42 minutes ago, Skuit said:

I completely agree with you Adam and have wondered if the Viney thing is at the real heart of Oliver's alleged disgruntlement (Melksham also finished 12th and captained the club for a day which is highly aggravating - and it seems clear to me that they've consistently put a high bar in front of Oliver, but perhaps rightly so?). But I don't think you should be so harsh on Jack based on one media report. Not sugar-coating it - it read poorly - but don't ever trust the media in terms of selecting quotes to fit a narrative. I think I'm one of the good guys, but still do it all the time myself in my reporting. 

I think it's more complicated than that.

43 minutes ago, A F said:

It wasn't directed at you mate. It was directed at half the posts on Clarry this season and since the season finished.

I don't particularly care how the coaches voted in the BnF. It was as clear as day that Oliver was our second or third best player by some margin and well ahead of Viney. Jack then has the arrogance to come out and say the midfield plays selfishly, but seems to excuse himself, easily our most selfish mid.

If we lose Oliver and keep Jack, our club is going nowhere.

I have no idea whether or not Oliver is disgruntled. But I have to completely agree with you here AF. That B & F result smacks of our coaches viewing games through some kind of distorted reality. And if the coaches can get something so wrong, I'm in turn worried about their ability to make good decisions.

18 minutes ago, Skuit said:

I imagine a lot of older frustrated fans are seriously looking for a reason to if not exactly give up on the club entirely but at least care less about the MFC and football in general (i.e. paying membership) - then the loss of our great white hope (extra white) will be a major trigger in my mind according to personal perspective. The best thing to happen to this club in more than a decade. Get it sorted. Make it public. Sign a five-year deal and expect that back in membership 1000-fold. 

I've said this so many times now, but I've only been alive 33 years. He's the best player we've ever had in that time. The club needs to sort it out asap and pay him what he wants. If we lose him, we're stuffed.

As for new memberships, my read on some of the supporter base is they completely underrate and undervalue him, and it's clear that the coaches do too.

14 minutes ago, Return to Glory said:

I have no idea whether or not Oliver is disgruntled. But I have to completely agree with you here AF. That B & F result smacks of our coaches viewing games through some kind of distorted reality. And if the coaches can get something so wrong, I'm in turn worried about their ability to make good decisions.

I want them all cleared out. Turns out Goodwin will stay, but if he doesn't get this team playing well early next year he should get the axe. I'm sick of the under performance (sure, let's contribute some of that to the age profile of the list), but now that our better players are getting restless, I've very little tolerance for slip ups from here. If Pert wants to keep his job much past 2021, he'll have the same attitude.

Edited October 16, 20204 yr by A F

10 minutes ago, Return to Glory said:

I have no idea whether or not Oliver is disgruntled. But I have to completely agree with you here AF. That B & F result smacks of our coaches viewing games through some kind of distorted reality. And if the coaches can get something so wrong, I'm in turn worried about their ability to make good decisions.

BANG!! CORRECT! Viney 3rd in B&F?? Seriously look at his stats this year ! I dont even think he should have been in the top 10!!

Oliver a clear 3rd maybe even 2nd  behind Petracca and probably Max, May 4th and Langdon 5th would have been my assesment.

Edited October 16, 20204 yr by picket fence

23 hours ago, A F said:

Let's just put it this way. If we haven't re-signed him by Round 1 I'll be worried. It will also have a destabilising effect on the club. So Oliver and his management ought to think about that.

Round 1? No. Mid year? Yeah I'll start to worry.

Not sure if @dazzledavey36 might know a bit about this given his connections to Bushies, but i'd imagine Clarry probably would have been pretty unhappy about the fact he finished behind Viney and Langdon when i think a lot would agree he's had a better year. 

the perception that Simon Goodwin plays favourites is definitely not just something some fans think, imo. 

 

15 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Round 1? No. Mid year? Yeah I'll start to worry.

16th October 2020 and I'm worried mate. Viney needs to STFU in public and bring people together, not divide. That is leadership.

Edited October 16, 20204 yr by A F

9 minutes ago, picket fence said:

BANG!! CORRECT! Viney 3rd in B&F?? Seriously look at his stats this year ! I dont even think he should have been in the top 10!!

Oliver a clear 3rd maybe even 2nd  behind Petracca and probably Max, May 4th and Langdon 5th would have been my assesment.

Picket, I'm glad someone else said it. I would have had Viney in top ten calculations but third...give me a spell. I know there will be many who will believe it's a small matter. I'm not so sure. 

21 hours ago, Skuit said:

We had a sniff of finals this year - and Clarry only managed 15 possessions against the Bulldogs and was a part of the midfield which let the opposition trample all over us. We are on the cusp of success - which will come quicker if he gets better.  

Gets better? he is an AA and squad member.How about pointing the fingers on players that are actually [censored] like the McDonald brothers or the coach in Goodwin. And if anyone of the stars should be criticised it should be Viney who got caught holding the ball more time than Goodwin says 'learnings' or 'we gotta get better'

Can somebody wake me up if and when something actually happens?   

Oliver's performance got better as the season went on, if he stays and and continues to improve then he won't have to worry about finishing below 3rd in the BnF. Coaches will always love players like Langdon/Viney who give all for the cause. 

Either way don't like the smoke here, big 12 months for the club on and off the pitch if we're to retain the Ginger Prince. 

33 minutes ago, A F said:

I've said this so many times now, but I've only been alive 33 years. He's the best player we've ever had in that time. 

The best player in the last 33 years at the dees? That's a  big call.

14 minutes ago, binman said:

The best player in the last 33 years at the dees? That's a  big call.

It's not even a discussion for me. The guy is an out and out star. 

24 minutes ago, roy11 said:

Oliver's performance got better as the season went on, if he stays and and continues to improve then he won't have to worry about finishing below 3rd in the BnF. Coaches will always love players like Langdon/Viney who give all for the cause. 

Either way don't like the smoke here, big 12 months for the club on and off the pitch if we're to retain the Ginger Prince. 

And coaches should love the guy that makes our entire midfield tick....

7 minutes ago, A F said:

It's not even a discussion for me. The guy is an out and out star. 

Better than Schwarz?

8 minutes ago, binman said:

Better than Schwarz?

Yep and far more consistent and durable.

1 hour ago, Red and Blue realist said:

Who to believe out of Tony Sheehan or Peter Ryan? One is a proven liar, been called an unmitigated [censored] by a club president, had Sam Newman call him a piece of s%*t on national TV and is generally hated by everyone involved with footy, while the other one is Peter Ryan.

I don’t think anyone does but if Newman is calling you names it’s a 75% chance you’re a good person. 

49 minutes ago, A F said:

As for new memberships, my read on some of the supporter base is they completely underrate and undervalue him, and it's clear that the coaches do too.

Don't think that last part is fair at all. I think most of our coaches rate him as the greatest prospect they've ever encountered, according to just about everything I've ever read. But they've been driving him hard since day one, I think starting with McCartney (and to date he has responded well to that). I'll see if I can dig up an old training report - which if my memory is correct Nat Jones and others were tackling him harder and niggling him more than anyone else, trying to [censored] him off and testing his nerve.

He clearly performed better than Viney this year but I think they've set a high bar based on what he is capable of and expecting that he gets better. That's okay: just tell him that. Goodwin recently said he was the hardest working player he's ever come across - and I assume that means both throughout his playing and coaching career. Which is huge.

He was also a staunch defender when Clarry was getting criticized earlier this year. Hardly speaks of our coaches underrating or not appreciating him - just that they're employing tactics for him to get the best out of himself. If he feels that has been too harsh then we pull it in a bit - maybe like Trac - and tell him how important he is to us and what he can do to be better. Then give him that massive contract he wants and deserves. 

On 10/14/2020 at 6:23 PM, Clint Bizkit said:

clarriefication

clever!

54 minutes ago, A F said:

I've said this so many times now, but I've only been alive 33 years. He's the best player we've ever had in that time. The club needs to sort it out asap and pay him what he wants. If we lose him, we're stuffed.

As for new memberships, my read on some of the supporter base is they completely underrate and undervalue him, and it's clear that the coaches do too.

I'm not a fan of trading him and I don't think we will, but losing a player isn't life or death of a team.  Buddy Franklin is an absolute super star he was at his peak when he left Hawthorn, he is a once in a generation type player not Oliver, Hawthorn got pick 19 ish for him and went on to win a flag with out him.  Oliver is a good midfielder, no match winner but can impact games, his biggest issue he just doesn't hurt teams by foot.  Doesn't kick goals, doesn't amass a big total of metres gained and I'm sure someone will correct me runs at about 70% handball to kick ratio.  He can be replaced like any other player on our list, we don't have any super stars.

2 minutes ago, A F said:

Yep and far more consistent and durable.

I guess it depends on how you are defining 'best''.

Schwarz was the best player i have seen at the dees outside of Flower, prior to his firsts knee injury. The only player to come close is Trac this year. So i would have Schwarz at the top of my list of bets platers at the dees in the last 33 years.

And even after his two knee injuries he was a star for us. And incredibly consistent. Barely played a poor game. Easy to forget he won the bluey in 1999 in a bloody goody team.

Don't get me wrong i agree Oliver is a star but personally i have Stynes, Nieta and max ahead of Oliver too and to be honest also, after this year Tracc too. That was the best season of football from a dees player since Nieta's in 1995.

1 minute ago, binman said:

I guess it depends on how you are defining 'best''.

Schwarz was the best player i have seen at the dees outside of Flower, prior to his firsts knee injury. The only player to come close is Trac this year. So i would have Schwarz at the top of my list of bets platers at the dees in the last 33 years.

And even after his two knee injuries he was a star for us. And incredibly consistent. Barely played a poor game. Easy to forget he won the bluey in 1999 in a bloody goody team.

Don't get me wrong i agree Oliver is a star but personally i have Stynes, Nieta and max ahead of Oliver too and to be honest also, after this year Tracc too. That was the best season of football from a dees player since Nieta's in 1995.

I agree.
Ox would have been one of the greats of the entire AFL history if not for the injuries.

I would rate him the best I’ve ever seen, even better than Flower. If he stayed healthy Carey wouldn’t be held in as high regard and Neitz would have been a multiple AA CHB.

1 hour ago, A F said:

16th October 2020 and I'm worried mate. Viney needs to STFU in public and bring people together, not divide. That is leadership.

I'm not reading every post in here but have I missed something? What has Viney said (or are you referring to the comments made when he re-signed about the players needing to get the best out of themselves?)

He may want to leave. He may want to go to Carlton. That happens.

If above is fact then the ball is our court as he is under contract for next season and will not be a free agent at that point.

He is a 23 year old All Australian so his trade value is high. The question is what can unlock to allow us to replace him with a player of his, or close to his, quality.