Jump to content

  • Podcast: Grand Final Preview      

  • Podcast: Gary Pert Interview & Grand Final Preview      

Oliver Rumours on Footy Classified


dazzledavey36
 Share


Recommended Posts

Oliver has some great traits, but if he wants to go beyond being a talented player to being a superstar of the competition he has to have more impact on games. He came in all guns blazing year 1 with his work in close and his vision but he has plateaued. He needs to find another gear and greater consistency to be considered the among the best.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Dr.D said:

Gets better? he is an AA and squad member.How about pointing the fingers on players that are actually [censored] like the McDonald brothers or the coach in Goodwin. And if anyone of the stars should be criticised it should be Viney who got caught holding the ball more time than Goodwin says 'learnings' or 'we gotta get better'

I'll reluctantly entertain you on this one Doc (even though I seriously wish you would just [censored] off to big footy, no offence, but please [censored] off to big footy). Do you seriously think Clarry has reached his ceiling? Do you not believe that he has the capacity to get any better?

I'd actually prefer it if you didn't answer and just [censored] off to big footy instead, but I'm sure you will come up with a way to avoid the the question at hand and just keep polluting these boards with your toxic garbage. I hope you feel satisfied with your life in that role. 

  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites


28 minutes ago, Skuit said:

Don't think that last part is fair at all. I think most of our coaches rate him as the greatest prospect they've ever encountered, according to just about everything I've ever read. But they've been driving him hard since day one, I think starting with McCartney (and to date he has responded well to that). I'll see if I can dig up an old training report - which if my memory is correct Nat Jones and others were tackling him harder and niggling him more than anyone else, trying to [censored] him off and testing his nerve.

He clearly performed better than Viney this year but I think they've set a high bar based on what he is capable of and expecting that he gets better. That's okay: just tell him that. Goodwin recently said he was the hardest working player he's ever come across - and I assume that means both throughout his playing and coaching career. Which is huge.

He was also a staunch defender when Clarry was getting criticized earlier this year. Hardly speaks of our coaches underrating or not appreciating him - just that they're employing tactics for him to get the best out of himself. If he feels that has been too harsh then we pull it in a bit - maybe like Trac - and tell him how important he is to us and what he can do to be better. Then give him that massive contract he wants and deserves. 

But hang on mate. If you agree that he clearly performed better than Viney and yet polled less FD votes, you're essentially backing up what I've said here. The coaches underrated him. McCartney is no longer there. Interesting. And despite Viney having a weaker season, you're saying the coaches still gave him more votes than Oliver because Oliver is capable of more? It doesn't make sense.

24 minutes ago, drdrake said:

I'm not a fan of trading him and I don't think we will, but losing a player isn't life or death of a team.  Buddy Franklin is an absolute super star he was at his peak when he left Hawthorn, he is a once in a generation type player not Oliver, Hawthorn got pick 19 ish for him and went on to win a flag with out him.  Oliver is a good midfielder, no match winner but can impact games, his biggest issue he just doesn't hurt teams by foot.  Doesn't kick goals, doesn't amass a big total of metres gained and I'm sure someone will correct me runs at about 70% handball to kick ratio.  He can be replaced like any other player on our list, we don't have any super stars.

Oliver will be at Melbourne next year. I'm talking about the end of 2021.

And Oliver and Franklin are not comparable. If Hawthorn had lost Sam Mitchell then I'd agree with you. They also wouldn't have won all those flags without him.

This post is an example of how Melbourne fans underrate Oliver. He hasn't missed a match since his first season. If he was out of our midfield, you'd see a distinctly weaker outfit.

25 minutes ago, binman said:

I guess it depends on how you are defining 'best''.

Schwarz was the best player i have seen at the dees outside of Flower, prior to his firsts knee injury. The only player to come close is Trac this year. So i would have Schwarz at the top of my list of bets platers at the dees in the last 33 years.

And even after his two knee injuries he was a star for us. And incredibly consistent. Barely played a poor game. Easy to forget he won the bluey in 1999 in a bloody goody team.

Don't get me wrong i agree Oliver is a star but personally i have Stynes, Nieta and max ahead of Oliver too and to be honest also, after this year Tracc too. That was the best season of football from a dees player since Nieta's in 1995.

Each to their own, mate. As I've said above, you'll notice how good Oliver is when he's not there, but because he plays every match, it's pretty hard to see.

I loved Schwarta. A unique talent, but I rate midfielders higher. Midfielders win premierships.

22 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I'm not reading every post in here but have I missed something? What has Viney said (or are you referring to the comments made when he re-signed about the players needing to get the best out of themselves?)

Yep, that's what I'm referring to. He said "just because of the way I have played my football and I suppose my attitude towards team-first football I have always been drawn to performing team roles." He might think it's team first to play rugby and Goodwin may love it, but 8 years in the system and still making our midfield run into each other.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, A F said:

 

Oliver will be at Melbourne next year. I'm talking about the end of 2021.

And Oliver and Franklin are not comparable. If Hawthorn had lost Sam Mitchell then I'd agree with you. They also wouldn't have won all those flags without him.

This post is an example of how Melbourne fans underrate Oliver. He hasn't missed a match since his first season. If he was out of our midfield, you'd see a distinctly weaker outfit.

Do you know what the difference between Mitchell and Oliver is, one can kick, one can't.

Buddy was an absolute superstar, all im highlighting is you can lose your stars and get over it.

Give me Buddy Franklin over any midfielder any day of the week.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, drdrake said:

Do you know what the difference between Mitchell and Oliver is, one can kick, one can't.

Buddy was an absolute superstar, all im highlighting is you can lose your stars and get over it.

Give me Buddy Franklin over any midfielder any day of the week.  

We'll agree to disagree then.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The issue with Oliver is the way he takes the ball stationary or going backwards and gives off a 1m handball to a flat footed player actually hurts the team.

He has to improve his fundamentals - using his legs to drive forward, lifting his arms and drawing tackles before disposing, handballing to space and knowing when to kick and take ground.

He hasn’t been developed properly. So instead of becoming a superstar he’s just a solid A grade mid. It’s not too late to fix it, but it needs buy in from everyone involved. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, A F said:

But hang on mate. If you agree that he clearly performed better than Viney and yet polled less FD votes, you're essentially backing up what I've said here. The coaches underrated him. McCartney is no longer there. Interesting. And despite Viney having a weaker season, you're saying the coaches still gave him more votes than Oliver because Oliver is capable of more? It doesn't make sense.

Not like that at all mate. Just saying they likely set a higher bar for Clarry and expect more. Coaches put it on him and then judge his performance accordingly (I would probably be [censored] too, being held to a higher standard).

Though we all do the exact same thing on here - just check the D'land votes throughout the year (and also my advocacy of Clarry when he doesn't get a mention - clearly ahead of those getting votes). Viney does what he is capable of with in line with direct orders and gets the votes.

Clayton is capable of much much more than Jack and is being encouraged to reach his potential. It makes sense to me, especially in terms of our bnf voting system, where each player is awarded points out of ten for each game. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, Skuit said:

Not like that at all mate. Just saying they likely set a higher bar for Clarry and expect more. Coaches put it on him and then judge his performance accordingly (I would probably be [censored] too, being held to a higher standard).

Though we all do the exact same thing on here - just check the D'land votes throughout the year (and also my advocacy of Clarry when he doesn't get a mention - clearly ahead of those getting votes). Viney does what he is capable of with in line with direct orders and gets the votes.

Clayton is capable of much much more than Jack and is being encouraged to reach his potential. It makes sense to me, especially in terms of our bnf voting system, where each player is awarded points out of ten for each game. 

Skuit, by all means encourage Viney but I'm not quite sure when the B & F at a footy club became an encouragement award

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, A F said:

No, no I wouldn't.

I would. If Carlton or any other team make a silly offer we should listen.

I think it’s dangerous for a club to think someone is untradable. Leads to poor list management decisions. I bet Collingwood wish they could have their time over again with Grundy. 7 years on big coin. He’s had a pretty indifferent season and now it looks like they’ll have to shed one of De Goey or Treloar because of cap issues when they could have had 2 first round picks from Adelaide. Same with Daniher last year. Absolute stupidity by Essendon not to trade him.

Clayton is a super player no question and I’d hate to lose him but he finished 5th in the BnF. He hasn’t had a great year by his standards and I don’t think that’s just because of coaching (although it definitely plays a part).

I’d offer him 3 years on top dollar. If we’re successful in that time he’ll re-sign and if we’re not then we should accommodate his wishes and allow him to find a new home if that’s what he wants to do.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Demon Disciple said:

Neither would I. Clarry is on the verge of becoming an absolute A-grader. Keeping him is simply non-negotiable

He's not on the verge of becoming an A grader. He is an A grader. He's elite in all the categories that matter for an inside mid.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, Skuit said:

Not like that at all mate. Just saying they likely set a higher bar for Clarry and expect more. Coaches put it on him and then judge his performance accordingly (I would probably be [censored] too, being held to a higher standard).

Though we all do the exact same thing on here - just check the D'land votes throughout the year (and also my advocacy of Clarry when he doesn't get a mention - clearly ahead of those getting votes). Viney does what he is capable of with in line with direct orders and gets the votes.

Clayton is capable of much much more than Jack and is being encouraged to reach his potential. It makes sense to me, especially in terms of our bnf voting system, where each player is awarded points out of ten for each game. 

I don't think rating him differently to others despite providing a better output is the way to get the best results out of players. That's just my opinion though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Better days ahead said:

I would. If Carlton or any other team make a silly offer we should listen.

I think it’s dangerous for a club to think someone is untradable. Leads to poor list management decisions. I bet Collingwood wish they could have their time over again with Grundy. 7 years on big coin. He’s had a pretty indifferent season and now it looks like they’ll have to shed one of De Goey or Treloar because of cap issues when they could have had 2 first round picks from Adelaide. Same with Daniher last year. Absolute stupidity by Essendon not to trade him.

Clayton is a super player no question and I’d hate to lose him but he finished 5th in the BnF. He hasn’t had a great year by his standards and I don’t think that’s just because of coaching (although it definitely plays a part).

I’d offer him 3 years on top dollar. If we’re successful in that time he’ll re-sign and if we’re not then we should accommodate his wishes and allow him to find a new home if that’s what he wants to do.

Oliver is a better player than Merrett. So let's just start with that.

As for the idea that no player is untradeable. Sure, every player is tradeable then, but if you want to win flags you can't be trading away your very best players.

Midfielders are vital to winning premierships, so I don't particularly rate the idea that Franklin leaving Hawthorn didn't impact on their flag successes. Well, great, but he's not a midfielder. Franklin wouldn't get it without Sam Mitchell extracting. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, A F said:

I don't think rating him differently to others despite providing a better output is the way to get the best results out of players. That's just my opinion though.

I don't agree or disagree. But it's a fact of life that we're all judged according to what we're capable of, rather than in exact comparison to our peers. A couple university degrees taught me this pretty quickly, and I had to work much harder than most to maintain my grades. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles  

    THE ICING ON THE QUAKE by Whispering Jack

    It’s not Christmas yet but if the Melbourne wins its last game of the 2021 season, then many of its fans will be celebrating early. There already are some parts of our town where the pending festivity is preordained. Houses are decked out with red and blue banners and streamers, some of which appeared as early as last Saturday week, on the morning after the Demons’ magnificent 83-point crushing of Geelong in their preliminary final at Optus Stadium. While it’s great to see the numbers of lo

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    CAT SKINNING by George On The Outer

    When they defeated the Geelong Cats in the 2021 AFL Preliminary Final on Friday night in Perth, Melbourne proved that there is more than one way to skin those cats.  They did it in the ruck and in the middle, they did it in the forward line, they did it in defence and around the ground, but importantly, each and every player a Demon guernsey spent his night at Optus Stadium skinning an opponent. Following the after-the-siren win against Geelong in Round 23, there was an expectation of

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    THE POINTY END by The Oracle

    The AFL’s two oldest clubs, Melbourne and Geelong, face off on Friday evening in a sudden death Preliminary Final. It’s a game that promises plenty in terms of fascination and intrigue as a result of the rivalry that’s been building between the teams over recent encounters that have been tight struggles which have gone to the wire with two of them decided by after-the-siren goals. The added touch of mystery attached to this week’s meeting comes by virtue of the fact that it’s going to take

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    THE VFL YEAR THAT NEVER WAS by KC from Casey

    The rising case numbers and the continuing lockdowns in Victoria and NSW spelled doom for the 2021 VFL season which went through a slow, painful demise before its recent official cancellation. After weeks of indecision, the AFL decided to pull the plug on the season with the 10-0 Bulldogs recognised as minor premier, but without a premiership cup and without awarding the J.J. Liston Medal for the best and fairest VFL player. It was somewhat fortuitous for the integrity of the competition t

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    TAMING THE LIONS by George On The Outer

    With nine finals debutants in the side, the Melbourne Football Club had a daunting assignment ahead of it in the First Qualifying Final — to overcome the competition’s highest scoring side, the Brisbane Lions. In the end, the Demons accomplished the task by putting the bite on their opponents on their way to taming the Lions and recording a 33 point win that propelled them into one the two Preliminary Finals of 2021.   It was one of those debutants, Luke Jackson, who put the bite in more

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    RETURN TO NEVERLAND by Whispering Jack

    The greatest Demon A HIGHWAY OF DEMONS by Whispering Jack CHAPTER SIXTEEN - RETURN TO NEVERLAND  I have a six year old grandson who recently took up the family tradition of following the Demons. He had his first taste of the game a few years ago when he went to the “G” with his parents to watch the 107-point massacre of Carlton and he went to another game in the following season which was also a W for the Dees. But his appetite for the club has grown exponentially this year and wh

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Special Features 13

    METAMORPHOSIS by Whispering Jack

    I’ve always believed that when the home and away matches come to an end, the football season takes on a completely different shape and character. During the regular season, each team’s goals progress as the weeks pass and if you’re good enough to survive and make the grade, the situation changes. The comparison can be made with the life cycle of a butterfly going through stages from egg to larva to caterpillar, cocoon and in the end to a bright and colourful creature that emerges from darkness i

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    STEALING THE CATS’ CREAM by George On The Outer

    They were leading by 44 points well into the third quarter of a game to decide the minor premier, having kicked nine unanswered goals. The Cats were about to lap up their bowl of cream, dreaming of next week but the Demons led by Max Gawn had other ideas. In a stunning finish, they stole the game from under them to claim the plaudits as best team and top of ladder position. In a remarkable game, it all came down to Max having to kick the winning goal after the final siren, something which s

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    SKIN THE CATS by Whispering Jack

    The task ahead for the Demons as they wend their way down the Princes Freeway to Geelong on Saturday night will be to skin the Cats. For them to come away with the points from this game would mark an historic occasion for the club as it will finish on top of the ladder for the first time since its last premiership year, 1964. And it was in that year, that a trip to Corio Bay to meet the reigning premiers in Round 12, was one of the catalysts for Melbourne’s surge to the flag. It was a top o

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    REACH FOR THE STARS by George on the Outer

    It was a game of great significance for the Melbourne Football Club. A win would see them keep top spot on the ladder with one round remaining. To achieve top place in the Round for Reach when we are all inspired to “Be Like Jim” and reach for the stars was a great way of honouring one of our heroes. All the better given that it was done by way of an emphatic 41 point win against Adelaide! It is worth remembering that, but for the umpiring mistake in the previous encounter with the Crows, t

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    TICKETS PLEASE by The Oracle

    A lot of water has passed under Princes Bridge in the five years since Melbourne last met Adelaide on the MCG. The Crows were riding high at the time while the Demons were mid-table and scrambling for a win to stay in the race for the finals. The 30,000 fans who had tickets to the game were thoroughly entertained by a close, high scoring affair that ended in tears for fans of the home team. Not even an eight-goal second term could help them.   Times have changed.    In the fi

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    ELECTRIFYING by George On The Outer

    What more can they throw at the Demons of 2021? Covid restrictions, hubs, aircraft circling between airports before landing for games and now a match stopped for 30 minutes to give a flagging opponent its second wind? To date, none of those distractions has swayed the team from their winning objectives. The game against West Coast in Perth can be marked on their report card as another positive outcome after yet another test. There was much at stake for both sides.  Melbourne had t

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

  • Tell a friend

    Love Demonland? Tell a friend!

×
×
  • Create New...