Weideman's Future?

[The Chazz 4,077]

13 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Mate, we don't know where the Weid is at (other than 5 goals in a scratch match) because we're gifting games to a kid who isn't ready yet.

Weid has just had his first reasonably uninterrupted preseason, they've given him a clear role, he's done it well (see the preseason game where he rucked) and they're clearly refusing to play him. Not even an emergency this week. As it stands it's looking like another case of the MFC draft obsession.

Why tell Weid he has to have a 'sustained period before he plays' and then turn around and tell Jackson he gets a few for free? That's what Melbourne has done for years when it was a trash club and you want them to do it again.

You tell me, when has Jackson played 2 good games in a row?

I'm confused by your argument here.  What you are saying is that Weid excelled in the preseason when given a specific role, which was to ruck, then say they are clearly refusing to play him.

Given what you have just said, would that not make it that he is competing for Gawn's spot?

[Engorged Onion 10,223]

I really want Weid to work, but I think this season is his last opportunity to do so in the Red and Blue. I liken him a bit to Jack Watts, in the sense that there is a smoothness when he has the ball in his hand, but he isn't a beast of a competitor, and that in itself is ok, but maybe not suitable for what we need as a club. 

For mine he would work great in a tandem tall forward setup, without being the no.1. Whilst Tmac is struggling, there is urgency for Weid to impose himself physically more - and currently he isnt built for that, a couple of years time and he may well be.

From the outside, he doesn't appear to relish the physicality of a one on one or a pack situation, and I think for what the FD want, and what he needs, it may be best to seek alternate employment...sadly.

Edited June 19, 2020 by Engorged Onion

[Lord Nev 13,512]

21 minutes ago, The Chazz said:

I'm confused by your argument here.  What you are saying is that Weid excelled in the preseason when given a specific role, which was to ruck, then say they are clearly refusing to play him.

Given what you have just said, would that not make it that he is competing for Gawn's spot?

No, because the role they've set for him is as forward/ruck. I never said his role was just as ruck.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

1 hour ago, rjay said:

Pretty difficult mate, he's only played one game.

Exactly

[hemingway 7,631]

Sadly when you see the way they play and you look at selections you realise that there is no stability and therefore not much chance of moulding a good team. It ends up with a lack of cohesion on the field and a lack of confidence in one another. We are held together by a small group of good players and the rest lack the quality needed to blend a team. Cannot see where the improvement is going to come from. There is a gulf between our best and the rest and a gulf in consistency. 

[faultydet 7,619]

16 hours ago, loges said:

The only thing that has gone amiss with the Weid has been his lack of improvement since that elimination final. Having said that I did expect him to be selected this week. Can't see who is going to take contested marks up forward.

That's one of Weidemans problems.

He doesn't take contested marks.

[Neil Crompton 5,618]

4 minutes ago, faultydet said:

That's one of Weidemans problems.

He doesn't take contested marks.

Besides Gawn, name one other of our players that does consistently take contested marks FD?

Agree he should, but he is not alone there by any means. 

[The Chazz 4,077]

3 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

No, because the role they've set for him is as forward/ruck. I never said his role was just as ruck.

The preseason game you referred to as part of your argument saw Weid basically play the whole game in the ruck, not as the forward/ruck that you are now wanting him to play in the seniors.

I think you have chosen the wrong game to support your argument, which raises a different argument of which game could you choose to support it? Naturally we could look at the scratch match last week, but then when others have looked at more of that game than just his 5 goals, you've dismissed them. 

[faultydet 7,619]

2 minutes ago, Neil Crompton said:

Besides Gawn, name one other of our players that does consistently take contested marks FD?

Agree he should, but he is not alone there by any means. 

The fact that nobody else does it kind of pointless isn't it? Weideman doesn't. Which means that it is a moot point to look to him for something he doesn't provide.

We have a massive weakness in our key position players in that we are always exposed aerially. I hope our free agent focus is on people who can address this weakness while we are in possession  of a ball winning midfield. Our "window" will never truly open unless we find players who can grab a contested mark.

[old dee 23,872]

1 hour ago, Rusty Nails said:

We will never know Mr Old.  Such pertinent questions might get you in to trouble you know.

Fairly sure I am not about to change RN. So will just have to endure the crap. 

[Lord Nev 13,512]

11 minutes ago, The Chazz said:

The preseason game you referred to as part of your argument saw Weid basically play the whole game in the ruck, not as the forward/ruck that you are now wanting him to play in the seniors.

I think you have chosen the wrong game to support your argument, which raises a different argument of which game could you choose to support it? Naturally we could look at the scratch match last week, but then when others have looked at more of that game than just his 5 goals, you've dismissed them. 

Because, as Chaplin has talked about, they're trying to develop the ruck part of his game specifically for the role of forward/ruck. Gawn didn't play in that game so they gave the majority of the ruck work to Weid to develop his ruck work.

As mentioned in a few of my posts already, Troy Chaplin has spoken about how this offseason they set Weid the forward/ruck role and started to get him to focus on that. Because he hasn't played many games yet due to no VFL and non-selection at AFL level we don't have a lot of in-game examples to choose from. There's the preseason game where he rucked and the scratch match where he kicked 5 goals. Seems pretty self-explanatory then what's going on even if you choose to ignore one of our assistant coaches.

As for your 'example' of me 'dismissing' others, I'm assuming you're alluding to where I said to another poster that judging Weid's game off the Carlton video highlights was maybe not the most accurate way to do so. I still stand by that. It's hard enough to judge a game purely off TV, let alone an opposition club's short highlights of their own team.

Perhaps if you put as much work into watching and listening as you do into posts trying to have a crack at me you'd pick up on more of what is going on.

[Willmoy1947 4,140]

I'm thinking that Browne might be playing a role here. With a set up of two bigs working together in the forward line. If that is the case we might want to wait and see.

[old dee 23,872]

44 minutes ago, hemingway said:

Sadly when you see the way they play and you look at selections you realise that there is no stability and therefore not much chance of moulding a good team. It ends up with a lack of cohesion on the field and a lack of confidence in one another. We are held together by a small group of good players and the rest lack the quality needed to blend a team. Cannot see where the improvement is going to come from. There is a gulf between our best and the rest and a gulf in consistency. 

Could not have said it better Ernest.

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

13 hours ago, Hogan2014 said:

Neitz retired in 2008 and the club hasn’t be able to draft/develop another key forward since apart from Hogan who never really

Lets remember that Neita started and was developed into a player around 1993,  not in the 2000's.   Same with Schwarta.  And Lyon earlier.

Which top-line Key forward have we developed,  since the Mid 90's.?

[TheKozzieExperience 258]

Weid is just another Michael Newton/ Nick Smith unfortunately.

Anyway,  Harrison Petty is our emerging key position forward.  He will be a star, too bad hes out at the moment.

[Lord Travis 10,763]

9 minutes ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

Lets remember that Neita started and was developed into a player around 1993,  not in the 2000's.   Same with Schwarta.  And Lyon earlier.

Which top-line Key forward have we developed,  since the Mid 90's.?

None. Our development of players has been poor for decades now. We're the only club (expansion clubs aside) who has not produced superstars for decades. We've had more high draft picks and more elite young talent come into our club than nearly all others, yet we're still unable to develop them properly. Until we improve our culture and improve our development of young talent, we will continue to remain a bottom team. 

Edited June 19, 2020 by Lord Travis

[WA Demon Boy 966]

7 minutes ago, TheKozzieExperience said:

Weid is just another Michael Newton/ Nick Smith unfortunately.

Anyway,  Harrison Petty is our emerging key position forward.  He will be a star, too bad hes out at the moment.

will he though? not really sold on him either

[old55 23,687]

I guarantee Weid will have a good AFL career, if not as a KF then as a KB. He has all the attributes to make it and just needs the confidence to realise them.

I do concede that there is a possibility this happens at another club.

I think the reason Weid is not playing is because the FD rate Jackson so highly they can't leave him out. Sure his output was very modest last week but let's see what he can do over a few weeks.

[Sir Why You Little 37,125]

10 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

None. Our development of players has been poor for decades now. We're the only club (expansion clubs aside) who has not produced superstars for decades. We've had more high draft picks and more elite young talent come into our club than nearly all others, yet we're still unable to develop them properly. Until we improve our culture and improve our development of young talent, we will continue to remain a bottom team. 

Which is why right now, I am ok with not giving Weid easy games without him earning them. Out of all our forwards he has the most potential to be a target. 
 

make him earn the spot. We may lose a few in the process, but TMac is a 2nd or 3rd Forward. We know that. 
The Weid can still be the primary target,if he is hungry enough. 
it is not easy, i get that because defenders now swarm the goal square

The Weid has to get angry if he is to succeed

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

4 hours ago, old dee said:

We recruited Brown for the same position and after one game where he was not the worst in the side he is dropped for a kid who had not played A game since under 18’s in August. My did we recruit Brown?
At the moment our FD leaves me in wonder land.

 

No we didn't.

4 hours ago, old dee said:

Ok why did we recruit Brown it seems he is out of favour after one game?

 

Brown is a running tall forward with great endurance and a reliable overhead mark..   IMV to roam the midzone.  Where TMC Used to roam high and play/run well.  and Pedo as well played high and drifted back into F50.

I do not sense that Brown is a strong contested mark.

So I think his best area to play,  is to chopout the midfield on transition.  And kickouts.

 

We've bulked up TMc,  I think we did intentionally.?  to play Power forward deep.  At the same time we recruited a mobile ruckman/forward and small quick forwards, surely to compliment this structure with a deep power forward,  to bring the ball to ground where smalls can pounce.

Surely recruiting a 28/29Yr old mobile high forward,  is designed to suit our carry-over time-wise,  of Weide and Jackson.

#  maybe Brown could also double as a CHB,  if the right matchup was on.?

Edited June 19, 2020 by MyFavouriteMartian

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

3 hours ago, Grimes Times said:

While i dont disagree with much above it may just be the fact they went with Jackson last week over Weed ,for what reason, and to change it after 1 game doesn't send the right message to the playing group. Jackson didnt do much wrong, or right but give the kids more than 1 game in 1 game out. Lets see what they have got. No one has been privy to the scratch match form over the last month and all we are really going on is Weeds 5 goals against the northern Blues. How did Rivers earn his game with no matches to show us what he can do. Maybe Jackson showed just as much in the scratch games which got him a game over weed.  Im a fan of weeds and his time will come.

Go home factor..?   blooding them early,  before letting them develop,  but no reserves.?

I think  if/when Jackson goes out,  soon, Weide will come in, alongside TMc.    Fritta will go back to hff,  and bennell and picket will accompany the forwards.

Receiving a spot in the forwardline has gotten a lot harder, than at any time in the past 20 Years.

[The Chazz 4,077]

1 hour ago, Lord Nev said:

Because, as Chaplin has talked about, they're trying to develop the ruck part of his game specifically for the role of forward/ruck. Gawn didn't play in that game so they gave the majority of the ruck work to Weid to develop his ruck work.

As mentioned in a few of my posts already, Troy Chaplin has spoken about how this offseason they set Weid the forward/ruck role and started to get him to focus on that. Because he hasn't played many games yet due to no VFL and non-selection at AFL level we don't have a lot of in-game examples to choose from. There's the preseason game where he rucked and the scratch match where he kicked 5 goals. Seems pretty self-explanatory then what's going on even if you choose to ignore one of our assistant coaches.

As for your 'example' of me 'dismissing' others, I'm assuming you're alluding to where I said to another poster that judging Weid's game off the Carlton video highlights was maybe not the most accurate way to do so. I still stand by that. It's hard enough to judge a game purely off TV, let alone an opposition club's short highlights of their own team.

Perhaps if you put as much work into watching and listening as you do into posts trying to have a crack at me you'd pick up on more of what is going on.

Firstly, looking at your last paragraph, and a few of the things you have said to SWYL in this thread, how about you play the ball and not the man?

Now, with form this year, this is where it's going to be a tricky year for some players.  No VFL games to prove your improvement (or for us to observe), scratch matches that are good for match fitness and not much else (due to the reduction of players playing), so we will be basically relying on the actual seniors game (which we can only see what the cameras allow us) and form on the track at Casey (which we can't see).

Our FD get to see a lot more than what you, and the rest of us, do.  We can only trust they are making their decisions based on all of the "other" stuff that we don't see.  Then all we can do is make our judgements based on what we see on the field (and ultimately the scoreboard).

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

40 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

None. Our development of players has been poor for decades now. We're the only club (expansion clubs aside) who has not produced superstars for decades. We've had more high draft picks and more elite young talent come into our club than nearly all others, yet we're still unable to develop them properly. Until we improve our culture and improve our development of young talent, we will continue to remain a bottom team. 

We're on the same page 'LT'.    But I do think this current footy dept' and admin are different,  and we are improving on past footy dept's,  and on development.  But it won't show fully for another couple of seasons, IMO.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

5 minutes ago, The Chazz said:

Firstly, looking at your last paragraph, and a few of the things you have said to SWYL in this thread, how about you play the ball and not the man?

Now, with form this year, this is where it's going to be a tricky year for some players.  No VFL games to prove your improvement (or for us to observe), scratch matches that are good for match fitness and not much else (due to the reduction of players playing), so we will be basically relying on the actual seniors game (which we can only see what the cameras allow us) and form on the track at Casey (which we can't see).

Our FD get to see a lot more than what you, and the rest of us, do.  We can only trust they are making their decisions based on all of the "other" stuff that we don't see.  Then all we can do is make our judgements based on what we see on the field (and ultimately the scoreboard).

I think the whole underlying current behind all this is the lack of trust in team selection, which is often backed up by what ends up happening on the field, along with the inconsistency of how we implement culture with certain players getting way more chances than others despite non-performance. When you're a club that has had a poor culture leading to no success, those things can become magnified, and, I believe, rightly so at the moment.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,293]

4 hours ago, Lord Travis said:

The coaching group should play him in his natural tall forward position. Coincidentally it's also our biggest weakness at present, yet they keep throwing him into the ruck and not giving him a proper chance up forward. They're playing Jackson ahead of him. Jackson might well surpass him in years to come, but at present Weid is bigger, stronger, quicker, better hands, better tackler, better kick, better scorer. There's simply no reason to play Jackson ahead of him, and it reeks of favouritism and poor culture. It's been over a decade and we still haven't learned not to gift games to kids who haven't earned them.

The club have ruined Weid's development. For his own sake, I hope he requests a trade and flourishes elsewhere.

It's not just Jackson - if TMac doesn't perform this week he will be well and truly in the gun too.