Blind Freddy could see that Harmes needed to tag Bontempelli today.

Edited August 22, 20205 yr by Dr.D

3 minutes ago, adonski said:

The better question might be - why was Sparrow in the rotation in the first place, taking CBA's off of both Brayshaw & Petracca

Guessing it's to do with game time % or something, but not sure.

Harmes is a tagger, Nothing more. The HBF is one of Goodys fascinating little tricks that does not work. I will leave it at that.

Should have tagged Libba or Bont

Edited August 22, 20205 yr by gOLLy

10 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Wouldn't be surprised if he asked for a trade. We are not making the most out of his ability.

Signed a 5 year deal last year didn't he? That's a heft contract to break.

Harmes has gone backwards the last 2 years, have no idea how he’s getting a game

Dumb footballer

Horrible at half back. Adds nothing on the attacking side and can’t defend. We tried. We failed. Time for a change. 

8 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

Blind Freddy could see that Harmes needed to tag Bontempelli today.

Bont & Hunter smashed us to pieces, not one thing done about it from the coaches box ??‍♂️  
Harmes needs to be dropped, consistently poor all season. 

7 minutes ago, dl4e said:

Harmes is a tagger, Nothing more. The HBF is one of Goodys fascinating little tricks that does not work. I will leave it at that.

Rubbish, he's a midfielder and a competent forward.

He is not, though, a defender. He shouldn't be playing there.

Good call to those who suggest he could take Sparrow's spot with Rivers coming into the backline. 

Like Fritsch last year, Goodwin is stubbornly persisting with this but like with Fritsch last year, I'm utterly convinced it's not the right call. If Harmes is squeezed out of the middle, which is a fair call to make, Harmes is a forward, not a defender.

15 minutes ago, adonski said:

The better question might be - why was Sparrow in the rotation in the first place, taking CBA's off of both Brayshaw & Petracca

Isn't of AFL standard, not to say that he might not be in the future but he gave Lachie Hunter today an awful lot of room

Any player that works their backside off and makes it into the best 22 off the rookie list deserves an enormous amount of respect.

Harmes at his best is more than just a tagger - he's good overhead and kicks goals the other way. He's this year's Fritsch - on paper, he has all the traits that should be suited to half back, but it clearly isn't working. The experiment should now be over. I'm not convinced that giving him more midfield time is the solution. Who do you take out, and where do you stick them? It's deckchairs on the Titanic stuff.

I'd play him as a defensive half forward for a month and see how he goes. That's where our biggest weakness is IMO - Melksham, Hannan, Spargo and Fritsch all have their days but get exposed defensively far too often against good sides. In many ways, Harmes is a similar player to Wallace, who absolutely killed us today.

I can envision Goodwin sitting with Richardson in the box an hour after the game like Dumb and Dumber be like 'ahhhhhh yeah, we probably should've got Harmes to tag bontempelli'.

The guy is thick as bricks

35 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

Blind Freddy could see that Harmes needed to tag Bontempelli today.

Even Blind Simon should have seen it 

Straight after the game my adult son who plays pretty good suburban footy sent me this

Censored Melbourne. I am so sick of the excuses. Poor coaching, even poorer skills execution. Unresponsiveness from the box.Game plan? was there one, backup plans?? Talk is cheap, MFC as an organization need a reality check.

I BLAME YOU FOR MAKING ME SUPPORT THEM AS A KID!

Pretty Damning assessment and unfortunately pretty true

 

56 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

With Sparrow out, why not move Harmes into that midfield rotation spot now?

 

Because he is horribly out of form, and can't get a sniff of the ball.  His spot will be saved by Jones and Sparrow not being there next week.

29 minutes ago, Accepting Mediocrity said:

Any player that works their backside off and makes it into the best 22 off the rookie list deserves an enormous amount of respect.

Harmes at his best is more than just a tagger - he's good overhead and kicks goals the other way. He's this year's Fritsch - on paper, he has all the traits that should be suited to half back, but it clearly isn't working. The experiment should now be over. I'm not convinced that giving him more midfield time is the solution. Who do you take out, and where do you stick them? It's deckchairs on the Titanic stuff.

I'd play him as a defensive half forward for a month and see how he goes. That's where our biggest weakness is IMO - Melksham, Hannan, Spargo and Fritsch all have their days but get exposed defensively far too often against good sides. In many ways, Harmes is a similar player to Wallace, who absolutely killed us today.

he is decent as a forward, can take a contested grab

5 minutes ago, george_on_the_outer said:

Because he is horribly out of form, and can't get a sniff of the ball.  His spot will be saved by Jones and Sparrow not being there next week.

In the backline he is sure, but he's played his best footy in the middle.

 

He’s not a defender. The mind boggles.

1 hour ago, titan_uranus said:

Rubbish, he's a midfielder and a competent forward.

He is not, though, a defender. He shouldn't be playing there.

Good call to those who suggest he could take Sparrow's spot with Rivers coming into the backline. 

Like Fritsch last year, Goodwin is stubbornly persisting with this but like with Fritsch last year, I'm utterly convinced it's not the right call. If Harmes is squeezed out of the middle, which is a fair call to make, Harmes is a forward, not a defender.

I don't understand smaahing Goodwin over this. 

Is Harmes in the best 22 players on our list? Probably. 

Is Harmes in the starting 3 mids? No, he isn't even the first rotation in. 

Is Harmes the best half forward option? Probably not. Fritsch is ahead of him, Brayshaw and Truck are resting there, Jones, Hannan and VDB are playing there, but can't play anywhere else.

Can Harmes play wing? No.

 

As the 5th best midfielder and 3rd best (and more versatile) HFF, but still in the 22, he finds himself at HBF because he is capable of playing there, in a way that others who he is competing with can't. 

So Goodwin is "stubbornly persisting" because he is trying to play the best players. The only real option is to drop Harmes for a specialist like Rivers, but then he would be leaving talent in the shed.

It's pretty clear what he's trying to do and why. It isn't working so he needs to reassess: but when you can't play talent into form in the reserves, persisting may be the best option. 

Edited August 22, 20205 yr by deanox

9 minutes ago, deanox said:

I don't understand smaahing Goodwin over this. 

Is Harmes in the best 22 players on our list? Probably. 

Is Harmes in the starting 3 mids? No, he isn't even the first rotation in. 

Is Harmes the best half forward option? Probably not. Fritsch is ahead of him, Brayshaw and Truck are resting there, Jones, Hannan and VDB are playing there, but can't play anywhere else.

Can Harmes play wing? No.

As the 5th best midfielder and 3rd best (and more versatile) HFF, but still in the 22, he finds himself at HBF because he is capable of playing there, in a way that others who he is competing with can't. 

So Goodwin is "stubbornly persisting" because he is trying to play the best players. The only real option is to drop Harmes for a specialist like Rivers, but then he would be leaving talent in the shed.

It's pretty clear what he's trying to do and why. It isn't working so he needs to reassess: but when you can't play talent into form in the reserves, persisting may be the best option. 

Yes, but what makes him "probably best 22"?

Midfield/forward form. Not defender form.

If Harmes is nothing but a defender, he's not best 22.

That's the problem.

He has talent as a midfielder and a forward. We had both Jones and Sparrow in midfield/forward rotations last week, so there is room for Harmes to play a role at that end of the ground.

This will be up there as one of the strangest and bizarre coaching moves in my time supporting this club.

A genuine gun midfielder when on song, and  is yet being wasted away in another position where he's barely fired a shot for majority of the year.

Edited August 22, 20205 yr by dazzledavey36

8 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Yes, but what makes him "probably best 22"?

Midfield/forward form. Not defender form.

If Harmes is nothing but a defender, he's not best 22.

That's the problem.

He has talent as a midfielder and a forward. We had both Jones and Sparrow in midfield/forward rotations last week, so there is room for Harmes to play a role at that end of the ground.

Agree with this 100%. I'm not saying we've got it right but I don't think it's as outrageous as people make out. 

The versatility of mid size positions in AFL vs say soccer or cricket makes this difficult.

The value gained or lost by changing Harmes' role needs to be considered with respect to the other roles that the change would affect. 

If Rivers was available as a game day emergency then that would have allowed the reshuffle, but given at selection it appears Jones/HFF and Harmes/HBF was preferred to Harmes/HFF and Rivers/HBF it probably wasn't on the cards.

FWIW I would have prefered Harmes/HFF and Rivers/HBF. 

Drop him for his own sake. I don’t know if he is struggling personally in the hub or whatever but he is so out of form. Give him a spell and then bring him back in the team - not in defence

18 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

This will be up there as one of the strangest and bizarre coaching moves in my time supporting this club.

A genuine gun midfielder when on song, and  is yet being wasted away in another position where he's barely fired a shot for majority of the year.

Again, which of Oliver, Truck, Viney, Brayshaw is he ahead of for a midfield position? Or does he take Sparrows role as bench warmer (he played 55% tog last week despite us smashing the pies)?

If we want him on the park he plays HBF or HFF. At HFF there is plenty of competition: Hannan, VDB, Fritsch, Jones, and the resting mids Brayshaw and Trac. At HBF the competition is Rivers.

Just now, deanox said:

Again, which of Oliver, Truck, Viney, Brayshaw is he ahead of for a midfield position? Or does he take Sparrows role as bench warmer (he played 55% tog last week despite us smashing the pies)?

If we want him on the park he plays HBF or HFF. At HFF there is plenty of competition: Hannan, VDB, Fritsch, Jones, and the resting mids Brayshaw and Trac. At HBF the competition is Rivers.

Played his best footy in the 2nd half of 2018 when Viney wasn't there. So yes I'd take Viney out who imo upsets our midfield mix. The fact Goodwin has even caught onto this shows why he hasn't improved as a coach. 

Its also being smart in using your midfield mix.  

Its no coincidence that we got our run on back in the back half of 2018 due to the tagging efforts of Harmes. Not only was he shutting down some of the best names in the league, he was going out and getting the pill himself.

We've taken the biggest strength we had in our side and turned into [censored].

 

3 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Played his best footy in the 2nd half of 2018 when Viney wasn't there. So yes I'd take Viney out who imo upsets our midfield mix. The fact Goodwin has even caught onto this shows why he hasn't improved as a coach. 

Its also being smart in using your midfield mix.  

Its no coincidence that we got our run on back in the back half of 2018 due to the tagging efforts of Harmes. Not only was he shutting down some of the best names in the league, he was going out and getting the pill himself.

We've taken the biggest strength we had in our side and turned into [censored].

 

Harmes really adds another dimension to the midfield because of the way he's accountable at the stoppage, but then runs hard, spreads and becomes an attacking option. 

it's not really surprising, it seems like that's a role he really understands. he knows when to defend and when to attack, which to me seems to be a part of his current role he hasn't worked out. 

I genuinely think josh Wagner would be a better option at half back than Harmes is currently.