On 01/04/2025 at 00:43, Fromgotowoewodin said:

Part of the slowness comes from a change in game plan. Players need to know where to be and when things change it takes longer to get to the right spots and longer to realise you’ve got to move. But even allowing for that we don't look fit. I’m well and truly off Selwyn..

We haven’t done anything yet to be fatigued. We were witches hats against North, and flat footed against the Suns.

Current style in TRANSITION is

Slow chip kick mark slow chip kick mark turnover … so boring and ridiculous to watch

Future TRANSITION must be

Hit a target … create run and overlap

Take quick option and execute skills

Dees getting McVee, Windsor and Pickett back will help

Our game plan is still built on the skill set and ability of the current midfield Viney Petracca Oliver and Gawn

To change the plan we need to replace all 4 in the middle

That is why Goodys new plan is not working

We play a brand determined by Max and the others not by the coaching staff

This is at the heart of our problems these 4 cannot or will not play the new game plan

Has lead to bad games, frustration and angst in the 4 and the rest of the team

Edited Tuesday at 04:155 days by Kent

  On 31/03/2025 at 06:25, jnrmac said:

GC started the 3rd quarter centre clearances 7- 0

We were hopeless and Jeff White has identified some of the problems

Structural but also self imposed pressure where players like Viney have no confidence in their team mate and so repeatedly dives into a contest leaving a GC player on the outside.

This is the classic bees to the honeypot and our bad old days. Because the mids are under pressure they seem to have reverted to these poor standards.

Tragic.

I don't think any AFL calibre team let alone us should be losing 7 straight centre clearances. We started the last quarter against North in a similar position, down and needing a lift, we responded by losing 4 out of 4 centre clearances and proceeded to be blown out of the water crushing any hope of anything.

Holding the width and being balanced at the contest was something we really nailed from 21 to 23. It's sad to see we've gone back to the bees to the honeypot mode again.

We are trying to play a possession game, short 25 to 30m kicks, issue is we hit 2 miss the third everyone is out of position and the fast break the other way happens. We dont have good enough kicks to play this way, Viney, Langdon, Petracca, Oliver are all terrible kicks, they are your main ball winners.

  On 01/04/2025 at 05:29, drdrake said:

We are trying to play a possession game, short 25 to 30m kicks, issue is we hit 2 miss the third everyone is out of position and the fast break the other way happens. We dont have good enough kicks to play this way, Viney, Langdon, Petracca, Oliver are all terrible kicks, they are your main ball winners.

Exactly right - well that's part of our plan.

We simply can't afford to have our best kicks not playing atm.

And in my opinion our best kicks are: Melk, Koz, McVee, Lindsay, Spargs, Windsor and Kolt - only one of whom played on the weekend (i'm not counting Lindsay given he was out of the game 2 mins into the game)

  On 01/04/2025 at 05:33, binman said:

Exactly right - well that's part of our plan.

We simply can't afford to have our best kicks not playing atm.

And in my opinion our best kicks are: Melk, Koz, McVee, Lindsay, Spargs, Windsor and Kolt - only one of whom played on the weekend (i'm not counting Lindsay given he was out of the game 2 mins into the game)

Langford kicks to advantage better than any of our players IMV. Bowey is one of our better kicks too

As someone mentioned somewhere else on this site, and I thought it was an erudite observation, its one thing to have good kicks in your team. It's another to make sure you have them in the right places.

Having Bowey making a good kick over a half-forward's head to a winger in your own d50 doesn't impact the scoreboard, as exactly the same kick would have entering the forward 50.

For reasons I cannot fathom, we have not done the following: played Christian Salem off the back off offensive forward half stoppage enough. We have not overlapped off halfback enough either by bringing in Bailey Laurie as a running contesting offensive halfback, or using Jake Bowey more prominently in that role. We have instead kicked across halfback.

The muscle memory in the team is telling. Every single player in the team is unable to play on quickly - i forgive them it would take concerted coaching to change this - and you can tell it hasn't been done. We simply have not done enough work to make a new plan work at the highest level. When placed under pressure our micro-moments, our structure, reverts to a brand that has been worked out thoroughly by our opposition. And the thing that frustrates me is that this reticence to play the new style is clearly not widespread in the squad, its becoming far to regular to watch Trent Rivers get ignored by Jake Lever or Tom McDonald on the overlap. Give the ball and get some speed on it.

  On 01/04/2025 at 05:37, Adam The God said:

Langford kicks to advantage better than any of our players IMV. Bowey is one of our better kicks too

Agree on both, particularly Bowser (I knew I had forgotten someone- salo was rte other, but to be honest his kicking has become completely threat free(

Two of our first 3 goals were a direct result of Langford's vision and ability to see and hit creative kicks.

On a positive there’s plenty of vision of players burning other players forward of the ball and opting to either kick long or chip sideways or backwards. This at least shows that players are often getting to these positions, albeit they are ignored. It’s part learning a new game, part trying not to turn it over. They need to be further encouraged to open their vision and to take the kick. This is what annoys me about soccer. Let’s do this at training at 3/4 pace and get it ingrained. Ok I’ll stop whinging about the soccer now!

  On 01/04/2025 at 05:29, drdrake said:

We are trying to play a possession game, short 25 to 30m kicks, issue is we hit 2 miss the third everyone is out of position and the fast break the other way happens. We dont have good enough kicks to play this way, Viney, Langdon, Petracca, Oliver are all terrible kicks, they are your main ball winners.

I was listening to SEN this evening in the car and they had the Champion Data guru on. He was talking about the work they have done to build up 7 years of data on ball speed, which clubs are the quickest and the slowest etc. Brisbane last year took ball speed to a new level and many sides are trying to match them this year. What interested me was that he said Brisbane’s ball speed required multiple players who were elite kicks and many sides generating speed this year don’t have them so it’s not working, e.g. Carlton. He did mention that Collingwood in 2023 generated speed by handball not by foot. He believed McCrae recognised that he did not have the kicking ability so instead developed a game plan built around immediate forward handball to break lines, rather than a succession of short accurate kicking.

Is that what the Dees game plan should be to generate ball speed?

  On 01/04/2025 at 10:46, Earl Hood said:

I was listening to SEN this evening in the car and they had the Champion Data guru on. He was talking about the work they have done to build up 7 years of data on ball speed, which clubs are the quickest and the slowest etc. Brisbane last year took ball speed to a new level and many sides are trying to match them this year. What interested me was that he said Brisbane’s ball speed required multiple players who were elite kicks and many sides generating speed this year don’t have them so it’s not working, e.g. Carlton. He did mention that Collingwood in 2023 generated speed by handball not by foot. He believed McCrae recognised that he did not have the kicking ability so instead developed a game plan built around immediate forward handball to break lines, rather than a succession of short accurate kicking.

Is that what the Dees game plan should be to generate ball speed?

Good post this.

We've definitely upped how aggressive we are with forward handball. Very noticeable in Rounds 1 and 2, and even for patches of Round 3.

  On 01/04/2025 at 04:05, Kent said:

Our game plan is still built on the skill set and ability of the current midfield Viney Petracca Oliver and Gawn

To change the plan we need to replace all 4 in the middle

That is why Goodys new plan is not working

We play a brand determined by Max and the others not by the coaching staff

This is at the heart of our problems these 4 cannot or will not play the new game plan

Has lead to bad games, frustration and angst in the 4 and the rest of the team

Interesting observation, Kent, and you may well be right

But I really hope you are wrong, because if you are right, we've got a mountain to climb

  On 01/04/2025 at 04:05, Kent said:

Our game plan is still built on the skill set and ability of the current midfield Viney Petracca Oliver and Gawn

To change the plan we need to replace all 4 in the middle

That is why Goodys new plan is not working

We play a brand determined by Max and the others not by the coaching staff

This is at the heart of our problems these 4 cannot or will not play the new game plan

Has lead to bad games, frustration and angst in the 4 and the rest of the team

If it is a case of the tail wagging the Dog then we are in serious strife. We need to get back to being a selfless team and clearly defined roles for players. Of course there is a place for Oliver, Viney and Trac but there needs to be balance. Have said for years that our list has been unbalanced all inside and no outside and a one paced team. Over the last few years we have drafted to address this as well as getting in players with better disposal but the game has shifted quickly to a fast paced transition game and we are extremely late to the party on the shift and are quite literally now chasing [censored] in game and in the competition.

I believe we have the personnel now to play the transition game but my issue is what it looks like ahead of the ball ie forwardline. Despite it being a clear weakness over the last 3 years I see nothing that indicates a dramatic change to how it will function, that is not good enough and does nothing to change my belief that Goodwin cannot coach offence.

It’s amazing how often Petracca, Oliver and Viney clearly ignore team rules and kick long. They need a solid whack.

Some damning footage on First Crack of Rowell running down into the forward line for an easy mark while Oliver and Petracca walked in behind him doing lots of pointing for someone to pick him up. Too late ... and then after he marked, Fritch's opponent (sorry, can't remember who), ran past for an easy receive and run through to goal. Half a dozen Dees standing round looking at each other.

They were the opposite of "on".

  On 01/04/2025 at 08:19, Roost it far said:

On a positive there’s plenty of vision of players burning other players forward of the ball and opting to either kick long or chip sideways or backwards. This at least shows that players are often getting to these positions, albeit they are ignored. It’s part learning a new game, part trying not to turn it over. They need to be further encouraged to open their vision and to take the kick. This is what annoys me about soccer. Let’s do this at training at 3/4 pace and get it ingrained. Ok I’ll stop whinging about the soccer now!

I'm really missing Windsor for this exact reason. He's one of the few players in the team right now that takes that extra step and produces a higher percentage kick whereas most are hack kicking like frazzled rabbits.

  On 01/04/2025 at 22:43, layzie said:

I'm really missing Windsor for this exact reason. He's one of the few players in the team right now that takes that extra step and produces a higher percentage kick whereas most are hack kicking like frazzled rabbits.

And we’re going to miss Lindsay for the same reason. I’m interested how we’ll look when Tholstrup, Lindsay, Windsor, Pickett and Langford are all playing. They give us a range of options we currently don’t have.

  On 01/04/2025 at 21:51, Roost it far said:

It’s amazing how often Petracca, Oliver and Viney clearly ignore team rules and kick long. They need a solid whack.

What about Max? Blazing away when he had a man free in the North game was an eye-opener (might have been the GWS game)

He's also the Captain working in conjunction in the midfield with the 3 players that you mentioned (Viney, Petracca & Oliver)

I wouldn't be leaving him out of the equation

Edited Tuesday at 22:534 days by Macca

  On 01/04/2025 at 22:52, Macca said:

What about Max? Blazing away when he had a man free in the North game was an eye-opener

He's also the Captain working in conjunction in the midfield with the 3 players that you mentioned (Viney, Petracca & Oliver)

I wouldn't be leaving him out of the equation

Agreed Max needs to be told to handball forward at all costs.

  On 01/04/2025 at 21:51, Roost it far said:

It’s amazing how often Petracca, Oliver and Viney clearly ignore team rules and kick long. They need a solid whack.

Unless of course it is team rules. We have been doing it since 2018

  On 01/04/2025 at 22:53, Roost it far said:

Agreed Max needs to be told to handball forward at all costs.

Correct but we need players buzzing around him when he gets the ball

Most of his kicks aren't very effective

  On 01/04/2025 at 21:57, bing181 said:

Some damning footage on First Crack of Rowell running down into the forward line for an easy mark while Oliver and Petracca walked in behind him doing lots of pointing for someone to pick him up. Too late ... and then after he marked, Fritch's opponent (sorry, can't remember who), ran past for an easy receive and run through to goal. Half a dozen Dees standing round looking at each other.

They were the opposite of "on".

Noble I think it was...

  On 01/04/2025 at 22:53, Roost it far said:

Agreed Max needs to be told to handball forward at all costs.

at least he can't kick it to himself at every opportunity like the rest of the team do.

  On 01/04/2025 at 22:49, Roost it far said:

And we’re going to miss Lindsay for the same reason. I’m interested how we’ll look when Tholstrup, Lindsay, Windsor, Pickett and Langford are all playing. They give us a range of options we currently don’t have.

I would REALLY like to see a game with at least 4 of these 5 in the team.