clearances, lower the eyes into the 50 and kick straighter. Please god kick straighter!

6 minutes ago, Stiff Arm said:

I'd say the last 3 games.

We were poor against the Crows for sure, but we were at our peak against Bullies and Lions the following weeks.

We can turn this around. Your last sentence is very true. We have a good midfield that other clubs have developed strategies to minimise our clearance outcomes. I have no doubt Goodwin, Ooze and Choco will be going hard at this.

Ben Brown is an excellent inclusion. Increase clearances, lower the eyes into the 50 and kick straighter. Please god kick straighter!

We did play well against the Dogs, but we did have an empty Stadium. 
that was a massive help as an away game. 
Brisvegas we played a good (excellent half) but we are always slow out of the blocks. 
We must get this right. 
No good being 6 goals down in the first half in a Final, when we know what our potential is. 
We have to bring that for the entire game

17 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

We did play well against the Dogs, but we did have an empty Stadium. 
that was a massive help as an away game. 
Brisvegas we played a good (excellent half) but we are always slow out of the blocks. 
We must get this right. 
No good being 6 goals down in the first half in a Final, when we know what our potential is. 
We have to bring that for the entire game

Sure, but they were both very good wins. 

While we weren't playing at our peak, its worth remembering that had we nailed a couple of [censored] house shots at goal vs GWS we would've won. Similar had the umpires not made 2 horrendous decisions in the last 2 mins vs Crows. 'Coulda, shoulda, woulda', and not making excuses, but goes to show the game can turn on a few small improvements.

We definitely need to work on our effectiveness out of the centre. 

Edited July 7, 20213 yr by Stiff Arm

2 hours ago, binman said:

If you apply Occam's razor to the question of why our pressure has dropped of, the answer i come up with is that we are fatigued.

We play a very taxing game that is very tiring. And it is logical pressure falls away when the team is fatigued.

I reject the idea it is something as vague as a lack of effort. They might be mentally tired, but I don't reckon that is a huge factor.

To me the real question is why are we fatigued?

We have a number of young players. It is the point of the season that all teams start feeling fatigued, particularly younger teams. 

But again I suspect we are doing extra training loads and that is a big factor.

I hope you are right Bin.

But it means we've been in the heavy training period for 6 weeks or more. That sounds like we went quite early.

34 minutes ago, Stiff Arm said:

Sure, but they were both very good wins. 

While we weren't playing at our peak, its worth remembering that had we nailed a couple of [censored] house shots at goal vs GWS we would've won. Similar had the umpires not made 2 horrendous decisions in the last 2 mins vs Crows. 'Coulda, shoulda, woulda', and not making excuses, but goes to show the game can turn on a few small improvements.

We definitely need to work on our effectiveness out of the centre. 

Those clutch shots against GW$ shouldn’t have been misses, that is the point.

But they were, and we lost a home game against a soulless franchise 

Good Team do not let that happen 

14 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Those clutch shots against GW$ shouldn’t have been misses, that is the point.

But they were, and we lost a home game against a soulless franchise 

Good Team do not let that happen 

Guess that makes Richmond a bad team?

1 hour ago, titan_uranus said:

Guess that makes Richmond a bad team?

3 Flags under the belt

not in the same ball park. We are yet to achieve anything 

3 simple ways to increase pressure:

- kick straighter (scoreboard pressure, also no way we can win 3 finals if this doesn’t improve), also we win Giants & Crows game

- run & chase, we didn’t raise a gallop against Pies for 90% of the game, not great against Giants in this area

- go hard, VDB & Viney when playing well, generate pressure and make players worry, can see difference Mumford makes to Giants!

One other factor is over the season all teams have off games, so you drop the odd game! 1st to 14th is a concerning stat, needs to lift.

However I’ll take a 5-10% increase in accuracy first! I think playing BBB will help and also have a positive influence on other players re kicking for goal. Why, poor goal kicking seems to accelerate with each missed shot and having a dead eye  who slots a few under pressure will help stop the pressure building.

Edited July 7, 20213 yr by D4Life
Added extra point

This is the reason why we are also struggling to score. Not getting the easy opportunities that come from turnovers driven by intense pressure being applied. 

It's up to the players now. They've seen what can happen when you commit to pressuring your opponents. But it's not going to be easy to maintain it...will take some sacrifice and competitive spirit and pride from the playing group. History says they'll put it in the too hard basket and give it up. Let's see what this group is made of.

14 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Those clutch shots against GW$ shouldn’t have been misses, that is the point.

But they were, and we lost a home game against a soulless franchise 

Good Team do not let that happen 

It's so frustrating, watching the replay I reckon if Petracca nails that gimme shot a few minutes into the 3rd we win. He cannot miss shots like that from 35m out dead in front.

Great thread @jnrmac its been quite noticeable that our pressure around the contest and in the forward line has dropped off markedly since the Lions game. Lack of pressure around the contest means we are playing from our back half and lack of pressure in our forward half means easy exits from our F50 and not getting those forward half turnovers that create scoring opportunities.

The hope obviously is that Brown straightens us up, we start winning clearances/contests and Spargo, Kozzy & ANB (with help from Viney, Langdon, Gus etc) regain their earlier form pressure opposition defense.

15 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Those clutch shots against GW$ shouldn’t have been misses, that is the point.

But they were, and we lost a home game against a soulless franchise 

Good Team do not let that happen 

I often wonder what the 'S' in GWS stands for. Thanks for clearing that up.

18 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Quote: "James Jordon’s pressure point are down from 63 to 29 per game"

This might be because his role has changed rather than fatigue. Earlier in the season he was an on-baller; in the last week or two he has spent more time on the wing.

Maybe. Perhaps if you could compare Langdon and Brayshaws pressure points (which I don't have access to) that might tell the tale. It seems to me the whole team has dropped off.

 

Intuitively if one part (say midfield) drops off then it affects everybody. Its all in or nothing

15 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

3 Flags under the belt

not in the same ball park. We are yet to achieve anything 

Richmond lost to Fremantle at the MCG in 2017, before they'd achieved anything.

They followed that up the next week with a loss to the same "soulless franchise" you're now complaining about.

25 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Richmond lost to Fremantle at the MCG in 2017, before they'd achieved anything.

They followed that up the next week with a loss to the same "soulless franchise" you're now complaining about.

And i bet they were [censored] off about it at the time

Nobody takes much notice of GW$ wins, they are just irksome 

1 minute ago, Sir Why You Little said:

And i bet they were [censored] off about it at the time

Nobody takes much notice of GW$ wins, they are just irksome 

And then they went on to win the premiership.

Which is my point.

Good teams lose to bad teams from time to time.

Just now, titan_uranus said:

And then they went on to win the premiership.

Which is my point.

Good teams lose to bad teams from time to time.

Yes I know they do. But we do it regularly and have done for years

Losing last week in front of a Melbourne Crowd at home was inexcusable 

They were not mentally prepared as a team until 3/4 time

7 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Yes I know they do. But we do it regularly and have done for years

Losing last week in front of a Melbourne Crowd at home was inexcusable 

They were not mentally prepared as a team until 3/4 time

At the time Richmond lost to Fremantle in 2017 they hadn't won a final for 16 years.

9 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

And then they went on to win the premiership.

Which is my point.

Good teams lose to bad teams from time to time.

The Richmond comparison is a good one too, becuase our game styles are so  similar and it is a game style that is simply impossible to maintain every game thought 23 round home and away season.