2 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

So what you actually want is the ball bombed in and the forwards pack marking?

 

Well come on Saty you can make that argument but if we insist on bombing it in long we may as well train for it even though many say, as I do we used to train differently. From my PreCovid training observations we move the ball around but in a game we bomb long? Que. 

1 hour ago, Pates said:

I have to believe that the FD has made the decision based on two things: they want Weids to be bashing down the door before they select him again and based on the expected conditions possibly being suited to a smaller/mid-sized forward line.

Might well be that the spot Sam takes is in fact TMac.

This is close to what I think.  

I'm of the view that either they both play side by side,  or its one or the other to play deep.

I could see a forward-line of Weide & TMc,  and Brown out at CHF.  With Brown leading up into the midzone,  with Weide and TMc revolving around the F50.

5 hours ago, Earl Hood said:

Well come on Saty you can make that argument but if we insist on bombing it in long we may as well train for it even though many say, as I do we used to train differently. From my PreCovid training observations we move the ball around but in a game we bomb long? Que. 

They are not coached to bomb it long, much to the frustration of the coaches, the players revert to it at the moment too often

It is still 2020, you don't need a big strong gorilla who can take marks like you used to

If we can replicate the connection like we did for first quarter last week, that proves my point

On 6/18/2020 at 8:25 PM, MyFavouriteMartian said:

Tall players do take time.   You can't throw them out for that,  unless they aren't doing the right things.  Not all are immediate arrivals.

And we have seen his ability.

 

I would be expecting 3 years for a tall to show anything much, and 5 seasons to become a regular.   Anything before that is a bonus,  or the club has no one ahead of the player,  keeping them out.

Weide's approaching 23,  and has already shown a starring performance in a final.  Its a matter of getting his body fit and strong,  and then stringing games together,  to find form.

Carl Ditterich didn't take too long - starred in his first game for the Saints.

Weid played well, pressured with toughness and presented and marked perfectly on the wings in our finals wins. But there was an element of defensive shambles in the way he scored his goals. We rattled Geelong and watched on as the Hawks choked on their opportunities before pouncing. We're not talking about 5 or 6 goal hauls here @MyFavouriteMartian - the mythos surrounding Weids finals seem to have grown the worse we've played since. Tbh I think a few of his marks and goals fell in his lap. He was imposing in a way we've longed for since Neita, but I fear and also hypothesize that it was also due to our opponents desperation as their defences crumbled under the weight of our chaos ball style. They were under siege. Throw in Dawes, Pedo or maybe even Brown, and they probably would've taken the same opportunities as Weid took had they played.

Maybe that's unfair. I could be wrong. We still don't know whether it was a fluke or a sign of things to come.

Anyway, the slate is wiped clean. This year and possible next await what Weid can do when he earns his opportunities

Edited June 19, 20204 yr by John Demonic

In Thursday's press conf Goodwin was asked about Weideman.   He danced around the question a bit but at one point said: "...its different at AFL level, tho".  And a few sentences later said something like: "...we are looking for talls to really compete, bring the ball to ground and influence the game..."  Not overly encouraging.

Nonetheless, my interpretation is that Sam has some things to work on.  That Jackson is not in the team this week suggests the spot for a tall forward is still wide open. 

I reckon Sam will be back.  He may not become a star or win a Coleman but if he kicks about 35-40 goals a season and does the competitive things well he will be doing his job.  

Edited June 20, 20204 yr by Lucifer's Hero

20 hours ago, TheKozzieExperience said:

Weid is just another Michael Newton/ Nick Smith unfortunately.

Anyway,  Harrison Petty is our emerging key position forward.  He will be a star, too bad hes out at the moment.

Lol. Rofl. What a laugh. Harry Petty is a star... based on what exactly? Good average player at best. 

1 hour ago, Leoncelli_36 said:

Lol. Rofl. What a laugh. Harry Petty is a star... based on what exactly? Good average player at best. 

He's shown promising glimpses, but he's neither a 'star' nor a 'good average player'. He's a 20 year old kid who has played 11 games and is still finding his feet. I do think he'll have a role to play in the firsts going forward though, whether that be forward or back.

Edited June 20, 20204 yr by Luther

16 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

This is why i struggle to understand modern training. 
forwards should be working on Pack Marks and crumbing the ball, as well as goal Kicking at Training. 
That is their job i would have thought!!

I am more inferring that this skill should be a strength before we recruit a likely KF but yes training it and honing the skill obviously would help SW.

Havent been to training for some time so i dont know if they are or arent focussing on such things nor to what degree if they are.

13 hours ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

This is close to what I think.  

I'm of the view that either they both play side by side,  or its one or the other to play deep.

I could see a forward-line of Weide & TMc,  and Brown out at CHF.  With Brown leading up into the midzone,  with Weide and TMc revolving around the F50.

From recollection, a T-Mac / Weid combo hasn't been all that convincing in terms of results on the scoreboard of late.  2nd half of 2018 probably better, mainly the finals?  But aside from that little window.

Might be time to play Brown & Lever (short term experiment / trial only) up there and put T-Mac back or just drop him altogether.

On 6/18/2020 at 8:08 PM, loges said:

The only thing that has gone amiss with the Weid has been his lack of improvement since that elimination final. Having said that I did expect him to be selected this week. Can't see who is going to take contested marks up forward.

I think that missed goal against the Crows in Darwin last year really rattled him. The media made a stupidly big deal of it - cameras capturing his emotional state in the rooms, opinion pieces by journalists saying the club showed him too much empathy. It was a bit much considering his was just one mistake of plenty at the hands of his teammates through the night. But I can’t recall a game since where his performance well and truly left that night in the dust. 
 

Possibly nothing in that observation. But it’s also possible that it’s another example of our inadequacies when it comes to managing the psychological aspects of the game. 

8 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

They are not coached to bomb it long, much to the frustration of the coaches, the players revert to it at the moment too often

.. 

If we can replicate the connection like we did for first quarter last week, that proves my point

It's hard watching on tv rather than at the ground but I really think one of our biggest problems in this area has been about the timing of leads.

Often the bombing long is in direct response to not having players leading at the carrier, or not being in space. When the forwards are stagnent or grouped, the kick has to be a bomb long. When the forwards lead too early and then track back towards goal it looks like a bomb long. (If the lead is even earlier, then the track back into space is a great option, but the timing and distance needs to be perfect).

And I think that's what Goodwin means when he says "connection".

I think it's the problem with the forwards not the mids. TMac gets lost when inside 50 (he likes to roam up ground). Hunt's leading patterns last Saturday were good. We'll see what happens this week. 

4 hours ago, Mel Bourne said:

I think that missed goal against the Crows in Darwin last year really rattled him. The media made a stupidly big deal of it - cameras capturing his emotional state in the rooms, opinion pieces by journalists saying the club showed him too much empathy. It was a bit much considering his was just one mistake of plenty at the hands of his teammates through the night. But I can’t recall a game since where his performance well and truly left that night in the dust. 
 

Possibly nothing in that observation. But it’s also possible that it’s another example of our inadequacies when it comes to managing the psychological aspects of the game. 

I was actually up in Darwin for the match. Weideman had quite a solid game, took about 4 contested marks and was well involved in the  game. It was certainly not on him that we lost. We kicked 1.8 in the last quarter as player after player turned what should have been a 4 or 5 goal win into a loss. One of the most frustrating games ever.

Given postponement of the game against Essendon, he gets a chance to press for selection again. 

11 hours ago, Deemania since 56 said:

Carl Ditterich didn't take too long - starred in his first game for the Saints.

And Jimma Stynes didn't take much time either.   Did he.?

Which footballer would you take of the two.?   Stynes, or Ditterich.?

10 hours ago, John Demonic said:

Weid played well, pressured with toughness and presented and marked perfectly on the wings in our finals wins. But there was an element of defensive shambles in the way he scored his goals. We rattled Geelong and watched on as the Hawks choked on their opportunities before pouncing. We're not talking about 5 or 6 goal hauls here @MyFavouriteMartian - the mythos surrounding Weids finals seem to have grown the worse we've played since. Tbh I think a few of his marks and goals fell in his lap. He was imposing in a way we've longed for since Neita, but I fear and also hypothesize that it was also due to our opponents desperation as their defences crumbled under the weight of our chaos ball style. They were under siege. Throw in Dawes, Pedo or maybe even Brown, and they probably would've taken the same opportunities as Weid took had they played.

Maybe that's unfair. I could be wrong. We still don't know whether it was a fluke or a sign of things to come.

Anyway, the slate is wiped clean. This year and possible next await what Weid can do when he earns his opportunities

From what I recall of that game,  and Weide's endeavours,  I can't remember of his goals,  but i remember him rising and plucking one contested mark from behind a Geelong tall back near the point post.

I remember him receiving a bad bounce ball, collected and fed it out well.

I remember his pressure around the contest in the forward-line,  and also his solid tackle/hit on one of the cats name players,  at the boundary line.

He played really well.   One of our better contributors.

On 6/19/2020 at 5:40 PM, Sir Why You Little said:

This is why i struggle to understand modern training. 
forwards should be working on Pack Marks and crumbing the ball, as well as goal Kicking at Training. 
That is their job i would have thought!!

Actually your point is a good one, that we are training the whole team in midfielder styled roles,  of running and passing and fitness,  and so little on the specialised areas such as key forwards roles.  Pack marking and use of body to move the opponent,  and set shot kicking from long distance.

 

This could be part of the reason why so few Key forwards are dominating these days, because so little work is put into these skill-sets.  and maybe another bloody casualty of the interchange and rotations. + flood/rolling maul.

I just think that's a highly moronic thing to say

On 6/18/2020 at 7:04 PM, Wrecker45 said:

 

What pick can we we get for Weid when we trade him?

He was pick 9 in the staff we will lose on this.

 

I’m on the record as saying we should gave traded him last year and stand by that.

However, seeing as we still have him he should be getting games because we have very few tall forward options and we need to give him an extended run at it to see if he can begin holding his marks.

17 hours ago, loges said:

I was actually up in Darwin for the match. Weideman had quite a solid game, took about 4 contested marks and was well involved in the  game. It was certainly not on him that we lost. We kicked 1.8 in the last quarter as player after player turned what should have been a 4 or 5 goal win into a loss. One of the most frustrating games ever.

Oh no, never would suggest the loss was on him. But the focus of attention was well and truly (and unfairly) on him at the end of that game. The camera glued on him in the rooms (when he was visibly upset) while commentators picked over the moment, was pretty rough on him. And if you want to put moments and games like that behind you, you have to bury them with dominant, undeniably good performances. He has yet to have that game since. I hope he does. It would do him and us the world of good. 

16 hours ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

And Jimma Stynes didn't take much time either.   Did he.?

Which footballer would you take of the two.?   Stynes, or Ditterich.?

Because the game has changed so much - almost generational - I'd take Stynes as his mobility was exceptional, let alone his skills. This choice also sits well with my Demons loyalties, of course.

As for big Carl, hell ... he could mark, split a pack, provide screens and protection for his teammates, and tap-ruck to perfection against all comers with a ferocious intent and execution. Carl was unique, and evened scores as his opponents encountered him again and again. Carl sometimes appeared to lack 'gentlemanly' sportsmanship on a regular basis but as I remember him with the Saints and later with the MFC, he saw the games of his time in their true context. Footy was a game of physical dominance and effort, and power, and he had these qualities in abundance - even in his sunset years. 

The two of them, Jim and Carl, both played well very suddenly as we have suggested. It was a delight to watch them maintain such consistencies on the field and against what might be regarded as overwhelming odds, team wise. Different strokes for different blokes but significant parts of the history of our game.

 

49 minutes ago, Deemania since 56 said:

Because the game has changed so much - almost generational - I'd take Stynes as his mobility was exceptional, let alone his skills. This choice also sits well with my Demons loyalties, of course.

As for big Carl, hell ... he could mark, split a pack, provide screens and protection for his teammates, and tap-ruck to perfection against all comers with a ferocious intent and execution. Carl was unique, and evened scores as his opponents encountered him again and again. Carl sometimes appeared to lack 'gentlemanly' sportsmanship on a regular basis but as I remember him with the Saints and later with the MFC, he saw the games of his time in their true context. Footy was a game of physical dominance and effort, and power, and he had these qualities in abundance - even in his sunset years. 

The two of them, Jim and Carl, both played well very suddenly as we have suggested. It was a delight to watch them maintain such consistencies on the field and against what might be regarded as overwhelming odds, team wise. Different strokes for different blokes but significant parts of the history of our game.

 

Yes, but the point is Jimma took along time to be ready for AFL footy.   Even needing to be sent to Prahran to grow and develop, before he could take the step..  and what a step he did take.

We're talking development time frame,  Re Weide.

4 hours ago, Mel Bourne said:

Oh no, never would suggest the loss was on him. But the focus of attention was well and truly (and unfairly) on him at the end of that game. The camera glued on him in the rooms (when he was visibly upset) while commentators picked over the moment, was pretty rough on him. And if you want to put moments and games like that behind you, you have to bury them with dominant, undeniably good performances. He has yet to have that game since. I hope he does. It would do him and us the world of good. 

Totally agree. Always hoping he will come good, not sure he will though.

On 6/19/2020 at 9:57 AM, Lord Travis said:

The coaching group should play him in his natural tall forward position. Coincidentally it's also our biggest weakness at present, yet they keep throwing him into the ruck and not giving him a proper chance up forward. They're playing Jackson ahead of him. Jackson might well surpass him in years to come, but at present Weid is bigger, stronger, quicker, better hands, better tackler, better kick, better scorer. There's simply no reason to play Jackson ahead of him, and it reeks of favouritism and poor culture. It's been over a decade and we still haven't learned not to gift games to kids who haven't earned them.

The club have ruined Weid's development. For his own sake, I hope he requests a trade and flourishes elsewhere.

It simple really, tell him he gets the next 10 games come what ever may to prove himself, after that make a decision. To have Bailey Fritcsh as Full Forward gives me no faith. Fritcsh is a Half Forward Flanker and that's where he should be played.

So, the question is Where is Weid?