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COVID & AFL 2021

Demonland
in Melbourne Demons

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14 hours ago, bing181 said:

Sure, but this seems to be based on taking a quote from the Chair of the South African Medical Association out of context: she was specifically referring to younger people with no underlying health conditions, and specifically warned that it could hit people who are older/at risk much harder.

If you are talking about Dr Angelique Coetzee I can't find anything that she has said other than Omicron having mild symptoms and different symptoms to Delta

Can you provide a link to back up what else she might have said (specifically older/at risk people)

Edited by Macca

    • Like 1
     
    14 hours ago, binman said:

    Beware coastworth's agenda i reckon

    So what might be Dr Coatsworth's agenda?

    I might add that we are still dealing with a number of unknowns with regards to Omicron so any definitive comment could be questioned

    But when the word 'if' is used that's not definitive.  Dr Coatsworth used the word 'if' when he made his comment of if Omicrom may only have mild symptoms

    Edited by Macca

    • Like 2
     
    1 hour ago, Macca said:

    If you are talking about Dr Angelique Coetzee I can't find anything that she has said other than Omicron having mild symptoms and different symptoms to Delta

    Can you provide a link to back up what else she might have said (specifically older/at risk people)

    Hey Macca

     

    I've heard the comments from Coetzee about it having mild symptoms thus far, but I noticed both the Commonwealth CHO and Norman Swan warning that that may just be because most of the results have come from South Africa, which has a very young population. Let's just wait a few weeks then hopefully we'll know more.   

    12 hours ago, daisycutter said:

    from where i sit a qualified health officer gets my attention before an internet random

    not in any way taking his comment as the last word on the matter either.  he did preface his comment with "if it's mild"

    Totally agree. 

    And there is no doubting Coatsworth's qualifications, experience and expertise. He knows his stuff.

    Beware was probably the wrong word.

    Aware of a possible agenda would have been a better way of phrasing it. 

    For what it's worth, i think Coatsworth has helped create some really interesting discussion through the pandemic - in particular about the pros and cons of the so called covid zero approach and the best approach with children. The other thing he was strong on was pushing back on the critique of Astra Zeneca, and as it turned out, rightly warning of the impact on take up and vax rates.

    On these points Dr Nick has very clear opinions and has argued strongly, and not unpersuasively, for them.

    But this is what I mean by being aware of a possible agenda - his comments in the media often, seems to be focused on advancing his arguments and position.   

    Which is fine - but personally i think it is an important filter to apply to his comments.

    In this context, when i read his commentary, i also note he is an opinion writer for the Fairfax news group, and i presume (but don't know for sure) is paid for comment.

    This, Fairfax, article, gives a good summary of Coatsworth's position on key Covid policies - and some of the critique he has received.

    To be clear, i reckon it is important to be mindful of possible agendas of all experts regularly making comments about covid (or any public policy for that matter) in the media, particularly those that are likely being paid for comment.  Catherine Bennet is a good example. 

     

    • Like 2

    20 minutes ago, Jara said:

    Hey Macca

     

    I've heard the comments from Coetzee about it having mild symptoms thus far, but I noticed both the Commonwealth CHO and Norman Swan warning that that may just be because most of the results have come from South Africa, which has a very young population. Let's just wait a few weeks then hopefully we'll know more.   

    Posting up links or quotes from those who lean either way on where covid is going is relatively harmless anyway

    Some offer some hope, others offer caution and others still, offer nothing but doom & gloom

    There's not too many pollyanna's re covid though so any hope given could be welcomed with a cautious approach by those with hope in their hearts

    Caution & hope is my view as well as dealing with harsh realities

    I'm certainly no expert but isn't it a fait accompli that even if Omicron replaces Delta (or becomes the dominant variant) that Omicron will be replaced by another variant sooner or later? 

    • Like 2
    26 minutes ago, binman said:

    To be clear, i reckon it is important to be mindful of possible agendas of all experts regularly making comments about covid (or any public policy for that matter) in the media, particularly those that are likely being paid for comment.  Catherine Bennet is a good example. 

     

    In the context of your post, I can't work out whether you're praising or criticising Catherine Bennett. In some respects, the ambiguity of your line reminds me of a comment in the media back in the day when Joh Bjelke-Petersen was Queensland's Premier. The article stated that Queensland had Australia's best gerrymander...and that Western Australia had Australia's worst.

    • Haha 1
     
    22 minutes ago, binman said:

    Totally agree. 

    And there is no doubting Coatsworth's qualifications, experience and expertise. He knows his stuff.

    Beware was probably the wrong word.

    Aware of a possible agenda would have been a better way of phrasing it. 

    For what it's worth, i think Coatsworth has helped create some really interesting discussion through the pandemic - in particular about the pros and cons of the so called covid zero approach and the best approach with children. The other thing he was strong on was pushing back on the critique of Astra Zeneca, and as it turned out, rightly warning of the impact on take up and vax rates.

    On these points Dr Nick has very clear opinions and has argued strongly, and not unpersuasively, for them.

    But this is what I mean by being aware of a possible agenda - his comments in the media often, seems to be focused on advancing his arguments and position.   

    Which is fine - but personally i think it is an important filter to apply to his comments.

    In this context, when i read his commentary, i also note he is an opinion writer for the Fairfax news group, and i presume (but don't know for sure) is paid for comment.

    This, Fairfax, article, gives a good summary of Coatsworth's position on key Covid policies - and some of the critique he has received.

    To be clear, i reckon it is important to be mindful of possible agendas of all experts regularly making comments about covid (or any public policy for that matter) in the media, particularly those that are likely being paid for comment.  Catherine Bennet is a good example. 

     

    @binman the biggest payee over covid seems to be pfizer. They now have booster shots and antibodies under clinical trials that seem to get rushed through. They are making lots of money over this pandemic.

    When asked for evidence of their effacy it's not so rushed, they need to take their time.

    I'm double vaxxed with Pfizer in retrospect I should have got AZ. You only need to look at the death rates in Europe to see why. Britain who gave AZ to over 65's and the rest of Europe who didn't (I'm not over 65)

    9 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

    In the context of your post, I can't work out whether you're praising or criticising Catherine Bennett.  

    Neither. 

    I meant that when i read comments from Catherine Bennett, i apply the agenda filter too.

     

    • Like 1

    5 hours ago, Kent said:

    and does so every year

    At least there is less vaccine resistance where the flu and pneumonia are concerned.

    42 minutes ago, Wrecker46 said:

    I'm double vaxxed with Pfizer in retrospect I should have got AZ. You only need to look at the death rates in Europe to see why. Britain who gave AZ to over 65's and the rest of Europe who didn't (I'm not over 65)

    Also, I believe that AZ has been a not for profit arrangement, although it appears now that they are moving towards small profits while keeping the vaccine affordable:

    https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/astrazeneca-makes-over-1-bln-q3-vaccine-sales-small-profit-2021-11-12/

    • Like 2
    18 minutes ago, Dante said:

     

    Hope he gets better, I like Dima and he's had a tough time over the last couple of years.

    AFL news: Paul Dimattina in intensive care after reacting to Covid booster shot | news.com.au — Australia’s leading news site

    This will encourage those not Vaccinated to remain that way, not good.

    From that article.......

    There is the possibility that Dimattina’s pre-existing health conditions contributed to his reaction to the booster shot, as myasthenia gravis causes muscle weakness and has an effect on the nervous system.

    However, it remains unclear exactly what the decisive factor — the Pfizer booster, the treatment for myasthenia gravis, Covid or an undisclosed condition — was that led Dimattina to be placed into intensive care.

    • Like 1
    1 hour ago, Dante said:

     

    Hope he gets better, I like Dima and he's had a tough time over the last couple of years.

    AFL news: Paul Dimattina in intensive care after reacting to Covid booster shot | news.com.au — Australia’s leading news site

    This will encourage those not Vaccinated to remain that way, not good.

    “I got sick from the booster. Oh and by the way I just realised I have covid”. Really?! 😒 I really doubt it was the booster alone (most likely just coincidental timing) that put him in ICU.

    This has no relevance to your average punter who doesn’t have his medical history/current covid infection and is irresponsible journalism given there is more questions than answers about what has happened to him.

    • Like 1

    45 minutes ago, godees said:

    “I got sick from the booster. Oh and by the way I just realised I have covid”. Really?! 😒 I really doubt it was the booster alone (most likely just coincidental timing) that put him in ICU.

    This has no relevance to your average punter who doesn’t have his medical history/current covid infection and is irresponsible journalism given there is more questions than answers about what has happened to him.

    I'm not prepared to speculate what went wrong, because I don't know.

    • Like 2
    2 minutes ago, Dante said:

    I'm not prepared to speculate what went wrong, because I don't know.

    Pity more people do not take that attitude. So far the info from Africa is all on a very small base number of cases. What we don’t know about Omicron would fill the bay at this point. Christmas time might give us some info we can work with. 

    8 hours ago, Macca said:

    If you are talking about Dr Angelique Coetzee I can't find anything that she has said other than Omicron having mild symptoms and different symptoms to Delta

    Can you provide a link to back up what else she might have said (specifically older/at risk people)

    Yes, the Coetzee Telegraph interview.

    “What we have to worry about now is that when older, unvaccinated people are infected with the new variant, and if they are not vaccinated, we are going to see many people with a severe [form of the] disease,” she said."

    It seems that others there are even more concerned, e.g. "omicron’s speed in infecting young South Africans has alarmed health professionals."

    "Worried scientists in South Africa are scrambling to combat the lightning spread across the country of the new and highly transmissible omicron COVID-19 variant as the world grapples with its emergence."

    https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/covid-variant-threat-worldwide-scramble-81417682

     

    9 hours ago, Wrecker46 said:

    1 - red herring doesn't need to be capitalised

    Exactly.

    Think think think.

    Can't be bothered with the rest.

    5 minutes ago, bing181 said:

    Yes, the Coetzee Telegraph interview.

    “What we have to worry about now is that when older, unvaccinated people are infected with the new variant, and if they are not vaccinated, we are going to see many people with a severe [form of the] disease,” she said."

    It seems that others there are even more concerned, e.g. "omicron’s speed in infecting young South Africans has alarmed health professionals."

    "Worried scientists in South Africa are scrambling to combat the lightning spread across the country of the new and highly transmissible omicron COVID-19 variant as the world grapples with its emergence."

    https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/covid-variant-threat-worldwide-scramble-81417682

     

    Fair enough but your original post referred to older/at risk getting hit harder but not specifying vaccinated or unvaccinated

    Coetzee is saying that older 'Unvaccinated' people infected with the new variant is an issue but isn't that what most health professionals are saying about the Delta variant with regards to the elderly or those at risk?

    It stands to reason that any of the unvaccinated elderly wouldn't want to get any version of covid.  Same as these vulnerable people wouldn't want to contract influenza or any other debilitating diseases

    The biggest issue in South Africa is their low vaccination rates against covid.  45 million of 59 million aren't double vaccinated


    The patients Coetzee observed the milder symptoms in were relatively young and healthy. She didn’t know what impact the new strain would have on older or people with co-morbidities (as she didn’t have such patients). Until the impact on such people is known she said it’s not possible to tell whether this strain is less lethal.

    20 minutes ago, BDA said:

    The patients Coetzee observed the milder symptoms in were relatively young and healthy. She didn’t know what impact the new strain would have on older or people with co-morbidities (as she didn’t have such patients). Until the impact on such people is known she said it’s not possible to tell whether this strain is less lethal.

    And now we are seeing reports of younger people in South Africa being impacted more (health wise) by this new variant ... and the amount of those being infected rising dramatically. 

    But again, South Africa has a very low vaccination rate in comparison to many European countries and the like

    As 'old dee' said in a post earlier, we may need until Christmas to see a clearer picture of the impact of Omicron

    All we have now are snippets of opinions without anything definitive.

    However, The World Health Organisation is using very strong language such as describing Omicron as a 'very high global risk' ... more contageous/more debilitating? 

     

    Edited by Macca

    10 minutes ago, Macca said:

    And now we are seeing reports of younger people in South Africa being impacted more (health wise) by this new variant ... and the amount of those being infected rising dramatically. 

    But again, South Africa has a very low vaccination rate in comparison to many European countries and the like

    As 'old dee' said in a post earlier, we may need until Christmas to see a clearer picture of the impact of Omicron

    All we have now are snippets of opinions without anything definitive.

    However, The World Health Organisation is using very strong language such as describing Omicron as a 'very high global risk' ... more contageous/more debilitating? 

     

    Agree. Too early to tell

    • Like 1
     
    4 minutes ago, BDA said:

    Agree. Too early to tell

    Donald Rumsfeld would even have trouble spelling out an overview of covid (and all the variants)

     

    39 minutes ago, Macca said:

    Donald Rumsfeld would even have trouble spelling out an overview of covid (and all the variants)

     

    I think he would say that at this point Omicron is a known unknown

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