POSTGAME: Rd 05 vs Richmond

[jnrmac 20,046]

56 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Fair point re: the rookies.  Neeld, Bailey, Goodwin, even Daniher.  

Taking out coaches currently in a job, who would you put in place if Goodwin were moved on?

Rookie coaches aren't always bad, though.  They are all rookies at the start of their coaching careers.  I'd say we just haven't made the right choices over the years.  Roos put us in the right direction, and Goodwin went with that well in his first few years, but the challenges we now face are going to be career defining for him. 

I think we desperately need experience. Remember when Roos spoke everyone listened? It doesn't always work: Worsfold has been ordinary for example but one of the major failings at out club is that we don't have a successful recent past where players/coaches come back in and help educate the new breed. Our coaching staff haven't had recent successes and when rookies are surrounded by other 'rookies' it doesn't work. ALan Richardson doesn't 'appear' to have helped at all but its hard to know.

I suspect Voss would be much better the second time around. I can't stand Hird but he would be better 2nd time around.

Ross Lyon is the obvious choice I guess but he doesn't inspire me personally. He wasn't great at Freo and his recruiting record is very poor but his first 4 yrs he won 67 from 87 and got them to a GF.

Clarkson is the main one and if you look at his protoges they have largely done very well....

[Wiseblood 24,637]

4 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

I think we desperately need experience. Remember when Roos spoke everyone listened? It doesn't always work: Worsfold has been ordinary for example but one of the major failings at out club is that we don't have a successful recent past where players/coaches come back in and help educate the new breed. Our coaching staff haven't had recent successes and when rookies are surrounded by other 'rookies' it doesn't work. ALan Richardson doesn't 'appear' to have helped at all but its hard to know.

I suspect Voss would be much better the second time around. I can't stand Hird but he would be better 2nd time around.

Ross Lyon is the obvious choice I guess but he doesn't inspire me personally. He wasn't great at Freo and his recruiting record is very poor but his first 4 yrs he won 67 from 87 and got them to a GF.

Clarkson is the main one and if you look at his protoges they have largely done very well....

Yeah, Ross Lyon doesn't do a whole lot for me either.  He's had a few chances at it now and I can't see him doing any better with us.

If we were to ever move on from Goodwin, something I'm not convinced of yet unless we were to finish the season in the bottom four, then experience would be nice for a change.  Hird doesn't do much for me, but I'd be happy to look at others like Voss.

[At the break of Gawn 4,460]

45 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Clarkson is the main one and if you look at his protoges they have largely done very well....

The only protege, excluding Bolton for obvious reasons. who's not already a senior coach is John Barker. He might be a good consideration. [Edit: There's also Yze who might be a good option].

Voss could turn out to be a disaster or could be a master stroke. Lots of risk attached with that. 

Edited July 6, 2020 by At the break of Gawn

[Half forward flank 1,022]

Goody may not be a good team coach but surely someone with his playing credentials can get hold of the mid field group and sort out their problems. At this point it may be better for him to concentrate on individual improvement as it seems the task of looking after 40 players is beyond his capabilities. No shame in that. As John Kennedy famously said, do something. i could walk away somewhat happy with this year if our backline continues to play reasonably well and our midfield fires up. That would leave a clear area of the forward line to work on/recruit as we go forward. put ego aside, give Richo more of a run at it and let Goody concentrate on his area of expertise, the midfield. Thats my solution which will cost the club nothing, other than a gun forward coach next year.

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,683]

“Melbourne should play a smaller forward line” - Shane Crawford, Sunday 5th July 2020.

[Ethan Tremblay 30,810]

14 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

“Melbourne should play a smaller forward line” - Shane Crawford, Sunday 5th July 2020.

“Shane Crawford is a smart guy” said no one. 

[Spargonicus 539]

Ok, this thread is naturally depressing reading, and I am massively frustrated too, but here are some positives that I took away from the game:

- Hibberd back to his best. Excellent intent, hard at the ball, and those long raking kicks finding targets and creating (I admit not always)

- TMac ran his guts out and did some good things across wing and HF. He's definitely not a key forward, but with his reliable kicking for goal, is still a solid No.2 (I wish Weid was up and about)

- May was generally great - creative and makes forward earn their marks. A couple of big mistakes, but I think as a defensive unit, they're progressing well. Hampered by selection of Smith. He is also hard at the ball and physical, but over-commits too often. Need Jetta back to form. Who else do we have for backmen?

- Fritsch lively as ever. A great pairing with KP, I reckon. (Just need that genuine tall forward)

- Petracca and Gawn legends, of course.

- Hannan did some good things. Hope he builds on this.

But yes, quite a few passengers - Hunt, Melksham and Lever were ball-watching so many times.

Coming back to the F50 entries, which are shocking, I actually think if we improved dramatically in that area it would fix a lot of other things. It would reward the effort of the midfield, and would stop the constant rebounds which puts our backline under enormous pressure. Confidence is a huge thing, and the F50 entries sap so much of it. Plus, when you're clunking marks in F50 (especially with our high number of entries), the opposition would really start to look terrible and morale would build on our side and collapse on the other.

But, we've known (as Goody has) for a long time that this is a bad weakness. So I don't have a lot of faith that we can turn it around.

[Ethan Tremblay 30,810]

19 minutes ago, venemy53 said:

Ok, this thread is naturally depressing reading, and I am massively frustrated too, but here are some positives that I took away from the game:

- Hibberd back to his best. Excellent intent, hard at the ball, and those long raking kicks finding targets and creating (I admit not always)

- TMac ran his guts out and did some good things across wing and HF. He's definitely not a key forward, but with his reliable kicking for goal, is still a solid No.2 (I wish Weid was up and about)

- May was generally great - creative and makes forward earn their marks. A couple of big mistakes, but I think as a defensive unit, they're progressing well. Hampered by selection of Smith. He is also hard at the ball and physical, but over-commits too often. Need Jetta back to form. Who else do we have for backmen?

- Fritsch lively as ever. A great pairing with KP, I reckon. (Just need that genuine tall forward)

- Petracca and Gawn legends, of course.

- Hannan did some good things. Hope he builds on this.

But yes, quite a few passengers - Hunt, Melksham and Lever were ball-watching so many times.

Coming back to the F50 entries, which are shocking, I actually think if we improved dramatically in that area it would fix a lot of other things. It would reward the effort of the midfield, and would stop the constant rebounds which puts our backline under enormous pressure. Confidence is a huge thing, and the F50 entries sap so much of it. Plus, when you're clunking marks in F50 (especially with our high number of entries), the opposition would really start to look terrible and morale would build on our side and collapse on the other.

But, we've known (as Goody has) for a long time that this is a bad weakness. So I don't have a lot of faith that we can turn it around.

I think most agree that there were some good individual efforts but for me we’re passed finding positives out of losses. There’s no connection between the players and the game plan has failed. Individual efforts don’t mean a thing when you’re losing and being coached the way we are. 

Just my two-bobs venemy, I do appreciate that someone is attempting to find positives though. 

Edited July 6, 2020 by Ethan Tremblay

[Spargonicus 539]

3 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

I think most agree that there were some good individual efforts but that’s not the issue. There’s no connection between the players and the game plan has failed. Individual efforts don’t mean a thing when you’re losing and being coached the way we are. 

Just my two-bobs venemy, I do appreciate that someone is attempting to find some positives though. 

Thanks, Ethan. Yeah, I agree re: the gameplan. I suppose I'm still harbouring hopes that the gameplan will just 'click' all of a sudden (by which I mean better F50 connection) and the players will have a surge of belief and confidence and we'll start kicking 20 goals a game. ?

[darkhorse72 1,901]

15 hours ago, pinkshark said:

Fair response.  And you make good points.

But Jesus, the thought of us needing someone to guide our coach just depresses me further about this club.  

When is the clowns contract up by the way?

I do see you point.

The I have and other supporters, is what is really going on behind closed doors?   his presser spoke about the right personal... but how will that reflect in selection next week?

[Watts the matter 1,235]

1 hour ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

“Melbourne should play a smaller forward line” - Shane Crawford, Sunday 5th July 2020.

Well I can see where he is coming from. Need to have pure talls and pure smalls. The hybrids are not applying the pressure we require and are not bringing the ball to ground.

 

[Rocknroll 1,002]

1 hour ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

“Melbourne should play a smaller forward line” - Shane Crawford, Sunday 5th July 2020.

Is he calling for spargo's return/.

[Pennant St Dee 13,043]

If you want a new coach the entire process needs to be right. Bailey was the last coach selected by us who went through an exhaustive process.

Neeld was a recommendation

Roos we head hunted 

Goodwin selected as successor 

It's now at the crossroads Goodwin either makes changes or falls on his sword.

Experience.

Lyon: would take no nonsense and does not accept players not running hard both ways. Standards of fitness and playing to game plan/structure must be adhered to

Worsfold: Not a coach, he's tactically inept IMO but a fantastic leader and motivator. Put the right people around him

Scott: Got the best out of an ordinary list, but does he have the ability to take the next step

Voss: would he be better second time around I think so, but how much better 

First timers

There is nothing wrong with selecting a first time coach, but you have to nail the selection and need to have served a long apprenticeship like Fagan, Beveridge and Lyon

[DemonOX 8,779]

We had 72 turnovers for the game. That’s Auskick stuff  

Adelaide had 61 turnovers in their game. 

No wonder we can’t win. 

[dee-tox 4,835]

As usual, the good is interspersed with the bad.

Playing Fritsch in a proper position helped. Playing Melksham in Fritsch's position didn't. Time to bring in the Weed and have a 195cm target.

Leadership is a massive worry. Gawn for three quarters until Nankervis went off was very ineffective. He seems to play with the weight of 56 years and a convoluted gameplay on his shoulders!

The backline held up ok with May and Hibberd generally very good. Smith makes too many mistakes/gives fees away, especially when low scoring games are the norm this year.

The kids Rivers and Pickett are really struggling but you have to learn somewhere I guess?

The midfield mix is wrong with too many inside mids/bangers in there. Time for a rejig with Bennell, Salem and maybe Brayshaw given different roles?

Tomlinson looks a poor footballer. Squibs contests and is one-paced.

Overall, effort was there just poor execution. How much of that is the game plan. Probably quite a bit.

 

 

[DemonOX 8,779]

37 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

If you want a new coach the entire process needs to be right. Bailey was the last coach selected by us who went through an exhaustive process.

Neeld was a recommendation

Roos we head hunted 

Goodwin selected as successor 

It's now at the crossroads Goodwin either makes changes or falls on his sword.

Experience.

Lyon: would take no nonsense and does not accept players not running hard both ways. Standards of fitness and playing to game plan/structure must be adhered to

Worsfold: Not a coach, he's tactically inept IMO but a fantastic leader and motivator. Put the right people around him

Scott: Got the best out of an ordinary list, but does he have the ability to take the next step

Voss: would he be better second time around I think so, but how much better 

First timers

There is nothing wrong with selecting a first time coach, but you have to nail the selection and need to have served a long apprenticeship like Fagan, Beveridge and Lyon

PSD imo we need an experienced coach. We have had a fair go at a rookie coach and to date hasn’t worked.
My top 2 hit list would be in order of importance 

1. Clarko (prob wishful thinking)

2. Ross Lyon

i would also have an assistant in Yze earmarked as a successor at some time in the future. 

If we continue this style with Goody I really hope the board show something and  move him on at the end of the season. I know it will cost us but bloody hell if we go into next season with Goody as coach it will be horrific and we could sink even lower than in the good old Neeld days imo. 

Edited July 6, 2020 by DemonOX

[jnrmac 20,046]

43 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

If you want a new coach the entire process needs to be right. Bailey was the last coach selected by us who went through an exhaustive process.

Neeld was a recommendation

Roos we head hunted 

Goodwin selected as successor 

It's now at the crossroads Goodwin either makes changes or falls on his sword.

Experience.

Lyon: would take no nonsense and does not accept players not running hard both ways. Standards of fitness and playing to game plan/structure must be adhered to

Worsfold: Not a coach, he's tactically inept IMO but a fantastic leader and motivator. Put the right people around him

Scott: Got the best out of an ordinary list, but does he have the ability to take the next step

Voss: would he be better second time around I think so, but how much better 

First timers

There is nothing wrong with selecting a first time coach, but you have to nail the selection and need to have served a long apprenticeship like Fagan, Beveridge and Lyon

Ha ha Dean Bailey answered an ad in the paper!

[Hogan2014 390]

Not sure how Goody can continue if we finish bottom 4 again .. healthy list & they have the talent ..  it’s the game plan!

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

3 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

“Melbourne should play a smaller forward line” - Shane Crawford, Sunday 5th July 2020.

Not sure if serious or not.

We'd still kick it to the opposition with bigs or smalls.

[Hogan2014 390]

The club are posting on Fb koz almost mark, what a joke celebrating almost ..  this sums up our club, surely the coach would not be endorsing that!

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

5 minutes ago, Hogan2014 said:

Not sure how Goody can continue if we finish bottom 4 again .. healthy list & they have the talent ..  it’s the game plan!

So whats the right game plan then?

 

[Hogan2014 390]

2 hours ago, Unleash Hell said:

So whats the right game plan then?

 

The one Roos implemented as our foundation.. then  Goody unwound 

Edited July 6, 2020 by Hogan2014

[dworship 3,342]

13 hours ago, loges said:

No sense of humour then  ? It wasn't a dig it was a joke.                                                                

Nope, perhaps you should let the adults do the funny stuff next time.

[Pennant St Dee 13,043]

6 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Ha ha Dean Bailey answered an ad in the paper!

and that's all it took was it, responding to an expression of interest 

[jnrmac 20,046]

3 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

and that's all it took was it, responding to an expression of interest 

He had a great PowerPoint apparently ???