Where did it all go wrong for the Demons?

[spirit of norm smith 16,342]

It’s been a curse. 
 

Injuries have hurt us more than anyone. Moore’s back.  Lyon’s back.  Schwarz’s knee. Jakovich’s back. Tingay’s nerve damage. Many many others had careers cut short when they could have years ahead. 
 

Bad attitude and arrogance.  The tanking was ridiculous.  It led to a losing attitude which took 10 years to work through. It still haunts us. Chris Connolly and Danny Corcoran and Cam Schwab. Hang your heads.  You create a winning culture then sustain excellence.

Talk is cheap.  It’s what you do that defines you. Action.  

I have to mention White Board Wednesday.  Footy is a simple game and not a scientific experiment.  Ffs. 
 

When you reach the summit. Work harder again.  Too many years of accepting finals were good enough. 2019 another example of expecting it to happen. 
 

A footy club should wrap itself around good people and a good personality.  Mateship and comradery.  
 

Hope sustains us all!! 

[hemingway 7,615]

11 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

Come on chap, you are trying to take their broken records away

We both know it's only a game

But @Sir Why You Little  has still not expunged the memory of Cam Schwab running over his cat

Just call me Ernie. 

[hemingway 7,615]

11 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Because it is part of our clubs history and without addressing it and recognising the failure we won't be able to achieve success.

With respect Dr,  we understand it and recognise, but regurgitating the same issues over 40 or 50 years does not reveal the universal truth. How many times do you need to write and read about the same issues. 

All we do is reinforce the negativity surrounding the club. We all recognise the issues and our lack of success, but it does not result in success on the field. 

The club has been trying to achieve success for a long time. Our efforts from the time that PJ and Roos came aboard have been designed to do this. Our financial position has improved and our administration has been stable. We have many capable people on board.  But it’s tough with not much leeway between success and failure. We are no longer getting slaughtered by  huge margins. So we have improved over recent years. But the competition is fierce and clearly we have gaps in our playing list. Our skills have not been up to standard and we don’t have many A graders. In addition the jury is still out on our head coach and his game plan. 

But let’s talk about the present and future not the past. 

[Macca 16,946]

22 minutes ago, hemingway said:

With respect Dr,  we understand it and recognise, but regurgitating the same issues over 40 or 50 years does not reveal the universal truth. How many times do you need to write and read about the same issues. 

All we do is reinforce the negativity surrounding the club. We all recognise the issues and our lack of success, but it does not result in success on the field. 

The club has been trying to achieve success for a long time. Our efforts from the time that PJ and Roos came aboard have been designed to do this. Our financial position has improved and our administration has been stable. We have many capable people on board.  But it’s tough with not much leeway between success and failure. We are no longer getting slaughtered by  huge margins. So we have improved over recent years. But the competition is fierce and clearly we have gaps in our playing list. Our skills have not been up to standard and we don’t have many A graders. In addition the jury is still out on our head coach and his game plan. 

But let’s talk about the present and future not the past. 

With respect Ernest our financial position worsened last season ($1.5Million loss) despite being heavily invested in Pokies & NT money. 

And those 2 income streams are being scaled back moving forward.

On top of that the virus is effecting the financial viability of all clubs so we'd be better placed if we were in a strong financial position.

And we lost 17 games last season and lost our way (again)  Our former captain (Nathan Jones) described the year as the toughest he'd been through.  Even worse than 2012/13?

I'd like to share your optimism but I'm circumspect about it all.  Any sort of success this season would be viewed as a bonus (IMO)

Edited May 18, 2020 by Macca

[Half forward flank 1,022]

14 minutes ago, hemingway said:

With respect Dr,  we understand it and recognise, but regurgitating the same issues over 40 or 50 years does not reveal the universal truth. How many times do you need to write and read about the same issues. 

All we do is reinforce the negativity surrounding the club. We all recognise the issues and our lack of success, but it does not result in success on the field. 

The club has been trying to achieve success for a long time. Our efforts from the time that PJ and Roos came aboard have been designed to do this. Our financial position has improved and our administration has been stable. We have many capable people on board.  But it’s tough with not much leeway between success and failure. We are no longer getting slaughtered by  huge margins. So we have improved over recent years. But the competition is fierce and clearly we have gaps in our playing list. Our skills have not been up to standard and we don’t have many A graders. In addition the jury is still out on our head coach and his game plan. 

But let’s talk about the present and future not the past. 

I agree with much of your assessment and focusing on the present and the future. I am hanging on in hope this could be a year to get on a run make a go of it. Really no one has excuses this year. Sure the losers will blame the virus and its disturbance but there is a Flag to be one. My big concern is the coach,, after a reasonable time at the top the jury is still out whether he has the all round attributes to compete with the top coaches.  

[Sir Why You Little 37,010]

5 hours ago, praha said:

Daniher should have been moved on after 2003. And definitely after our breakdown in 2004. In 2005 we lost 7 games in a row and barely made finals..In 2006 we lost our first 3 games and also lost to Carlton twice (won 3 games for the year) costing us a top 4 spot. 

In hindsigh it is rather astonishing that Daniher lasted as long as he did. 

Yes 2005 & 2006 were treading water

We made finals but did nothing. Bad mistake, but we all still love The Rev. 

[poita 3,898]

5 minutes ago, Macca said:

With respect Ernest our financial position worsened last season ($1.5Million loss) despite being heavily invested in Pokies & NT money. 

And those 2 income streams are being scaled back moving forward.

On top of that the virus is effecting the financial viability of all clubs so we'd be better placed if we were in a strong financial position.

And we lost 17 games last season and lost our way (again)  Our former captain (Nathan Jones) described the year as the worst he'd been through.  Even worse than 2012/13?

I'd like to share your optimism but I'm circumspect about it all.  Any sort of success this season would be viewed as a bonus (IMO)

Pretty much where I sit with this club too. 2019 was easily the most disappointing season I have sat through in 34 years of membership. 

If the first six weeks of the new season don't show significant signs of improvement, I fear we are back to where we were in 2007 - 2008.

[Sir Why You Little 37,010]

26 minutes ago, hemingway said:

With respect Dr,  we understand it and recognise, but regurgitating the same issues over 40 or 50 years does not reveal the universal truth. How many times do you need to write and read about the same issues. 

All we do is reinforce the negativity surrounding the club. We all recognise the issues and our lack of success, but it does not result in success on the field. 

The club has been trying to achieve success for a long time. Our efforts from the time that PJ and Roos came aboard have been designed to do this. Our financial position has improved and our administration has been stable. We have many capable people on board.  But it’s tough with not much leeway between success and failure. We are no longer getting slaughtered by  huge margins. So we have improved over recent years. But the competition is fierce and clearly we have gaps in our playing list. Our skills have not been up to standard and we don’t have many A graders. In addition the jury is still out on our head coach and his game plan. 

But let’s talk about the present and future not the past. 

Ernie Younger Supporters don’t always know the history. That is why the thread was started 

knowledge should be passed on. As a writer i am sure you understand that

[Macca 16,946]

26 minutes ago, poita said:

Pretty much where I sit with this club too. 2019 was easily the most disappointing season I have sat through in 34 years of membership. 

If the first six weeks of the new season don't show significant signs of improvement, I fear we are back to where we were in 2007 - 2008.

I'm the same ... 2012 through to the end of 2014 we were bereft of talent.

We were hopeful back then but deep down there wasn't a lot of substance on the list or within the FD.

Roos first year where we went 4 & 18 confirmed a lot of things. 

And Roos delisting or trading out 30+ players over 3 off-seasons also confirmed a lot of things.

Last season was unacceptable.

Edited May 18, 2020 by Macca

[bush demon 2,039]

1 hour ago, Macca said:

Defamation it is then.  Although a person can go to jail for up to 3 years (in this Country)  with regards to extreme cases of defamation.

Calling an umpire a cheat on live TV might not seem to all that harmful to some but Don Blew had other ideas.  And good on him for sticking up for himself.  Again,  Smith settled out of court after Don Blew sued him for defamation.

An extreme case of defamation?  I reckon maybe but such is the disdain for footy umpires in general,  most would disagree with my thoughts

Fact is the board were probably never going to back Smith re his slanderous comments and the rest is history. 

And I stand by my assertion that Smith in some ways brought about his own downfall.  But again,  great coach.

On the surface of it the Board should never have sacked him but they might have wanted to disassociate themselves from him and his actions and comments.  Why else would they sack him? 

When Don Blew blew, Norm Smith blued. Apologies  in advance for any syntax or grammatical errors.

[hemingway 7,615]

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Ernie Younger Supporters don’t always know the history. That is why the thread was started 

knowledge should be passed on. As a writer i am sure you understand that

True Sir, I guess some of us are in the last Q and need to see success replace failure. 

[hemingway 7,615]

1 hour ago, Macca said:

With respect Ernest our financial position worsened last season ($1.5Million loss) despite being heavily invested in Pokies & NT money. 

And those 2 income streams are being scaled back moving forward.

On top of that the virus is effecting the financial viability of all clubs so we'd be better placed if we were in a strong financial position.

And we lost 17 games last season and lost our way (again)  Our former captain (Nathan Jones) described the year as the toughest he'd been through.  Even worse than 2012/13?

I'd like to share your optimism but I'm circumspect about it all.  Any sort of success this season would be viewed as a bonus (IMO)

Well said. 

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

14 hours ago, hemingway said:

Not sure why supporters want to wallow in the mire by constantly revisiting the past. Very depressing. It is what it is. The past gets revisited all the time and despite folks best and worst efforts there is never any clarity and indeed there will never be an answer. 

To effect change for the better,  my dear hemingway.

To sit on ones hands,  and let another era of directors go the same path,  is to expect more of the same. 

To excite the supporter base, and to get them to finally put down the redNblue glasses,  and to look at our pasts results,  is to see what has truly taken place in our past,  as the results show compared to other clubs,  who operate from outside the walls of the Mcg.

 

The other clubs have 'Boards',  and they do not have board meetings inside the Mcg,  and most have been highly successful in their past 40Yrs of AFL.

I think they are closer to true AFL footy clubs,  with their footy boards meetings,  based well outside the Mcg.  

 

You know,  the Blues,  Bummers,  Roos,  Swans,  Bris-Lions,  Eagles,  and the Hawks,  have all done much better than us,  during our time of Drought...    So I think that basing the club and administration,  outside the Mcg,  will not hinder us,  but rather, make us more football conscious,  and better run,  than we have been.

 

Change starts with the people,  when they want it.    When they're ready to grasp it.

At the moment,  and our past moments of a half a century,  the main thing that has occurred with us,  is no change largely.  And this has been driven by our Boards failings.

[Diamond_Jim 12,555]

released   1966 ... close

 

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

4 hours ago, Macca said:

Very good point Gonzo ... doomed to making the same mistakes over and over again because of inherent thinking. 

Not being able to adapt is one thing but refusing to adapt is another.

When our board is based deep inside the Mcc, and has Mcc approved directors,  how are we supposed to expect a board,  that can think outside of the original box,  to be able to make big changes required,  to set the club up independently,  for our futures sake.

 

Hell,  the last time we had a major, sorry,  the 2nd last time we had a major hurdle regarding the clubs existence as the Demons,  was when our off field leaders were to recommend we merge the club.

 

Are we so bereft of ideas and of courage,  that we think that Merging is preferable...  to being based outside the Mcg walls.?

.

[Sir Why You Little 37,010]

35 minutes ago, hemingway said:

True Sir, I guess some of us are in the last Q and need to see success replace failure. 

That we do indeed. I am so tired of Faillure

[Guzzie 20]

The Board were split with ego driven factions leading to bad strategic decisions and interfering with the coaching and admin staff, rot always spreads.

[Delusional demon 82 1,197]

34 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

released   1966 ... close

 

Where did it all go wrong Jim ? 

We went downtown after ‘64 and stayed there !

[Sir Why You Little 37,010]

57 minutes ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

To effect change for the better,  my dear hemingway.

To sit on ones hands,  and let another era of directors go the same path,  is to expect more of the same. 

To excite the supporter base, and to get them to finally put down the redNblue glasses,  and to look at our pasts results,  is to see what has truly taken place in our past,  as the results show compared to other clubs,  who operate from outside the walls of the Mcg.

 

The other clubs have 'Boards',  and they do not have board meetings inside the Mcg,  and most have been highly successful in their past 40Yrs of AFL.

I think they are closer to true AFL footy clubs,  with their footy boards meetings,  based well outside the Mcg.  

 

You know,  the Blues,  Bummers,  Roos,  Swans,  Bris-Lions,  Eagles,  and the Hawks,  have all done much better than us,  during our time of Drought...    So I think that basing the club and administration,  outside the Mcg,  will not hinder us,  but rather, make us more football conscious,  and better run,  than we have been.

 

Change starts with the people,  when they want it.    When they're ready to grasp it.

At the moment,  and our past moments of a half a century,  the main thing that has occurred with us,  is no change largely.  And this has been driven by our Boards failings.

All this talk of the MCG being the root of our evil problems makes me laugh out loud. 
We were just as useless in the 80’s after we did leave

We are lucky to be part of a 100,000 seat ground. 
we would have ceased to be otherwise

Carefull what you wish Ranger Rover

[george_on_the_outer 7,590]

Having been following the MFC for a long, long time and  wishing to make all the arguments raised so far into something concise...what I have seen for myself and have read about in the various histories of the Club, is that the common factor which has caused our demise is:

Lack of Resources, and/or the willingness to apply resources to winning football matches.

In "The Red Fox" there are multiple stories of the arguments that Smith had with the committee, long before his sacking in 1965.  All of them were about resources.  Other clubs were recruiting players and paying them good money, like Polly Farmer, Darryl Baldock etc, but the MCC committee refused to participate in this. 

Even before this we had the stories of Fanning and others who left at the height of their careers, simply because they could earn a living playing football in country leagues. 

In 1964 the days of the amateur player were as good as over.  Even Barassi was offered 3,000 pounds and a 10,000 pound loan to join Carlton, which  he said was something he would not have got at Melbourne. 

But the MCC committee still continued to stick its head in the sand, about what was happening.  Until Barassi returned and made an ultimately futile attempt to turn the club into a professional operation, by removing it from the MCC, the Club was simply bled dry of talent or watched that talent disappear to other clubs.  Zones that we had were not developed.  Recruiting and more importantly, development was not done in those zones.  They were just left to their own devices, while the MCC concentrated on what it was formed for...cricket. Contrast that with the work that Hawthorn and Richmond were doing in their zones.  

A friend of mine who worked as a teacher in the Eastern suburbs in the 80's said that any school that asked for a Hawthorn player to turn up to meet with the kids, kick a footy, were always obliged.  Small wonder their supporter base grew over the subsequent periods.

The MFC was banned from training at the MCG from 1985, so off to the Junction oval we were sent....to stay for the next 25 years!  How much was spent by the MCC on facilities there....so little that the MFC Coterie group had to chip in to get a portable for the coaches to have a room to work in.  Then the footballers were tossed out during cricket season in any case as it was still used to play games. 

It was a miracle that we had any success during this period!  Other clubs were establishing proper facilities, were buying players from interstate, making offers to any talented players to join while Melbourne watched the likes of Healy, Spalding, Thompson and other disappear or players like Jarman not come.  Why would they not?!

It was not until the Stynes team convinced the MCC to kick in $1M per year that the club got any revenue from them for nearly 25 years.  Even today 25,000 MCC members identify with the MFC, but as was pointed out at last years AGM, 4-5,000 of them come to more than 5 matches and don't take out a MCC/MFC membership.  The MCC gets all the loot from football, yet gives little back.  Same as in Norm Smith's day.

It first really struck me about 30 years ago at at MFC AGM.  The total assets of the club which had then been operating for nearly 150 years was less than the average house value in Melbourne!  That was fine when you were running an amateur organisation, but this was supposed to be a professional operation. 

I can't remember who said it, but it was claimed that the MFC were "the most professional in the amateur era, and the most amateur in the professional era.  Small wonder there has been so little success".

 

[Satyriconhome 10,742]

4 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Ernie Younger Supporters don’t always know the history. That is why the thread was started 

knowledge should be passed on. As a writer i am sure you understand that

Knowledge? That's drawing a long bow

Pessimistic opinion, hindsight revisionism would be more apt

There are supposedly long standing members and supporters on here, not being happy with what was occurring, did they do anything about it     say voting out board members etc   nah too hard   easier to snioe from the sidelines

All talk no action, that is history, the present and the future

 

Edited May 18, 2020 by Satyriconhome

[Sir Why You Little 37,010]

5 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Knowledge? That's drawing a long bow

Pessimistic opinion, hindsight revisionism would be more apt

There are supposedly long standing members and supporters on here, not being happy with what was occurring, did they do anything about it     say voting out board members etc   nah too hard   easier to snioe from the sidelines

All talk no action, that is history, the present and the future

 

You have no idea what anybody has done for this club over the years...
 

Stop being a Sniper. The War is over

[daisycutter 29,606]

what is saty doing on here and not at training?

[Satyriconhome 10,742]

40 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

You have no idea what anybody has done for this club over the years...
 

Stop being a Sniper. The War is over

So, let's hear it, have we posters who are responsible for the basket case of a club that some on here keep repeating it is?

[Macca 16,946]

Smith was exceptional ... to have all that success without a working Committee (Board) was phenomenal. 

Still reckon the zones put an end to things but as has been pointed out in previous posts above,  we didn't put enough work into the zones anyway. 

The Metro area included a few inner South East suburbs such as Prahran & Malvern.  Then another pocket which included suburbs such as Murrumbeena & Ormond and another pocket which included the not-fully-developed Edithvale & Aspendale suburbs.   Not strong footy suburbs at the time.

Our Country zone (Goulburn Valley League) wasn't all that productive either.  But again,  how much work did we put into these zones?  Previously we brought in any number of top talent's from all over Country Victoria.

Edited May 18, 2020 by Macca