Sandy game scores

[Brocky 4]

Speaking of which, maybe Beach Road Bazza can enlighten me as to who it was that grounded that enormous number 5 for Port on the wing near the Sandy bench. The little Sandy player was about up to my waist, and he just about swallowed that ruckman/forward whole. I would have looked at his number but I was too busy laughing...

Was Tomi Johnston. Terrific tackle, won a holding the ball decision. Let Port's ruckman know about it afterwards too.

[Jaded No More 68,903]

Too many things have happened in this thread since I last read it... I don't know where to start.

Firstly, terrible news about Dunny if true. I hope the bastard who elbowed him in the head gets a nice long rest!

On the plus side, great news about Sylvia, but I don't believe he'll be back next week. If the club is towing the company line, ie- 'a few weeks', than I stand by my comment that we won't hear from him before Round 8 at the earliest. Hope I'm wrong!

On the Yze debate (just for a change ); essentially the problem is where to play Yze.

He cannot and should not step foot in the backline because he is less accountable than Ward and Brown combined, and he won't go in hard to stop his opponent from getting a mark or goal.

Up forward he is just lazy, or bored, whatever way you choose to look at it. He doesn't get involved in the play enough, and he doesn't even crumb goals unless the ball falls into his lap, because he is scared of getting crunched in the pack.

So that leaves the wing, but then the competition for spots is so tough, that you couldn't see him getting a sustained run. His pace is ok, and his skills are unquestionable, but no matter where you are on the ground, you need to show physical and mental commitment at all times.

It's great that he got 25 possessions in a sub-standard VFL match, and a practice one at that. If he wouldn't, you'd just about have to stick a fork in him and say he's done.

But if you put that in context, Bartram got 17 in a half and he hasn't had a pre-season.

The stat sheet reads 12 tackles, which is very positive, but it's still not enough to say he is now deserving of a spot in our 22.

He has spent a lot of time doing very little, while earning big money. This is only the beginning of his reality check, and it should continue for a few more weeks to come if we want to see a real change in him.

BrownlowBruce, nobody expects Yze to magically transform himself into a fearless, hard-working, tough footballer in the form of James McDonland or Brock McLean.

But there is an acceptable level of commitment and hardness that every single AFL footballer needs to reach. Yze has been below par for a lot longer than we'd like to admit.

Edit: What's the go with Byron?

[mikeod 21]

Was Tomi Johnston. Terrific tackle, won a holding the ball decision. Let Port's ruckman know about it afterwards too.

Yep, Tomi played well. Son of the Dominator of course. Such a small, lightly framed player but he has a lot of skill and agility. Hopefully he gets a few senior games.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

That's fair enough. In truth, I came up with the bench idea on the spot. Rohan Smith and Riccardi did it with some success, maybe it's a role Yze can fulfill for a few of his twilight years later on? At least for now, and certainly in round 1 you can't go into a game planning to only use a guy for a half or so. If that's how you go about it you're basically carrying him. I think it could work if one of the younger guys got hurt, or was getting soundly beaten early on, but when you boil it down I have to concede the point. Yze is too expensive, talented and young to be played for partial games.

I had thought Rohan Smith and Riccardi played for the team.

Hang the expensive tag, Yze plays on the quality of his performance not the size of a bloated contract.

For the record, yes Yze worked hard, but I'm not convinced he worked any differently than he has his entire career.

Thats the rub. And that's impression I got from your report.

I had a thought before. No-one was complaining when he was playing soft but kicking 4 goals a match. I'm happy for him to play soft if he does that, but does anyone think he can kick 4, week in week out? If he did he'd win the Coleman. Nope... Just look at Green. Does the important, less flashy things now, never gets spoken about outside of MFC and he's improved immesurably over the last 16 months.

Yze CAN do that, I just want to see evidence he's altering his game. Which I haven't. Simple really.

You are quite wrong. There are a couple of sage posters on this site who were onto Yze in 2003 for the very things he is being hit with now. For the record, I did not believe. But when the chips were against in last 2004, I observed the then vice captain perform the most selfish, lazy and non team orientated antics. Those posters were right.

Yze kicks goals against weak opposition who dont match him up correctly and man him up. He's a flat track bully.

The problem is that when real pressure is applied by top teams and in late August and September he goes missing big time.

For the record, Brad Green is not the same character profile as Yze. Yze has had 13 years in the AFL. What do you think will change?

Clearly the required signs were not there at TBO.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Fair enough. I think when I say he can change, I mean EVERYONE can change. The one variable that gives me hope is his pride. I doubt he's had to suffer quite as much criticism in the past as he has at this stage of his career. If he continues to play in the same vein as he did in the second half of last season, and as you say since 2004, then that criticism will reach fever pitch.

For example, if we play him, and lose 4 or 5 of our first 6 games, I know in my heart he'll end up being the scapegoat along with probably Miller. That's not something he's ever had to endure in the past. Since his debut, if we've had a bad year he generally escaped blame due to his overall talent and reputation.

In my experience I've always seen Ooze as the kind of player that plays his whole career and somehow escapes the ire from supporters and commentators. Now that the acid's on him, perhaps his pride and identity as a footballer will force change? I dunno. If you ask what I think will change after 13 years in the AFL, then I'd say nothing. I couldn't possibly predict where he's going to go with his footy this season as there's too many unknowns just yet. For the record in that 13 seasons, there was one (2002) that was exceptional. Return to that kind of form and I'll belt up.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Yze has managed to skim through alot of his football career by being able to apply his skill in bursts to create the favourable outcomes from minimal output. He has done it for years now. However, as a footballer he has passed his peak. Over the past couple of years I have noticed that the silky skills and pinpoint passing haved waned and his influence on games are becoming increasing fewer and further between.

What has not changed in his attitude. I would have thought the 2005 EF would have been a catalyst to change. How humiliating to be the stand in captain in a final and toss the coin at the start only t6o disappear to the bench. When finally brought on rather than set an example in a contested situation for others, he merely took the shortcut and toepoked the ball indiscriminately along the ground.

He has had many such events that other players would see the roadsigns and you know what, Yze just sat back and lazily relied on his skills and the results are waning.

That's the thing. Even if he does have a change of attitude, how long will it last? In addition, I think Yze's sublime skills have waned to the extent that he cant live the millionaire and get away with it.

He is no longer capable of playing sustained periods in either the midfield or defence. His only option is up forward. As another astute poster has pointed out with Sylvia, Pickett and Dunn out the lack of other fit opportunistic forwards possibly saves Yze.

But the Sandy game form worries me for these reasons:

1. Yze can still sail on his skills in the VFL and cut enough possessions to look effective.

2. And according to reports he played in the midfield where he could manufacture possessions with the man on man pressure at AFL level.

3. If he really felt humiliated by his Richmond efforts, he would have really torn up the game at Sandy and dominated. I could name a number of other players who would have done that. Its called pride. But as usual Yze just did enough. I would have thought pride would have got the better out of him in 2006 after the ghastly finish of 2005. It did not.

Given the above, Yze will stil play Round 1. But the short warning missile has been fired over his bow. He must be on his last chance. If he does not make the most of it, he can glide along at Sandy in the following rounds.

I hope to be proven wrong about Yze. I had hoped that I would be proven wrong when I started airing my concerns about him on the Aimoo site in 2004. Problem is I havent been. Its now that alot more people are talking about the exact issues that were raised in 2004.

He has his chance in Round 1, I hoped he makes the most of it. And I dont just mean to kick 5 off easy receives.

[Choko 493]

I'll take 5 easy ones!

[Demon15 0]

Given the above, Yze will stil play Round 1.

Why will he/should he play Round 1? Apart from the 'final chance' syndrome so many seem to think is the position.

A serious question.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

"with Sylvia, Pickett and Dunn out the lack of other fit opportunistic forwards possibly saves Yze"

What other talented forward opportunists do we have to select? Davey will take one spot and may play up the ground a bit.

If any of Pickett, Dunn or Sylvia were fit and firing I would not play Yze.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

He has his chance in Round 1, I hoped he makes the most of it.

Well now, if that's not encouragement I don't know what is. I reckon he'll be the player I watch most intently on the day.

[sylvinator 96]

The question- why should yze play round 1

The answer- Because despite being a frustrating player, he still plays atleast 8 top quality games a year where he drastically influences the result. he probably plays 6-7 games which he contributes below par, which is NOT good enough, however this does not mean he deserves to be dropped

he still can kick 40 goals a year, and people forget how great he was in the games where he's kicking goals and giving assists.

he is certainly an extremely talented player who has the ability to be in our best 10 players. His so called 'poor' performances over the past 2-3 years are so grossly overrated its rediculous.

i have followed demonland for a long time now. i know that it is part of the culture that 50% of posts involved bagging a) yze B) miller and a year ago it was holland.

last year yze had his poorest season for about 8 years.

YET, -

- He kicked 3 goals or more in 5 games

- had more than 13 possies in every game

- had more than 20 possies in 14 out of 22 home and away games

- kicked more than 30 goals for the year

In fact if you look at his stats for 2006 on melbourne's official website the figures arent that bad at all. Not one stage last year i think he desereved to be dropped and wasn't. consider that his statistics are affected by the fact he spends alot of time stuck in the forward pocket away the play.

i know he has under performed in recent times

My only point is that imo he is treated too harshly by demonland posters.

At the end of the day, i'd rather have yze in best 22. i could not name a best 22 without him in it.

[Whispering_Jack 30,022]

Just getting away from the Adem Yze issue, I want to say that I was mightily impressed by the way Clint Bartram went about things yesterday. He was close to best on ground in the first half although I recognise that it was probably easy playing at half back picking up kicks at will. However, it was how he went about it that impressed me (and that's without taking into account that it was his first run under competitive football conditions for 6 months) - he looked as if he's stepped up enormously since last season and I have a feeling that it won't be long before he starts doing things more on the level of a positive, creative footballer rather than just a stopper. If he does that, then he will probably go down in history as CAC's best ever draft selection (ahead of Woewodin, Green, Bruce, Rivers, McLean and Sylvia).

In the short term, I'd be interested to know how he pulls up after yesterday's run (ankle injuries can be very iffy). If he's right and playes three quarters next week, I think he might be in line for an AFL gig by no later than round 2 and ahead of schedule.

Another item of interest, Sandy had a kid Sam Sam Monaghan who stepped into Clint's position after half time and did a great job as a Clint Bartram look alike. Would have to be a big chance to play a lot of senior football with the Zebras this year and possible get rookied next year.

I think I've made my first big statements for 2007.

[gOLLy 401]

gee alot have changed their tune on Yze. Pity it took "i hear footsteps" at the Richmond game to change their minds

[BrownlowBruce 1]

1. Yze can still sail on his skills in the VFL and cut enough possessions to look effective.

2. And according to reports he played in the midfield where he could manufacture possessions with the man on man pressure at AFL level.

3. If he really felt humiliated by his Richmond efforts, he would have really torn up the game at Sandy and dominated. I could name a number of other players who would have done that. Its called pride. But as usual Yze just did enough. I would have thought pride would have got the better out of him in 2006 after the ghastly finish of 2005. It did not.

reports of 26 disposals (most on the ground) 2 goals and that strange stat i keep reading about of 12 tackles.

i guess that isnt really a torn up game for a man who is supposedly so LACKING of good form.

Rhino if a player really wants to just tear up a game they can just go do it? poor form is harder to break than u may think. or maybe u are grossly underrating the VFL.

yze deserves better from his fans.

[_becks_ 35]

Myself and the old man went to watch SaNdy on Sunday. Both of us thought that Yze was not all that flash. The fact that he laid 12 tackles suprises me, that one in the last qtr was a pearler though. I don't think he should automatically get a guernsey in the MFC squad though.

Newton was good, he impressed me, very good hands.

Wheaters also impressed me as did Bartram.

It was the first time i have seen Neaves and he did not impress me, although the old man assures me he has seen himplay some good games.

Godders was okay his kicking isn't as bad as some people suggest, but its not AFL standard.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

reports of 26 disposals (most on the ground) 2 goals and that strange stat i keep reading about of 12 tackles.

i guess that isnt really a torn up game for a man who is supposedly so LACKING of good form.

Rhino if a player really wants to just tear up a game they can just go do it? poor form is harder to break than u may think. or maybe u are grossly underrating the VFL.

yze deserves better from his fans.

Slicing it both ways BB. On one hand you suggest his number of disposals means he isnt lacking form then suggest poor form is harder to break than you think.

In this modern game I have seen player rack up 20+ possessions and been invisible. One of Yze's shortcuts in his footy career to extract the maximum benefit from the minimum effort. At times you get away with it. Other times you dont. It only worked for Yze consistently when he was at the pinnacle of his game..in 2002.

I watched the VFL often. I have watched Yze often. I know what to expect from both. Yze has enough class the skim it in the VFL and look good while playing on his terms. Because if he returns to the MFC team thats the way he will play the same way. Its not good enough and has not been good enough for some time

I am more focussed on his attitude to rectifying his game. From the reports given its a mixed bag. I am concerned the Yze will skim it back in the AFL. He wont last long if he does.

On the contrary MFC deserves better from a supposed "leader" and someone who apologists believe is a marquee player <_< .

[Slartibartfast 17,257]

What is much more important than any of his stats is what's going on inside his head.

From the outside we've got little chance of knowing this.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

What is much more important than any of his stats is what's going on inside his head.

From the outside we've got little chance of knowing this.

Agree with that Fan. And I dont think there has been any significant change there.

[Slartibartfast 17,257]

Agree with that Fan. And I dont think there has been any significant change there.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

While we may not know what is going on his head, I merely expressed a pragmatic view that I dont think its changed based on people's summary of his performance at Sandy. B)

[Gouga 566]

If nothing else Yze is on notice. He knows now that the once impossible, being dropped, is now a reality. For the first time we will see what he is made of.

There are two options:

- He improves his attitude and plays a big role in 2007

- He fails to improve, plays out the year at Sandy, and is then traded

What ND can't allow to happen:

- He holds his spot despite his lack of form, gets his f*^#ing record and is then dropped/goes missing for finals

I'm not reading to much into his performance on Sunday, but I'm not writing him off either.

[BrownlowBruce 1]

Slicing it both ways BB. On one hand you suggest his number of disposals means he isnt lacking form then suggest poor form is harder to break than you think.

In this modern game I have seen player rack up 20+ possessions and been invisible. One of Yze's shortcuts in his footy career to extract the maximum benefit from the minimum effort. At times you get away with it. Other times you dont. It only worked for Yze consistently when he was at the pinnacle of his game..in 2002.

I watched the VFL often. I have watched Yze often. I know what to expect from both. Yze has enough class the skim it in the VFL and look good while playing on his terms. Because if he returns to the MFC team thats the way he will play the same way. Its not good enough and has not been good enough for some time

I am more focussed on his attitude to rectifying his game. From the reports given its a mixed bag. I am concerned the Yze will skim it back in the AFL. He wont last long if he does.

On the contrary MFC deserves better from a supposed "leader" and someone who apologists believe is a marquee player <_< .

slicing it both ways? according to u hes out of form, according to me he was lacking abit of form and now i believe he showed somthin.

he was out of form we all know that but not to the extent people like u make it out to see.

he was asked to perform in the VFL and he DID! dont give me this just did enought crap because 12 tackles is no YZE of 2002 he shows he is keen to pull his head.And u slam it back in his face.

fair enough he may play crap for the rest of his career and go out with sweet and sour memories but lets see if he can improve first. he showed signs.

maybe my opinion is to biest at the opposite end of the scale to urs.

but if u cant accept the fact that he performed on the weekend and has done all he can to try redeem himself, u will never accept him as a good footballer at MFC again.

[bjgc 0]

Next weeks Sandy game will be interesting if Bartram was to play a full game and get about 25 - 30 touches then surely he should be fit enough to be considered for rnd 1. If there was a choice between Bartram and Yze I would definately choose Bartram.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

slicing it both ways? according to u hes out of form, according to me he was lacking abit of form and now i believe he showed somthin.

he was out of form we all know that but not to the extent people like u make it out to see.

he was asked to perform in the VFL and he DID! dont give me this just did enought crap because 12 tackles is no YZE of 2002 he shows he is keen to pull his head.And u slam it back in his face.

fair enough he may play crap for the rest of his career and go out with sweet and sour memories but lets see if he can improve first. he showed signs.

maybe my opinion is to biest at the opposite end of the scale to urs.

but if u cant accept the fact that he performed on the weekend and has done all he can to try redeem himself, u will never accept him as a good footballer at MFC again.

As its an election year I think you have convinced me to vote for the Party that has the best education policy.....biest???...right...biased..got it!

I take it you're the type of fellow that looks up the statistics page in the paper on Monday, looks at the number of disposals and other stats and determines how a bloke plays on the weekend from there.

For the all stats he got he did not dominate. A bloke of Yze's class should have burnt the opposition. He humiliated himself against Richmond and had play two poor practice matches following an ordinary five games to finish 2006. From those that went to the game, the reports are mixed of his input.

Yze will only be good player that consistently justfies his spot in the team again if his attitude changes. Can you work that out from the stats sheets?

BTW, Yze should be congratulated for the 12 tackles laid.....It would have doubled his career aggregate .

Next weeks Sandy game will be interesting if Bartram was to play a full game and get about 25 - 30 touches then surely he should be fit enough to be considered for rnd 1. If there was a choice between Bartram and Yze I would definately choose Bartram.

Bartram and Yze play different roles and I dont think that it will come down to a choice between them. But I support your view that Bartram will give more than Yze....week after week.

[george_on_the_outer 7,590]

There is no doubt that Adem Yze got plenty of games last year simply because the club had no other options due to injuries.

Remember the last couple of rounds, when we had Godders 426, and Phil Read getting games? And we were fortunate that we had kids like Bartram, Dunne,Bate, Bell and CJ fit and playing well enough to be selected on a regular basis.

So let's not write off Adem yet. Yes his position in the side is under threat. Yes he has to show something to justify his continued selection. But even at this stage we have Bartram, Frawley, Wheatley, Sylvia and now Dunne probably missing for round 1.

So who would get a run in the seniors ahead of Adem, even if you wanted to drop him?

He'll be there round 1, but as these other players return......