Dees Reviewing Senior Footy Department Positions

[deanox 10,052]

20 minutes ago, bing181 said:

We're not shareholders and we're not investing, we're buying memberships (a product).

That's not quite true. We are members, which is effectively the NFP/imcorporated associations version of shareholders.

In a for profit company, you buy shares in a company that's purpose is "for profit" so you joib up for that same purpose.

With a NFP company, you join as a member with the purpose of pursuing the aims of the organisation (competing in and winning football matches).

[Diamond_Jim 12,718]

22 minutes ago, deanox said:

That's not quite true. We are members, which is effectively the NFP/imcorporated associations version of shareholders.

In a for profit company, you buy shares in a company that's purpose is "for profit" so you joib up for that same purpose.

With a NFP company, you join as a member with the purpose of pursuing the aims of the organisation (competing in and winning football matches).

A piece of trivia...One of the leading cases on the old form of many clubs then known as unincorporated associations involved the Carlton Football club and the enforceability of a lease to the old Fitzroy football club. Some of the clubs were companies limited by guarantee. Then you had the wonderful incorporation of unincorporated associations act.

The quirk I always loved was the golf clubs with the declining members that then allowed the few to sell off the clubs land for a fortune and pocket the money. (In the case of MFC I don't think that's open to us desperate members.)

[Jaded No More 68,976]

2 hours ago, deanox said:

That's not quite true. We are members, which is effectively the NFP/imcorporated associations version of shareholders.

In a for profit company, you buy shares in a company that's purpose is "for profit" so you joib up for that same purpose.

With a NFP company, you join as a member with the purpose of pursuing the aims of the organisation (competing in and winning football matches).

Correct. The club is not selling a product. It’s selling a shared purposed. We are investing to see success like people invest to see profits. When there is no return on investment people stop financially backing an Organisation.

 

When you think about who the club is accountable to, it is to its members. Nobody at AFL house cares if we win or lose, so long as we aren’t a financial burden on the competition. The only people who are looking at the performance of the club every year before deciding to keep it afloat with memberships and attendance, is, the supporters. 

Edited October 11, 2020 by Jaded

[bing181 9,436]

4 hours ago, deanox said:

With a NFP company, you join as a member with the purpose of pursuing the aims of the organisation (competing in and winning football matches).

I don't believe that "winning football matches" or any performance-related objective appears anywhere in the club's statutes or constitution.

[bing181 9,436]

2 hours ago, Jaded said:

We are investing to see success like people invest to see profits.

If we assume that what you mean by "success" is on-field success, we clearly are not. If that were the case, then clubs with the biggest "investment" (= most members) would consistently have on-field success, and vice versa. You only have to look at the teams in the 8 this year to see that that's demonstrably untrue.

[deanox 10,052]

8 hours ago, bing181 said:

I don't believe that "winning football matches" or any performance-related objective appears anywhere in the club's statutes or constitution.

I understand the constitution includes an objective to maintain a team of footballers that compete in the AFL and any other competition as deemed relevant by the directors.

To me the word compete implies trying to win matches. If winning was part of it, the constitution could instead state our objective was to simply "field" a side.

I do think its fair to say that our objective is not to win matches, but it is to attempt to win them.

 

That is probably semantics, but you started it!

Edited October 11, 2020 by deanox

[old dee 24,028]

Three weeks after sending a message to Mr. Bartlett I received the below reply. 
It would seem that there has been a lot of comments from members.  
 

“Thank you for your email, which has been forwarded to Glen Bartlett for you.

 

Given the amount of correspondence Glen has received, it may not be possible for him to reply personally to each and every message.

 

We thank you for your ongoing support, we truly appreciate it.“

Edited October 11, 2020 by old dee

[bing181 9,436]

9 hours ago, deanox said:

To me the word compete implies trying to win matches.

That's a low bar. I'm sure that those small country teams that lose every match by 10 goals or more are "trying to win matches".

What spelt the downfall of Fitzroy wasn't that they were uncompetitive, but that they went into administration.

[Demons3031 375]

20 hours ago, Jaded said:

Correct. The club is not selling a product. It’s selling a shared purposed. We are investing to see success like people invest to see profits. When there is no return on investment people stop financially backing an Organisation.

 

When you think about who the club is accountable to, it is to its members. Nobody at AFL house cares if we win or lose, so long as we aren’t a financial burden on the competition. The only people who are looking at the performance of the club every year before deciding to keep it afloat with memberships and attendance, is, the supporters. 

Maybe the word "stakeholders" might hit the mark.

 

[trout 385]

On 10/12/2020 at 9:53 AM, old dee said:

Three weeks after sending a message to Mr. Bartlett I received the below reply. 
It would seem that there has been a lot of comments from members.  
 

“Thank you for your email, which has been forwarded to Glen Bartlett for you.

 

Given the amount of correspondence Glen has received, it may not be possible for him to reply personally to each and every message.

 

We thank you for your ongoing support, we truly appreciate it.“

Well your one step in front of me old dee, I haven’t received anything like that yet and I think I sent my letter off a couple of days after you. 

I hope the review is completed soon. I for one am very uneasy that where coming into one of the most important trade / draft periods in my time following the club and where potentially got people who have been making poor decisions still there.

 

[Biffen 12,949]

I've heard rumours Simon Goodwin might be willing to coach next year. 

[old dee 24,028]

7 minutes ago, Biffen said:

I've heard rumours Simon Goodwin might be willing to coach next year. 

For North? You beauty!!!

[Hogan2014 390]

3 hours ago, Biffen said:

I've heard rumours Simon Goodwin might be willing to coach next year. 

Yze will be our next coach 

[Ted Lasso 19,564]

Alan Richardson is of interest for North for their top job, not sure if he'd be the front runner but they're keen to speak to him. 

I'm not sure if Richo is keen to be a senior coach again. 

Ross Lyon is also someone they want to speak to, but i don't think he'd want to go to them 

[Hogan2014 390]

1 minute ago, Patches O’houlihan said:

Alan Richardson is of interest for North for their top job, not sure if he'd be the front runner but they're keen to speak to him. 

I'm not sure if Richo is keen to be a senior coach again. 

Ross Lyon is also someone they want to speak to, but i don't think he'd want to go to them 

Please take Richardson 

[Ted Lasso 19,564]

Just now, Hogan2014 said:

Please take Richardson 

I feel for richo. i would definitely ask people to consider the drastically improved backline system we've had this year, i think Richo has had a huge amount to do with that, and some of our players improved form. 

It's so difficult to gauge the influence of an assistant but i think Richo has made a big difference to our club this year. 

[Hogan2014 390]

9 minutes ago, Patches O’houlihan said:

I feel for richo. i would definitely ask people to consider the drastically improved backline system we've had this year, i think Richo has had a huge amount to do with that, and some of our players improved form. 

It's so difficult to gauge the influence of an assistant but i think Richo has made a big difference to our club this year. 

Hope so 

[Sir Why You Little 37,341]

14 hours ago, Patches O’houlihan said:

I feel for richo. i would definitely ask people to consider the drastically improved backline system we've had this year, i think Richo has had a huge amount to do with that, and some of our players improved form. 

It's so difficult to gauge the influence of an assistant but i think Richo has made a big difference to our club this year. 

I agree. I don’t think Richardson is a problem at all

 

[Wells 11 5,476]

8 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I agree. I don’t think Richardson is a problem at all

 

Not on his own...no. But something just feels wrong looking inside the coaches box doesnt it? 

[Sir Why You Little 37,341]

16 minutes ago, Wells 11 said:

Not on his own...no. But something just feels wrong looking inside the coaches box doesnt it? 

That was there a long time before Richardson arrived Greg

[Lucifers Hero 40,555]

4 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

That was there a long time before Richardson arrived Greg

Very true.  But in his role to develop (assistant) coaches and mentor to Goodwin wouldn't it be in his remit to remedy any issues in the box?  If not him. who?

Edited October 17, 2020 by Lucifer's Hero

[Sir Why You Little 37,341]

6 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Very true.  But in his role to develop (assistant) coaches and mentor to Goodwin wouldn't it be in his remit to remedy any issues in the box?  If not him. who?

Who knows? Maybe he is trying hard to do that. Goodwin has to be reciprocal for any plan to work. 
i think Richo is an excellent Assistant Coach, Goodwin has one more year to prove he is a good Senior Coach

His last Press Conference he said he wanted a Key Forward 

Get Ben Brown

[Lucifers Hero 40,555]

1 minute ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Who knows? Maybe he is trying hard to do that. Goodwin has to be reciprocal for any plan to work.

One wonders why Goodwin got a mentor if he isn't going to reciprocate or participate in a plan to make it work. 

[BDA 23,031]

This review is taking a while. Our season finished 4 weeks ago. Not much noise either. Surely if Mahoney was being let go it would have been announced by now. Plus trade period is rapidly approaching.

Adem Yze is a great additional but we need more. I guess now that Port are out we can talk to Voss so hopefully there’ll be developments there.

[Witches Hat 494]

14 minutes ago, Better days ahead said:

This review is taking a while. Our season finished 4 weeks ago. Not much noise either. Surely if Mahoney was being let go it would have been announced by now. Plus trade period is rapidly approaching.

Adem Yze is a great additional but we need more. I guess now that Port are out we can talk to Voss so hopefully there’ll be developments there.

Apparently North are keen to chat to Voss about the top job so you'd think that would be his first port of call (apologies for the Port pun, blame lockdown fatigue).