On 19/07/2020 at 10:40, Dr.D said:

Today showed how far off being a good coach he is. I'd love a please explain as to why Weideman wasn't in the team when he clearly makes us better. 

Maybe just maybe he wasnt ready fitness wise or his game wasn't ready, he had things to work on?

Now that he has fixed those thing we are seeing the benefit. If he was played earlier before he was ready we may have not. Its called good coaching.

  On 20/07/2020 at 00:42, Fifty-5 said:

Goodwin is a brave innovator.  He thought there was an opportunity in this weird season to select a very pacy dynamic athletic line-up to get the jump on the competition, hence the selection of Hunt and Smith but it didn't work and he's reverted to a more traditional line-up with the talls at both ends - even then he's shown his courage to select Jackson ahead of Brown.

I think the key thing is that with the "Richmond-style" gameplan you need footballers-first to execute because it's frenetic and you need to be able to rely on instinctive skills.  I think athletes like Hunt, Smith and ANB who lack innate football skills are not suited to the style.  We've been blessed/lucky that we have footballers we can bring in like Bennell, Lockhart, Langdon, Hannan, OMac, Weid and the return to desperation in Hibberd.  Of course it helps when you add incredible athletes who can also play the game like Kosi and Jacko.

I agree absolutely with the game style needing natural footballers, but I actually think Richmond's game style has become far less frenetic over the last 3 years. It was in 2017, but IMO they play a very predictable (in a good way) gut running style that sees lots of kicks to contests, but there are always crumbers at the foot of those packs, and waves of runners in support. I think this is what we replicated so well yesterday and was less evident against Gold Coast. Richmond also set their defensive zone back behind their wave like we did yesterday, so I think we are intent on replicating a mix of contested Richmond, Collingwood and uncontested Hawthorn/Geelong, but I would argue our midfield is stronger than all of those midfields, certainly playing at their peaks.

As long as we don't get cruelled by injuries and don't tinker too much at the selection table, our team should get some continuity together now and with this, will come confidence and consistency, which IMV will have us top 2 or 3 in the competition. It's about focus and work rate from here on out.

Edited July 20, 20204 yr by A F

  On 19/07/2020 at 13:45, A F said:

It's essentially Richmond's game plan with a bit of 2018 Melbourne thrown in. We're finally seeing the plan A and B. The ability to play tempo when necessary. But the zone we played today was a high press, but then it had about a 20m gap again between the next reinforcement. We set up beautifully today.

It's definitely built for finals, but unlike Richmond, if Gawn, Oliver, Petracca and Viney get going, it's too much for an opposition to counter and I think if they can find a level of consistency, in many ways we've got a greater ceiling than Richmond. 

What we have lacked that the great Hawthorn sides had and Richmond over the past 3 seasons, is that cleverness and creativeness around the stoppages and the forward half to create scoring chances and keep the ball moving forward. That ability to keep the pressure high on the opposition and capitalise when there's a chance to score. 

This is why I love the inclusion of Kozzie and Bennell, and even Jackson. They're clever, crafty, clean players that have great awareness and if they can stay fit, this will really give us another string to our bow.

????

Richmond happy to loose at contested ball and win it back with intercepts/turnovers

Melbourne first and strongest option is to win the contested ball.

  On 20/07/2020 at 00:57, Fat Tony said:

It wouldn't bother me if Goodwin was watching re-runs of The Simpsons in the box. As long as we win.

C'mon, opportunity missed, reruns of Anger Management

  On 19/07/2020 at 13:07, Sir Why You Little said:

You have no idea who i am in contact with, and i will never out a source. 
They have been pretty close to the mark over the last 6-7 years and i plan to keep it that way  

Yes i am getting it second hand from someone who was involved, that is why they were able to tell me what occurred with some authority. 

That is how a source operates...

Second hand sums it up completely

And same goes for a lot of posters on here, who have 'contact's within the club

I have heard nothing about Goodwin being told, in fact, the opposite, everybody just ignoring the noise

I think I would go with Chain when asked a direct question

Edited July 20, 20204 yr by Satyriconhome

  On 20/07/2020 at 02:14, Grimes Times said:

????

Richmond happy to loose at contested ball and win it back with intercepts/turnovers

Melbourne first and strongest option is to win the contested ball.

Surely you don't think Richmond's only game is to lose contested ball and win it back with intercept/turnovers.

Elements of our game style are very Richmond for the reasons I've mentioned, such as the way we're exiting defence and when we're held up, going to contests with crumbers and waves of runners in support. That's very Richmond.

And the reason I've said our ceiling is higher than Richmond's is our ability to win contested ball and dominate possession if we don't turn it over.

  On 20/07/2020 at 02:23, Satyriconhome said:

Second hand sums it up completely

And same goes for a lot of posters on here, who have 'contact's within the club

I have heard nothing about Goodwin being told, in fact, the opposite, everybody just ignoring the noise

I think I would go with Chain when asked a direct question

You have heard nothing, so what i have been told must be incorrect...

 

 

Edited July 20, 20204 yr by Sir Why You Little

  On 20/07/2020 at 02:24, A F said:

Surely you don't think Richmond's only game is to lose contested ball and win it back with intercept/turnovers.

Elements of our game style are very Richmond for the reasons I've mentioned, such as the way we're exiting defence and when we're held up, going to contests with crumbers and waves of runners in support. That's very Richmond.

And the reason I've said our ceiling is higher than Richmond's is our ability to win contested ball and dominate possession if we don't turn it over.

Elements of game style is different to essentially Richmond game style but yes I agree.

  On 20/07/2020 at 02:28, Sir Why You Little said:

You have heard nothing, so what i have been told must be incorrect...

 

 

You're trying too hard. I don't believe you.

  On 19/07/2020 at 15:43, Sir Why You Little said:

What are you talking about??

What you talking about?? what was said to make Goodwin show more emotions

  On 20/07/2020 at 04:03, Axis of Bob said:

You're trying too hard. I don't believe you.

Good for you,  I am not trying at all

Passing on some information to those who are interested...

 

  On 19/07/2020 at 07:43, NQLDemon said:

I don't know about you, but I needed the channel 7 cameras to capture Goodwin smashing the desk after a poor effort in the D50 that led to a Hawks goal. With "Goody',  It's always the smirk or the blank, thousand yard stare, or even the Krusty the Klown face. but for the first time, I saw some passion for the club from the coach. Thank God.  For me, a great sign. I'd love to know if others felt this was a watershed moment. 

Same here , at long last a sign of emotion rather than the detached look like he's looking at the aftermath of a car accident 

In the words of a broken heart
It's just emotion that's taken me over
Tied up in sorrow, lost in my soul
But if you don't come back
Come home to me, darling
You know that there'll be nobody left in this world to hold me tight
Nobody left in this world to kiss goodnight
Goodnight
Goodnight

  On 19/07/2020 at 12:42, binman said:

Great post Rusty.

I'd add that another change has been playing more tempo footy and being a bit more patient with our ball movement.

We are still looking to pull the trigger though, which makes us an exciting team to watch when it comes together as it has in the last couple of weeks where have scored goals with quick, aggressive ball movement - as we di so often in 2018.

And like 2018 when on we run in waves with 2 or 3 players in a line as the ball sweeps forward as an option for the handball.

The thing that remains the same is the commitment to pressure, tackling and contest out footy. Footy built for finals.

It looked good and sure felt good. There were options that paid off and when they didn't someone to limit the damage, mostly. Hope restored.

I don't see the need for a coach to show emotion in the box. Better to look calm in a crisis and not look like a whinger (you know which coach I mean).  Goodwin has always shown emotion when we have had a good win, so to portray him as emotionless is bunkum.

I haven't followed the 'battle' about who told whom what, but I doubt if anyone told him to "show more emotion, that will help the team because the players' eyes are peeled on the coaching box".

Showing emotion in the box  clearly does not help the players.  

But it does help his connection with the bulk of the watching public.

If the coach Does not Care !   why should anyone else.

Get rid of him and get someone who is obviously invested in the club, players and supporters.

About time he showed something, it wasn't much cos I missed it !

 

Had enough of miserly excuses 

  On 20/07/2020 at 05:26, Sir Why You Little said:

Good for you,  I am not trying at all

Passing on some information to those who are interested...

 

Hey Swizzle. I respect that you can't burn your supposed source but maybe if you gave some insight into what was said then other posters wouldn't be so critical or disbelieving. Like a rough outline perhaps? Right now it's that the 'coach was spoken to'. About what? 

  On 20/07/2020 at 05:26, Sir Why You Little said:

Good for you,  I am not trying at all

Passing on some information to those who are interested...

 

Exactly as @Skuit says - you've basically said nothing - so much so that it would have been better if you didn't say anything at all.

 

  On 20/07/2020 at 02:24, A F said:

Surely you don't think Richmond's only game is to lose contested ball and win it back with intercept/turnovers.

Elements of our game style are very Richmond for the reasons I've mentioned, such as the way we're exiting defence and when we're held up, going to contests with crumbers and waves of runners in support. That's very Richmond.

And the reason I've said our ceiling is higher than Richmond's is our ability to win contested ball and dominate possession if we don't turn it over.

I 100% agree with the points in this post.

I reckon our game plan is very close to Richmonds. But of course not exactly the same, particularly our greater emphasis on winning contested ball.

But like the tigers we are forward half team, as you say when on we run in waves and use those players either side of the ball carrier, look to keep the ball moving forward at all costs when attacking (eg with knock ons etc - melk taking it a bit too far i reckon - just grab the footy for god's sake) and inside 50 pressure and tackling are fundamental KPIs (which is why Hannan and Kozi are such important ins) 

I also agree with an earlier point you about the tiger's plan changing bit to be more considered and less frenetic. We are also trying to make that change. Clubs have to these days to counter the flood and control the tempo and momentum of the game.

This is a tactical shift responsible for driving scores down - five years ago, generally the only time teams slowed it down and chipped it around was near the end of quarters or to defend lead at the end of the game. now they do it at various stages though match and for various reasons.

This tactic, which is even more effective with 16 minute quarters, is regularly employed in soccer and basketball no doubt other team sports. Control the temp and momentum and control the game. Deny the Opposition the ball and they can't score.

A really good example of us doing this well was in the minutes after the hawks kicked a couple of quick goals early in the third quarter (leading one of the peanut commentators to exclaim after the second of those goals something like - 'hawks now only 3 goals down and dees fans are nervous!').

Rather than trying to counter attack - as would have in 2017 and 2018 - we balanced up and got control of the tempo of the game. Meaning they didn't bang on 3-4 quick goals as has been our Achilles heel under Goody. So when Weed scored our first for the quarter the game was effectively over.

In some ways we also now share some tactical similarities to the pies - as do the tigers as we now share their emphasis on:

• all players doing the gut running needed in modern footy,
• applying the required pressure on that last kick inside 50
• forcing opposition sides to go long down the line by denying them the switch and kick to the corridor
• having a back six that works super well as a unit and is really hard to score against (it is worth noting as bad as were last year and in our losses this year teams have still struggled to score against us and we were rarely flogged) 

 

Edited July 20, 20204 yr by binman

  On 20/07/2020 at 06:05, 640MD said:

Showing emotion in the box  clearly does not help the players.  

But it does help his connection with the bulk of the watching public.

If the coach Does not Care !   why should anyone else.

Get rid of him and get someone who is obviously invested in the club, players and supporters.

About time he showed something, it wasn't much cos I missed it !

 

Had enough of miserly excuses 

It's interesting this train of thought as even I was surprised at his showing and yet had a little smirk as it was something we probably all did at the time.

It's fairly laughable to think that he doesn't care however.  You can hear in his press conferences when he's disappointed and frustrated but he has to lead from the front acting at times like a duck on the pond.  I have no doubt that he becomes as frustrated and excited watching us play as we all do however he tries to show some control.

I don't think continually throwing a tantrum like a child is going to help - especially if you're losing.  Players see replays/hear the noises and a slightly insecure 18-25 year old is not going to benefit from seeing a Scott brother meltdown and Clarko smashing a wall. 

  On 20/07/2020 at 07:00, binman said:

I also agree with an earlier point you about the tiger's plan changing bit to be more considered and less frenetic. We are also trying to make that change. Clubs have to these days to counter the flood and control the tempo and momentum of the game.

Collingwood surprised Richmond in the 2018 prelim by playing a style that was more readily happy to be tempo. 

Richmond changed it up over the 2018-2019 pre season and slowed their ball movement down last year and it won them a flag.

It's taken us a year to change the system. Whether that's coaching, playing or fitness-based, it may well be all three, but now that we're starting to see that change and the ability to switch gears, we become a whole lot harder to coach against.

I'd love to be playing Richmond next week for a good test, because whilst they're still probably too clever and crafty for us, our stoppage dominance and ability to change tempo was in line with Richmond yesterday. Our adjusted defensive set ups over the last fortnight would give Richmond a very good run for their money now.

  On 20/07/2020 at 07:00, binman said:

This is a tactical shift responsible for driving scores down - five years ago, generally the only time teams slowed it down and chipped it around was near the end of quarters or to defend lead at the end of the game. now they do it at various stages though match and for various reasons.

This tactic, which is even more effective with 16 minute quarters, is regularly employed in soccer and basketball no doubt other team sports. Control the temp and momentum and control the game. Deny the Opposition the ball and they can't score.

I'd argue that the chip game that is very basketball and particularly soccer, is merely a greater evolution of Clarkson's chip game. 

As I said in a post the other day, this kicking game is one that is very Pep Guardiola in the EPL. Its purpose is moving the ball across the zone at pace, but uncontested, and eventually picking gaps in the zone as a result. Once a team is able to pick gaps in the zone, they're able to go in quickly to the dangerous areas inside forward 50.

  Quote

In some ways we also now share some tactical similarities to the pies - as do the tigers as we now share their emphasis on:

• all players doing the gut running needed in modern footy,
• applying the required pressure on that last kick inside 50
• forcing opposition sides to go long down the line by denying them the switch and kick to the corridor
• having a back six that works super well as a unit and is really hard to score against (it is worth noting as bad as were last year and in our losses this year teams have still struggled to score against us and we were rarely flogged) 

I'd like to see us do it a lot longer than one game against Hawthorn. I don't think we're doing any of those dot points consistently as a whole.

Our alleged increased fitness this year should enable us to play this way though.

The way I see it is we saw some positive signs against the Suns in regards to ball use and setting up behind the ball, but yesterday, we saw some great signs and ability to play tempo.

I think we need to temper this though as the Suns midfield without Rowell and the Hawthorn midfield without Cegler enabled us first use and when we didn't get first use, often gave our defenders an ability to set up well behind the ball. 

Brisbane's midfield is decent and Neale and Zorko are at the heart of what they do, so it's a completely different test this coming week.

Edited July 20, 20204 yr by A F

  On 20/07/2020 at 06:15, Skuit said:

Hey Swizzle. I respect that you can't burn your supposed source but maybe if you gave some insight into what was said then other posters wouldn't be so critical or disbelieving. Like a rough outline perhaps? Right now it's that the 'coach was spoken to'. About what? 

PM me and i will

  On 20/07/2020 at 07:07, A F said:

 

I'd like to see us do it a lot longer than one game against Hawthorn. I don't think we're doing any of those dot points consistently as a whole.

Our alleged increased fitness this year should enable us to play this way though.

 

Top post.

Agree with the above points. Fitness and attitude are the key. 

  On 20/07/2020 at 05:26, Sir Why You Little said:

Good for you,  I am not trying at all

Passing on some information to those who are interested...

 

Look. FFS no-one is interested in your meandering drivel , you sound like Cliff from Clematis who’s heard a rumour . For heavens’ sake stop, think about  something  more interesting like growing parsley . Give us a daily update. Would  be  more interesting than anything you’ve contributed in months.

  On 20/07/2020 at 06:05, 640MD said:

Showing emotion in the box  clearly does not help the players.  

But it does help his connection with the bulk of the watching public.

If the coach Does not Care !   why should anyone else.

Get rid of him and get someone who is obviously invested in the club, players and supporters.

About time he showed something, it wasn't much cos I missed it !

 

Had enough of miserly excuses 

What a truly pathetic post !!