The first one to drop is Jackson. He is not an AFL player yet and may not be for 3-4 years. He just does not do enough and we lose a runner if we play Jackson as only second ruck because that is all he can be relied on to do. If Jackson wants a place in this team he has to be able to take  contested marks and kick set shot goals regularly. We will continue to lose if we insist he is ready to play. 

Jackson should not have been in last week's team, while he didn't do anything wrong the only thing he did right was play in a winning team. To pick him vs Port and go in with three talls was stupid, no teams do it. Why we thought we could win doing it is coaching incompetence. Just dropping Jackson and adding more run would helped vs Lions and vs Port. A few fans here roared me down for suggesting TMac would be more useful vs Lions as Jackson is way more mobile. This is nonsense Jackson is slow and does not know were to go, this is not his fault. He is young and needs development. TMac was more useful than Jackson vs Port. 

Considering we were playing a runner down, most of the team were doing their best to adjust. If we make another change it would be more to have a look at someone than to relegate someone. The reality is that I don't think we have any better replacements on the sidelines.  We lost it at the selection table and in the coaches box. It is hard for a team to get behind an inept coach. This is what I saw in our play. We were beaten by a much fitter and harder team who showed desire. 

Jordon or Bedford might be worth a look but apart from Jackson, I am not sure who should go out. We could try Tomlinson as spare parts interchange but I can't think of anybody in the team who is not better at their job than Tomlinson is. Bennell has to be able to go 4 quarters instead of 2 and needs to improve his defence and 2 way running. We looked soft against Port. Melksham and Harmes are not looking like the hard nuts they were in the past. AVB offers the hardness but not much else. I see only a couple of possible changes.    

20 minutes ago, Mental Demons said:

The first one to drop is Jackson. He is not an AFL player yet and may not be for 3-4 years. He just does not do enough and we lose a runner if we play Jackson as only second ruck because that is all he can be relied on to do. If Jackson wants a place in this team he has to be able to take  contested marks and kick set shot goals regularly. We will continue to lose if we insist he is ready to play. 

Jackson should not have been in last week's team, while he didn't do anything wrong the only thing he did right was play in a winning team. To pick him vs Port and go in with three talls was stupid, no teams do it. Why we thought we could win doing it is coaching incompetence. Just dropping Jackson and adding more run would helped vs Lions and vs Port. A few fans here roared me down for suggesting TMac would be more useful vs Lions as Jackson is way more mobile. This is nonsense Jackson is slow and does not know were to go, this is not his fault. He is young and needs development. TMac was more useful than Jackson vs Port. 

Considering we were playing a runner down, most of the team were doing their best to adjust. If we make another change it would be more to have a look at someone than to relegate someone. The reality is that I don't think we have any better replacements on the sidelines.  We lost it at the selection table and in the coaches box. It is hard for a team to get behind an inept coach. This is what I saw in our play. We were beaten by a much fitter and harder team who showed desire. 

Jordon or Bedford might be worth a look but apart from Jackson, I am not sure who should go out. We could try Tomlinson as spare parts interchange but I can't think of anybody in the team who is not better at their job than Tomlinson is. Bennell has to be able to go 4 quarters instead of 2 and needs to improve his defence and 2 way running. We looked soft against Port. Melksham and Harmes are not looking like the hard nuts they were in the past. AVB offers the hardness but not much else. I see only a couple of possible changes.    

So if we drop Jackson, are we playing one tall in Weiderman? Because there is absolutely no way you can drop Jackson and somehow mount a case to keep TMac in the team, he was abysmal last night, and has been for quite some time.

2 minutes ago, Jerry Lundergard said:

So if we drop Jackson, are we playing one tall in Weiderman? Because there is absolutely no way you can drop Jackson and somehow mount a case to keep TMac in the team, he was abysmal last night, and has been for quite some time.

The whole team was abysmal vs Port. Weid was ordinary for the second week in a row. Jackson was our most unproductive tall. At least TMac can take a contested mark and can kick a set shot goal. I did not mention dropping TMac, sorry if you don't like my opinion.

10 hours ago, Fatmanblues883 said:

Well, that game has put us back so much.

So incredibly hard to watch till the end.

Was it the four day break? Was it we just not turn on at the required level (which happens to all teams at some stage)? Or maybe, we are just not that good

No need for knee jerk action

I would drop Kossie and Jackson – they have had a taste – let their bodies now mature and get hard

To me (and what would I know), some players are being played in the wrong position – where was Brayshaw in 2018 – the centre – put him back there; where was Harmes at his best – as an attacking tagger – give him that role again

Bring back Tomlinson and give James Jordan a crack

Other changes - possibly

Anyways, after my initial depression and disgust, I slept well, the sun came up, Victoria is still in lockdown and I’ll continue to be a tragic Demon

 

It's all well and good to say put Brayshaw in the centre and play Harmes as a tagger but they were in those positions when Petracca was playing limited midfield minutes and Viney was injured. Viney, Petracca and Oliver are our starting mids, you need to shift them out of the centre if you want to give Brayshaw and Harmes more midfield minutes and Brayshaw and Harmes at not as good as any if those three. Perhaps Viney could go forward but then we lose the drive he gives us like he did in the final quarter vs Lions. Perhaps Oliver could go forward but he has never been a proven goalkicker.

If Brayshaw/Harmes can't play wing or either half-back/forward then they are nothing but depth and really surplus to requirements.

49 minutes ago, Mental Demons said:

The first one to drop is Jackson. He is not an AFL player yet and may not be for 3-4 years. He just does not do enough and we lose a runner if we play Jackson as only second ruck because that is all he can be relied on to do. If Jackson wants a place in this team he has to be able to take  contested marks and kick set shot goals regularly. We will continue to lose if we insist he is ready to play. 

Jackson should not have been in last week's team, while he didn't do anything wrong the only thing he did right was play in a winning team. To pick him vs Port and go in with three talls was stupid, no teams do it. Why we thought we could win doing it is coaching incompetence. Just dropping Jackson and adding more run would helped vs Lions and vs Port. A few fans here roared me down for suggesting TMac would be more useful vs Lions as Jackson is way more mobile. This is nonsense Jackson is slow and does not know were to go, this is not his fault. He is young and needs development. TMac was more useful than Jackson vs Port. 

Considering we were playing a runner down, most of the team were doing their best to adjust. If we make another change it would be more to have a look at someone than to relegate someone. The reality is that I don't think we have any better replacements on the sidelines.  We lost it at the selection table and in the coaches box. It is hard for a team to get behind an inept coach. This is what I saw in our play. We were beaten by a much fitter and harder team who showed desire. 

Jordon or Bedford might be worth a look but apart from Jackson, I am not sure who should go out. We could try Tomlinson as spare parts interchange but I can't think of anybody in the team who is not better at their job than Tomlinson is. Bennell has to be able to go 4 quarters instead of 2 and needs to improve his defence and 2 way running. We looked soft against Port. Melksham and Harmes are not looking like the hard nuts they were in the past. AVB offers the hardness but not much else. I see only a couple of possible changes.    

How did your mate McDonald go then hey? You were pushing for Jackson to be dropped for that flop instead last week yeah?

Same McDonald that ran around like a fat headless chook who at once stage couldn't even find his foot to the ball.

Funny how the Weid/Jackson worked a whole lot better until your mate came and [censored] our forward system up.

Edited July 31, 20205 yr by dazzledavey36

1 minute ago, dazzledavey36 said:

How did your mate McDonald go then hey? You were pushing for Jackson to be dropped for that flop instead last week yeah?

I think you can read what I have said. He took a contested mark, something Jackson is yet to do.TMac was much more useful and has experience. What did Jackson do? 

36 minutes ago, Mental Demons said:

I think you can read what I have said. He took a contested mark, something Jackson is yet to do.TMac was much more useful and has experience. What did Jackson do? 

Jackson can ruck, follow up and get ground balls. He can also contest and bring the ball to ground, something which TMac has barely done all season even though he has been our No.1 target.

37 minutes ago, Mental Demons said:

I think you can read what I have said. He took a contested mark, something Jackson is yet to do.TMac was much more useful and has experience. What did Jackson do? 

Mate he was pathetic. The guy has played 167 games and out that whole game you were happy that he took a contested mark and run around like a training cone.

Again read what I wrote. Its no coincidence that against Hawthorn Gold Coast and Brisbane our forward line functioned so much better without Tmac.

Took a contested mark.. LOL

11 minutes ago, Jerry Lundergard said:

Jackson can ruck, follow up and get ground balls. He can also contest and bring the ball to ground, something which TMac has barely done all season even though he has been our No.1 target.

I don't agree and I will be very surprised if Jackson is in the team next week. That is of course if there is anybody in our footy dept with a football brain. We were top heavy and Jackson does not do enough.

46 minutes ago, Mental Demons said:

I don't agree and I will be very surprised if Jackson is in the team next week. That is of course if there is anybody in our footy dept with a football brain. We were top heavy and Jackson does not do enough.

Really among all our talls you can't name one that did anything decent on the night. Everyone floundered around like headless chooks. 

You may well be right that Jackson doesn't play but I would expect that would be more to do with management than anything as vs GC and Hawks he definitely contributed positively. 

If Tom does somehow remain in the team (perhaps they will give him one more chance against weaker opposition) he'd want to pull out a bloody good game because what we saw from him vs Port was up there with Spargo's effort against WC in round one. He looks slow, really really slow, and miss his one chance in the night to contribute positively.

I personally wouldn't be against both Jackson and TMac being dropped for Brown and Tomlinson. Tomlinson can return to the wing to get us some outside run (we looked slow as a team on Thursday) and Brown can get his shot to be considered as our second tall option.

Things could be worse 

We could have Bellchambers on our list

Not so much a change but maybe a change of tactic, do we give Oliver a run with role on a leading opposition midfielder to teach him a little bit more about accountability and at the same time give Brayshaw more of an opportunity as an extractor. Just a thought, nothing more.

1 hour ago, Mental Demons said:

I don't agree and I will be very surprised if Jackson is in the team next week. That is of course if there is anybody in our footy dept with a football brain. We were top heavy and Jackson does not do enough.

You're right about one thing 'Mental'...we were too top heavy.

The selection of Tommy Mac was a poor one.

The best our forward half have connected & functioned in recent times was over the last 3 weeks, pretty much from the time Tommy left the ground with his eye issue.

If anybody in our football department showed some sense they won't repeat the mistake again.

Jackson with Wied gives us a functional forward half.

Add AVB & Bennell then we have a chance of a winning score.

50 minutes ago, Old Bear said:

Things could be worse 

We could have Bellchambers on our list

Who's to say we wont recruit him

Out -   Jones, Harmes, Brayshaw,  T McDonald,  Hannan

In -    Bennell,  Vandenberg, Bedford, Rivers, Tomlinson

Pickett and Fritsch very lucky. 

Id like to see Pickett and Bedford together , I thought they had some nice synergy in Round 1.   Crazy that Bedford hasn't been sighted since then but we keep gifting games to players that havent had a kick in a weeks.

7 hours ago, Pickett2Jackson said:

Out -   Jones, Harmes, Brayshaw,  T McDonald,  Hannan

In -    Bennell,  Vandenberg, Bedford, Rivers, Tomlinson

Pickett and Fritsch very lucky. 

Id like to see Pickett and Bedford together , I thought they had some nice synergy in Round 1.   Crazy that Bedford hasn't been sighted since then but we keep gifting games to players that havent had a kick in a weeks.

I agree with the outs. Jones too slow, Harmes too fumbly, Brayshaw too ineffective, Tom too cumbersome and Hannan goes awol far too much. In fact I can't see how we can play either Jones or Hannan unless we become dynamite everywhere else. I hope Brayshaw & Harmes find their true possies not half back and wing. Also we must change our bomb it to the forwards game - it's so dumb. We play like a bunch of dumb-asses. We will kill our supporter base unless we change. I just realised I've supported this mob for over 50 years without a premiership - 1964 was so long ago and we really need to work towards getting one before 2064.

Edited July 31, 20205 yr by cantstandyasam

9 hours ago, rjay said:

Jackson with Wied gives us a functional forward half.

Nonsense Jackson is yet to take a contested mark and is yet to kick a set shot goal. These are not the skills to get a game in any forward line. Jackson was a waste of a draft pick as we don't need his best skills. He s a project player and will not have much to offer for 4-5 years. There were better ready to go picks. Worse than picking him the first place is playing him too early. It would seem that the powers that be want to prove he was the best pick. Nobody is convinced he is a player that will make our team better in a in a hurry, he is a passenger not a play-maker. I doubt he will get another run this year bar an injury to Max. 

12 hours ago, Mental Demons said:

The first one to drop is Jackson. He is not an AFL player yet and may not be for 3-4 years. He just does not do enough and we lose a runner if we play Jackson as only second ruck because that is all he can be relied on to do. If Jackson wants a place in this team he has to be able to take  contested marks and kick set shot goals regularly. We will continue to lose if we insist he is ready to play. 

Jackson should not have been in last week's team, while he didn't do anything wrong the only thing he did right was play in a winning team. To pick him vs Port and go in with three talls was stupid, no teams do it. Why we thought we could win doing it is coaching incompetence. Just dropping Jackson and adding more run would helped vs Lions and vs Port. A few fans here roared me down for suggesting TMac would be more useful vs Lions as Jackson is way more mobile. This is nonsense Jackson is slow and does not know were to go, this is not his fault. He is young and needs development. TMac was more useful than Jackson vs Port. 

Considering we were playing a runner down, most of the team were doing their best to adjust. If we make another change it would be more to have a look at someone than to relegate someone. The reality is that I don't think we have any better replacements on the sidelines.  We lost it at the selection table and in the coaches box. It is hard for a team to get behind an inept coach. This is what I saw in our play. We were beaten by a much fitter and harder team who showed desire. 

Jordon or Bedford might be worth a look but apart from Jackson, I am not sure who should go out. We could try Tomlinson as spare parts interchange but I can't think of anybody in the team who is not better at their job than Tomlinson is. Bennell has to be able to go 4 quarters instead of 2 and needs to improve his defence and 2 way running. We looked soft against Port. Melksham and Harmes are not looking like the hard nuts they were in the past. AVB offers the hardness but not much else. I see only a couple of possible changes.    

 

AVB adds some leadership and confidence to the younger players as does Bennell to Pickett 

18 minutes ago, Mental Demons said:

Nonsense Jackson is yet to take a contested mark and is yet to kick a set shot goal. These are not the skills to get a game in any forward line. Jackson was a waste of a draft pick as we don't need his best skills. He s a project player and will not have much to offer for 4-5 years. There were better ready to go picks. Worse than picking him the first place is playing him too early. It would seem that the powers that be want to prove he was the best pick. Nobody is convinced he is a player that will make our team better in a in a hurry, he is a passenger not a play-maker. I doubt he will get another run this year bar an injury to Max. 

You have no idea...

20 minutes ago, Dido said:

AVB adds some leadership and confidence to the younger players as does Bennell to Pickett 

nonsense AvB has been close to our most unproductive in every game he has played this year. He adds hardness but his disposal is awful, not a good example for youngsters. What youngsters? we only have 2. Bennell can only last a couple of quarters and is not fit enough. Pckett has been picked a couple of games this year ahead of Bennell. Pickett has upside and has earned his place, he does not need Bennell for a mentor. 

12 hours ago, Mental Demons said:

I think you can read what I have said. He took a contested mark, something Jackson is yet to do.TMac was much more useful and has experience. What did Jackson do? 

Was that the contested mark he took 5 m out near the goal square and promptly kicked a behind?

29 minutes ago, rjay said:

You have no idea...

No he doesn't. Absolute clueless.

Reading his [censored] last week was a glimpse. Going to get worse I'm afraid. 

I may have gone over the top after that disgusting performance so here is my second chance of putting a team together.

B: LOCKHART, MAY, LEVER

HB:RIVERS, T.MCDONALD, HIBBERD

C : LANGDON, PETRACCA, SALEM

HF: PICKETT, JACKSON, BENNELL

F: MELKSHAM, WEIDEMAN, FRITSCH

FOLL: GAWN, OLIVER, VINEY

IC: VANDENBERG, HARMES, BRAYSHAW, SPARROW

IN: RIVERS, BENNELL, VANDENBERG

OUT: O.MCDONALD, HANNAN, JONES

Jones first out.  Thanks for sticking with us, you were a good, not great player. We paid you well, next.

Hannan, stop walking like a tough guy with your elbows out and run to the pack, not around it, 

Brayshaw. take a week off, genuinely relax, come back and have a fair dinkum talk about if you want to continue playing footy  or whether you are just doing it for the $$$.

Harmes, go away and listen to what Tommy Hafey said to Kevin Sheedy when he got fancy. "Go back to being a back pocket plumber type of player".

Tmac. Take a week off, you are an intelligent guy and lets have a heart to heart talk about your future when you come back.

Now, the rest of you are on notice.

Out: Brayshaw, Jones, TMac, Fritsch

In: Tomlinson, Neale Bullen,  Brown, Bennell

Would love to have Vanders back in the side but think that he would not yet have fully  recovered.