The List: Where we are at

[dazzledavey36 55,347]

16 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

Baker and ANB on two year deals?

*sigh*

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sportingnews.com/au/amp/afl/news/melbourne-lock-away-eight-young-players-for-2020-season/4uk11ik6qbgt1ir5l4go0a934

Baker and Neal-Bullen have both signed two-year deals to remain at the club until at least 2021, while Dunkley, Smith, Chandler, Lockhart and the Wagner brothers have all penned one year deals.

[NeveroddoreveN 1,034]

26 minutes ago, Forest Demon said:

We have had too many players drop away sharply this year and last, and sadly I can’t see many of them getting back to where they were previously.

Im thinking guys like TMac, Melksham, Brayshaw, Harmes, Jetta, VDB, Fritsch, Jones.

And nobody has emerged from the pack besides last year’s draftees. So many on the chopping block who have not been able to step up like Baker, Wagner x 2, Dunkley, Bedford, Hunt, Hannan, Chandler etc.

None of them really get the chance....would prefer to pick McDonalds/Melkshams/Jones for way too long when they are out of form for large parts of seasons, not just within games!  And when we decide to bring in some inexperienced ones we bring in too many.  Or they are not quite ready. Or they play well and inexplicably are dropped the following week.  Way too many favorites....reminds me of playing U16 footy with a coach who severely disliked my father and quite often did weird things with me like getting to a Grand Final then not putting me on the ground until 5 minutes into last quarter. That last quarter i was so mad i almost turned game around and had many adults approach me after the game asking why i was not on sooner.   Rewards night every player got some trophy or votes within games....i got not one haha.  Had played forward/ruck for most of year and had few bags of 4 and 5 goals and was far from the worst.  Goody is not an Under 16's coach but i see the similarities of playing faves.  Any coach worth his salt has to rise above being so petulant.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

7 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sportingnews.com/au/amp/afl/news/melbourne-lock-away-eight-young-players-for-2020-season/4uk11ik6qbgt1ir5l4go0a934

Baker and Neal-Bullen have both signed two-year deals to remain at the club until at least 2021, while Dunkley, Smith, Chandler, Lockhart and the Wagner brothers have all penned one year deals.

I believe you - I'm sighing from despair

[poita 3,902]

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-2020-22under22-squad-aflpa-40man-squad-best-young-players-gold-coast-suns-young-stars-who-made-it/news-story/3b403fdafbbc42d5648ae71c38bb5f7c

Hardly surprising given our woeful drafting and player management over the past four years, but Melbourne are one of only two teams without a player in the 40 man under 22 squad.

That is a massive hole to fill in 3-4 years time when players in this age group will be forming the nucleus of premiership sides. Thanks for nothing, Taylor and Mahoney.

[Deesprate 1,324]

4 minutes ago, poita said:

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-2020-22under22-squad-aflpa-40man-squad-best-young-players-gold-coast-suns-young-stars-who-made-it/news-story/3b403fdafbbc42d5648ae71c38bb5f7c

Hardly surprising given our woeful drafting and player management over the past four years, but Melbourne are one of only two teams without a player in the 40 man under 22 squad.

That is a massive hole to fill in 3-4 years time when players in this age group will be forming the nucleus of premiership sides. Thanks for nothing, Taylor and Mahoney.

Yes last night was bad but it pale into insignificance compared to the view moving forward. This is just so incredibly damning and fill me with dread that we peaked in 2018 and we are on downward spiral. Can anyone provide me with evidence to the contrary. The football department and it recruiting has been a disaster since Roos left. Make the most of nearly making the eight as it is probably the best we can hope for in the next 3-5 years. Our Board and Chair have backed Goodwin and his merry men and can’t be accused of not being patient. There has to be serious change that at least give the supporter base hope and a feeling that where not just drifting aimlessly.

[Demon17 5,203]

15 minutes ago, poita said:

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-2020-22under22-squad-aflpa-40man-squad-best-young-players-gold-coast-suns-young-stars-who-made-it/news-story/3b403fdafbbc42d5648ae71c38bb5f7c

Hardly surprising given our woeful drafting and player management over the past four years, but Melbourne are one of only two teams without a player in the 40 man under 22 squad.

That is a massive hole to fill in 3-4 years time when players in this age group will be forming the nucleus of premiership sides. Thanks for nothing, Taylor and Mahoney.

Not 1 player named in AA Under 22 squad this morning.

[bobby1554 1,261]

On 9/4/2020 at 12:52 PM, Elegt said:

Our depth is appaling, as demonstrated last night. I believe the majority of supporters overrate our list.

Agree. Add to that the coaching staff are unable to progress the few good players we have. Unless the club changes this soon, even the good players we have will seek to further their careers elsewhere

[Half forward flank 1,022]

Never forget some say Goodwin was leaked interview, casual as it was, questions by Mahoney, his SA mate. It now makes sense as Goodwin would not have the brains to think on his feet in an interview. A SA coach was always going to be a cultural bridge too far, especially with an uneducated one with no experience outside of footy.

[Deesprate 1,324]

41 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

Never forget some say Goodwin was leaked interview, casual as it was, questions by Mahoney, his SA mate. It now makes sense as Goodwin would not have the brains to think on his feet in an interview. A SA coach was always going to be a cultural bridge too far, especially with an uneducated one with no experience outside of footy.

“Some say”how Donald Trump. I am no fan of Goodwin but pretty unfair to say this without evidence. 

[drdrake 3,187]

48 minutes ago, Demon17 said:

Not 1 player named in AA Under 22 squad this morning.

I think next year we will have Rivers and Jackson on this list.  Don't forget we had a couple of years prior to last that we didn't have a first round pick.

We just don't have any team structures, our mids don't play for each other.  Still think we are a couple of mids and another tall forward away.  Shows the level of skill in our side, a 7 game first year player Rivers was chartered with our point kick ins.

[DeePressed 114]

Keep: Gawn, Oliver, Petracca, May, Jackson, Pickett, Rivers, Bennell, Weideman, Sparrow, Fritsch, Langdon.

Everyone else is on the chopping block for trade or compost heap

[DeePressed 114]

1 hour ago, poita said:

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-2020-22under22-squad-aflpa-40man-squad-best-young-players-gold-coast-suns-young-stars-who-made-it/news-story/3b403fdafbbc42d5648ae71c38bb5f7c

Hardly surprising given our woeful drafting and player management over the past four years, but Melbourne are one of only two teams without a player in the 40 man under 22 squad.

That is a massive hole to fill in 3-4 years time when players in this age group will be forming the nucleus of premiership sides. Thanks for nothing, Taylor and Mahoney.

Since McCartney left, youth development has been non-existent. Petracca only player to improve. Near enough is good enough attitude can [censored] right off. 

[Half forward flank 1,022]

36 minutes ago, Deesprate said:

“Some say”how Donald Trump. I am no fan of Goodwin but pretty unfair to say this without evidence. 

So you say. I do not care. It is what I heard. Footy world would not exist without stories handed down from one to the other. Never been in a pub or workplace?  No evidence as such, have a source though and do your own thinking. Judging by what we have seen of Goodwin in Press conferences and interviews is he a flexible thinker. Could he come up  with alternate game strategies as would be posed in an interview on the spot. We have seen no evidence of that in 4 years so far.  Roos was sucked in as he couldnt wait to pick up his $$$ and get out of the place. Maybe not to you but it is an embarresment to me to have an Essendon coach looking after our young men. pass the needle.

[kallangurdemon 551]

we just arent good enough . If our A or B  graders ,few as they are , dont have a day out we are not capable of beating anyone .I have locked myself in  for a long period of misery .

[Demon17 5,203]

1 hour ago, drdrake said:

I think next year we will have Rivers and Jackson on this list.  Don't forget we had a couple of years prior to last that we didn't have a first round pick.

We just don't have any team structures, our mids don't play for each other.  Still think we are a couple of mids and another tall forward away.  Shows the level of skill in our side, a 7 game first year player Rivers was chartered with our point kick ins.

I'm hoping jackson is the tall forward solution. I just don't see weideman making it sadly. Hope I'm wrong and 1 more preseason might see him improve strength wise.

Main recruit mandatory is a good forward coach that goodwin will support.

[Deesprate 1,324]

53 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

So you say. I do not care. It is what I heard. Footy world would not exist without stories handed down from one to the other. Never been in a pub or workplace?  No evidence as such, have a source though and do your own thinking. Judging by what we have seen of Goodwin in Press conferences and interviews is he a flexible thinker. Could he come up  with alternate game strategies as would be posed in an interview on the spot. We have seen no evidence of that in 4 years so far.  Roos was sucked in as he couldnt wait to pick up his $$$ and get out of the place. Maybe not to you but it is an embarresment to me to have an Essendon coach looking after our young men. pass the needle.

Your entitled to your views and have no issue with your other comments. Many thing are said in a pub I don’t think it necessarily equates to putting something in writing. But as I say rack to there own

[BW511 2,688]

Would like Diesel Williams to have a word to our guys after reading his comments on Paddy Dow. 

I think that is typical for a lot of our side.

Also, Cripps went and sought him (Williams) out to get better, can’t imagine our guys doing that

[drdrake 3,187]

13 minutes ago, Demon17 said:

I'm hoping jackson is the tall forward solution. I just don't see weideman making it sadly. Hope I'm wrong and 1 more preseason might see him improve strength wise.

Main recruit mandatory is a good forward coach that goodwin will support.

I think Weiderman could be a 40-50 goal a year forward if he played in a side that could kick.  That lead and mark last night he can do that all night we just don't have the ability to move the ball fast enough and hit him up.  The only thing which I hope he sorts out is above the head contested marking he still is getting good purchase on the ball and not hanging on.  Work rate he has improved, like a lot of tall forwards not a big defensive side but that is for blokes under 6 foot.

Jackson and Weiderman complement each other, Weiderman is a deep inside 50m type, Jackson is on your bike running high type.  Playing Preuss/Tmac with Weiderman all three are deep forwards and get in each others way.

[DeePressed 114]

As unpopular as this sounds I'd be possibly put Viney on the trade table

I'm not convinced his game style is current. If we could get good value for him trading for a proper A grade target i'd be interested. But only if.

[Elegt 872]

4 hours ago, poita said:

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-2020-22under22-squad-aflpa-40man-squad-best-young-players-gold-coast-suns-young-stars-who-made-it/news-story/3b403fdafbbc42d5648ae71c38bb5f7c

Hardly surprising given our woeful drafting and player management over the past four years, but Melbourne are one of only two teams without a player in the 40 man under 22 squad.

That is a massive hole to fill in 3-4 years time when players in this age group will be forming the nucleus of premiership sides. Thanks for nothing, Taylor and Mahoney.

Yep, and everyone here was defending Jason Taylor when I criticised him. He seems to have a love for slow inside midfielders and forwards who are allergic to the ball.

[bobby1554 1,261]

1 hour ago, DeePressed said:

As unpopular as this sounds I'd be possibly put Viney on the trade table

I'm not convinced his game style is current. If we could get good value for him trading for a proper A grade target i'd be interested. But only if.

He is a restricted free agent, so other clubs do not have to trade for him. If he wants to go, we either accept it, and get a compensatory draft pick based on his contract value, or we match the offer and he stays.

[BW511 2,688]

I firmly believe we need more skill and leg speed, but I also believe we could do with a midfield & forward general who can call the shots and keep everyone on page. A true onfield leader - Think Pendles, Selwood, Danger, Boak or similar in the middle

I’d say we are still 5-6 best 22 players off the upper echelon. Two more proper guns and then 4-5 players that are always in the side because they turn up and perform every week.

Aside from Max (Arguably), we don’t have a single player that would be the best in the comp for their position. Realistically we only have 3-4 players that anyone else would want to actively chase. Compare that with Richmond, WCE, Brisbane, GWS or Geelong and you can see just how far off we are.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 8, 2020 by BW511

[Deespicable 2,886]

I reckon our list is pretty good and aside from having 2-3 too many players under 6 foot, it is a well balanced outfit and unlike five years ago, we now have some genuine stars (at least on paper).

To me the real issue is finding a coach that can provide a gameplan that our guys have confidence in. The fact Fremantle were able to switch and spot up players with short kicks so often last night just made it clearer than ever to me that whilst Goodwin may be popular with lots of the players, he hasn't been able to get a game-winning structure. I also don't understand why our guys so rarely are seen shepherding and screening out for teammates like other sides do and I question whether our zone defence ever actually works as well as other sides given that we rarely get as many intercept marks as other sides. So No.1 list requirement now is a new coach. 

When it comes to our list I actually reckon with our three inclusions this year, we are close to having a genuinely strong balanced side and there are very few deficiencies. It's not like last year when we suddenly felt we needed outside run and got in Langdon. Obviously it would help with a touch of class up forward, finding another hard-chasing, hard-working midfielder with tats and another long-kicking defender but really the main thing is finding a coach that instils the confidence to be both daring and clever - Oliver being the case in point.

[Jjrogan 1,439]

22 minutes ago, Deespicable said:

I reckon our list is pretty good and aside from having 2-3 too many players under 6 foot, it is a well balanced outfit and unlike five years ago, we now have some genuine stars (at least on paper).

To me the real issue is finding a coach that can provide a gameplan that our guys have confidence in. The fact Fremantle were able to switch and spot up players with short kicks so often last night just made it clearer than ever to me that whilst Goodwin may be popular with lots of the players, he hasn't been able to get a game-winning structure. I also don't understand why our guys so rarely are seen shepherding and screening out for teammates like other sides do and I question whether our zone defence ever actually works as well as other sides given that we rarely get as many intercept marks as other sides. So No.1 list requirement now is a new coach. 

When it comes to our list I actually reckon with our three inclusions this year, we are close to having a genuinely strong balanced side and there are very few deficiencies. It's not like last year when we suddenly felt we needed outside run and got in Langdon. Obviously it would help with a touch of class up forward, finding another hard-chasing, hard-working midfielder with tats and another long-kicking defender but really the main thing is finding a coach that instils the confidence to be both daring and clever - Oliver being the case in point.

I agree on the list and the number one requirement. 

we are actually the number one team in the league for intercepts.

But we are also the number one team for turnovers. 

 We have to switch out some hard working, poor decision making, turnover merchants. 3-4 in a team you can hide. We have 6-8 that run out every week.  

Edited September 8, 2020 by Jjrogan

[TRIGON 4,790]

On 9/8/2020 at 11:35 AM, drdrake said:

I think Weiderman could be a 40-50 goal a year forward if he played in a side that could kick.  That lead and mark last night he can do that all night we just don't have the ability to move the ball fast enough and hit him up.  The only thing which I hope he sorts out is above the head contested marking he still is getting good purchase on the ball and not hanging on.  Work rate he has improved, like a lot of tall forwards not a big defensive side but that is for blokes under 6 foot.

Jackson and Weiderman complement each other, Weiderman is a deep inside 50m type, Jackson is on your bike running high type.  Playing Preuss/Tmac with Weiderman all three are deep forwards and get in each others way.

Was thinking that too this morning @drdrake; with better delivery that's the output to expect from him.