1 hour ago, Lord Travis said:

Trengove wasn't slow pre-foot injury. His draft class 20m sprint was 2.95 seconds, which was in the top 20% of underage players tested for speed. Statistically, Trengove and Martin were near identical for their first two seasons. If anything, Trengove was more impressive as he had the same output as Martin whilst also being a leader in a struggling club with a poor environment and little support around him.

I recall Trenners trying to put on weight in the Gym and came out bigger, and struggling a little for form from that season.  I think this was Pre Navicular injury.

I was surprised Trengove was appointed joint captain as he was slow by then unfortunately. I remember posting that he might not even be best 22, he'd dropped his speed so much.

How Scully is not top 5 is beyond me.  Other than looking at the ankle injury 18 months ago.

 

His output over nearly a decade has been top 5.

 

Also, Richmond were lucky to hold on to Dusty when they let him go to GWS and inspect facilities.  Fact is Melbourne would not have held on to Fyfe (Lake Grace, Trucking & Surfing pull) or Martin if we landed them.  

The GWS and Gold Coast anomaly cost us Scully.  He accepted what 99.9999999% of us would have accepted.  When Stynes looked at him and demanded a guarantee, if this occurred, was ridiculous to ask from a kid who had the deal of a lifetime.

Players do return to clubs (Ablett etc...), but the way MFC supporters and the club treated the Scully saga was self-limiting potentially, and an absolute embarrassment.  Geelong supporters thank Christ were 3 steps above us.  The money bags thing was funny for the first game; but the continual jilted lover, traitor, liar-to-Jimmy's-face thing, is absolutely juvenile and absurd; and really reflects the veil of negativity and woe-is-me that transcends the club into its' supporter base. 

35 minutes ago, TGR said:

How Scully is not top 5 is beyond me.  Other than looking at the ankle injury 18 months ago.

 

His output over nearly a decade has been top 5.

 

Also, Richmond were lucky to hold on to Dusty when they let him go to GWS and inspect facilities.  Fact is Melbourne would not have held on to Fyfe (Lake Grace, Trucking & Surfing pull) or Martin if we landed them.  

The GWS and Gold Coast anomaly cost us Scully.  He accepted what 99.9999999% of us would have accepted.  When Stynes looked at him and demanded a guarantee, if this occurred, was ridiculous to ask from a kid who had the deal of a lifetime.

Players do return to clubs (Ablett etc...), but the way MFC supporters and the club treated the Scully saga was self-limiting potentially, and an absolute embarrassment.  Geelong supporters thank Christ were 3 steps above us.  The money bags thing was funny for the first game; but the continual jilted lover, traitor, liar-to-Jimmy's-face thing, is absolutely juvenile and absurd; and really reflects the veil of negativity and woe-is-me that transcends the club into its' supporter base. 

Probably the most level headed and non self serving post I have seen you make over the many years Rono.

I still hate Scully though!!!

Some revisionists on here. I'd bet that every single one of us thought Scully and Trengove would lead our midfield for a decade after the signs they showed in their first couple of seasons.

We all hate him, but Scully is a very good footballer. He'll finish his career as a 200, maybe 250 game player. Not too many bad footballers achieve that. He's not a superstar by any stretch, but he's definitely not a bust at pick 1 either.

I can only assume the author just forgot about Melksham. Putting bias aside, he's clearly a better player than the last few names on that list. 

3 hours ago, Damo said:

I was surprised Trengove was appointed joint captain as he was slow by then unfortunately. I remember posting that he might not even be best 22, he'd dropped his speed so much.

In hindsight,  for him personally,  being greedy on his behalf;  at least he can hang his hat in future on the fact he as been an AFL captain of the Mfc.

5 hours ago, Lord Travis said:

100% agree with this. Trengove was the pick of the bunch in my eyes, and all draft rankings had Scully and Trengove as undisputed number 1&2. Our issue wasn't getting the picks wrong, it was development.

Trengove wasn't slow pre-foot injury. His draft class 20m sprint was 2.95 seconds, which was in the top 20% of underage players tested for speed. Statistically, Trengove and Martin were near identical for their first two seasons. If anything, Trengove was more impressive as he had the same output as Martin whilst also being a leader in a struggling club with a poor environment and little support around him. He was the closest thing I'd seen to James Hird at a similar age - he was excelling all over the ground and oozed leadership and class. Once he got made the youngest AFL captain in history and suffered injuries, his output dropped off and statically he actually became worse than his debut year and never recovered. It's proof that injuries and poor development meant he didn't get the best out of himself. I truly believe had he not suffered those debilitating injuries and had better development by the club, he would've become a great of the club and likely one of the best players in the game.

There have been rare cases of poor drafting - Lucas Cook for example - but reality is the main issue for our club is development, and we still haven't got development right decades later. Guys like Petracca should be stars of the game instead of just flashes.

I remember when Roos came on board one of the first things he identified was our awful track record of development, we created quite a number of "good players" of the years and maybe one or two developed above their supposed raw talent, but when it came to top 10 & top 20 picks we were terrible for a long time. Look at Travis Johnston, such incredible talent, he should've been a champion for us. I even look at Cale Morton, yes he was skinny but he showed some bloody good potential in his early years. I can't go on without mentioning a certain Jack Watts, probably the most miss-managed player our club has ever had. I could run a list a mile long of players that showed they had fantastic attributes to them and they needed someone to harness that potential into a consistent footballer. 

3 hours ago, TGR said:

How Scully is not top 5 is beyond me.  Other than looking at the ankle injury 18 months ago.

His output over nearly a decade has been top 5.

Also, Richmond were lucky to hold on to Dusty when they let him go to GWS and inspect facilities.  Fact is Melbourne would not have held on to Fyfe (Lake Grace, Trucking & Surfing pull) or Martin if we landed them.  

The GWS and Gold Coast anomaly cost us Scully.  He accepted what 99.9999999% of us would have accepted.  When Stynes looked at him and demanded a guarantee, if this occurred, was ridiculous to ask from a kid who had the deal of a lifetime.

Players do return to clubs (Ablett etc...), but the way MFC supporters and the club treated the Scully saga was self-limiting potentially, and an absolute embarrassment.  Geelong supporters thank Christ were 3 steps above us.  The money bags thing was funny for the first game; but the continual jilted lover, traitor, liar-to-Jimmy's-face thing, is absolutely juvenile and absurd; and really reflects the veil of negativity and woe-is-me that transcends the club into its' supporter base. 

When Gaz left Geelong he helped them to a premiership and won a Brownlow medal and then like Scully was given a godfather deal he couldn't turn down. The cats fans had every reason to be humble and thankful to him, particularly being the son of a legend, anything other than class would've looked ridiculous.

When Scully left the Dees as you pointed out he was offered a deal the 99% of the population would have taken, I didn't have any ill will towards Tom and I thought the villains in that show were GWS for putting a young bloke in such a difficult position. Tom played well at GWS but his first few years weren't outstanding, they were good. If Jimmy really did ask Tom to guarantee a commitment, essentially to a dying man, it was an awful position to put him in. One of the stories goes that he asked if he had agreed to leave already, that is a fair question, and if Tom lied to Jimmy at that point then that's not on.

As for the Dees fans, it was comical and a little embarrassing at times but I don't have an issue with it. You can't compare Ablett's departure to Scully's, completely different people and completely different times in their career.

Personally I would've welcomed Scully back with zero hesitation were he interested.

On 4/27/2020 at 9:24 AM, Damo said:

There were no Luke Molan moments in this draft. IIRC all our own pundits and the press thought we picked correctly.

We used the same strategy in picking Trengove as we did with Clarry a couple of years later.i.e. A late bolter. Rear view mirror stuff.

Trengove couldn't get his own ball. It should have been Scully and Martin.

On 4/27/2020 at 8:38 PM, Sir Why You Little said:

No. It’s not what i thought yesterday 

got nothing to do with being obvious 

neither of those players were ever going to be Gamebreakers

 

I've asked before , but are you positive you don't have an acquired brain injury? Oh and I see you have 20/20 vision ..... in hindsight!!

On 4/27/2020 at 11:28 AM, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

Scully and Trengove were an absolute lock; as certain a top two as Rowell and Anderson last year.
I challenge anyone to find a source from 2009 that says otherwise.

 

Wasn't it shown in the draft video that we rated Jackson ahead of Anderson?

20 hours ago, TGR said:

How Scully is not top 5 is beyond me.  Other than looking at the ankle injury 18 months ago.

 

His output over nearly a decade has been top 5.

 

Also, Richmond were lucky to hold on to Dusty when they let him go to GWS and inspect facilities.  Fact is Melbourne would not have held on to Fyfe (Lake Grace, Trucking & Surfing pull) or Martin if we landed them.  

The GWS and Gold Coast anomaly cost us Scully.  He accepted what 99.9999999% of us would have accepted.  When Stynes looked at him and demanded a guarantee, if this occurred, was ridiculous to ask from a kid who had the deal of a lifetime.

Players do return to clubs (Ablett etc...), but the way MFC supporters and the club treated the Scully saga was self-limiting potentially, and an absolute embarrassment.  Geelong supporters thank Christ were 3 steps above us.  The money bags thing was funny for the first game; but the continual jilted lover, traitor, liar-to-Jimmy's-face thing, is absolutely juvenile and absurd; and really reflects the veil of negativity and woe-is-me that transcends the club into its' supporter base. 

No fact there, just the opinion of a Richmond supporter

21 hours ago, dworship said:

I've asked before , but are you positive you don't have an acquired brain injury? Oh and I see you have 20/20 vision ..... in hindsight!!

You are all class

the hate for $cully from the majority of mfc supporters is mostly pantomime, isn't it? i have always enjoyed the fact that he played 31 senior games for us - the quintessential mfc number?

trengove was a real shame - he was outstanding at sanfl level in his junior year, oozed leadership, and was placed in an environment where he was called on to do too much too soon; his first two seasons showed so much promise

when he came back he'd gone from a 65m player (run 15, kick it 50) to a player who could barely kick over 40 metres and could barely rise out of what looked to be a slow jog

injuries are cruel

Nev Jetta should be in calculations!

Scully and Trengrove was by far the best 2 in this draft , everyone would have drafted them if they had either pick 

port offered pick 6 and pick 8 for out pick 2 to get Trengrove !

hindsight is wonderfully thing 

 

On 4/28/2020 at 11:19 AM, Lord Travis said:

There have been rare cases of poor drafting - Lucas Cook for example

*shudders*

The biggest reach for 'needs' of all time. Thanks Barry P.

it's worth remembering that Richmond sacked its chief recruiter after a number of top ten drafting fails.

To say that it is an inexact science is an understatement.

Recent events will increase the gap between the haves and the have nots which makes success with this list all the more important.

On 4/27/2020 at 8:45 PM, Pates said:

It's interesting people remember Trenners pre-injury as being slow anyway, I certainly don't. I'm not saying he was going to win any 10m sprints but I felt he had enough power out of his first 5 steps to get away quick enough.

I remember a tigers game in particular (I think it was his second year) where he was a powerhouse. He had the attributes to be a gun, he lost them from the injuries (and I also join the "miss-management" group as well).

Scully was always seen as number one, and really we saw enough to suggest it was the right move. For me the debate was always Trenners vs Dusty, I think we went for better character over raw talent (not that JT was talentless). Nobody picked Fyfe to become the player he has.

I wrote this in 2011:

There is one thing that is stopping Trengove from becoming elite and he needs to address it now.

His acceleration is shocking, the first three steps are the most important, and this is the one thing that his hindering his development.

Now, the status quo on here will dismiss this and ignore the fact that I do rate him highly. But, we need elite players and he won't reach elite status if this isn't addressed.

He will be a very good player, possibly even a club great but we need players like him to tear games open.

 

Trengove's Achilles Heel

1 hour ago, Clint Bizkit said:

I wrote this in 2011:

There is one thing that is stopping Trengove from becoming elite and he needs to address it now.

His acceleration is shocking, the first three steps are the most important, and this is the one thing that his hindering his development.

Now, the status quo on here will dismiss this and ignore the fact that I do rate him highly. But, we need elite players and he won't reach elite status if this isn't addressed.

He will be a very good player, possibly even a club great but we need players like him to tear games open.

 

Trengove's Achilles Heel

I remember you writing that CB and agreed 100%
hindsight was nowhere to be seen

3 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I remember you writing that CB and agreed 100%
hindsight was nowhere to be seen

Not that I don't believe you, but can you prove it?

I don't mean to be disingenuous and perhaps it's because I can't remember everything I did yesterday.

Let alone what some poster said about Trengove 9 years ago.

On 4/30/2020 at 3:47 PM, goodoil said:

Nev Jetta should be in calculations!

He was drafted in 2008.

At the time I thought we should have had a good look at Dusty for sole reason that we needed some mongrel in the squad. Trenners and Scully were maybe the obvious talents but to me we had a list of nice players. In 2008 I preferred Hurley at No1 but we went for Watts, that is OK but then you have to mix it up to get a great squad. Consistently picking skilled but non physical players throughout that period cost us. Add Morton, Gysberts, Grimes, Bennell, Blease, Maric and you keep selecting supposedly skilled outsiders but no insiders and no enforcers you get an inconsistent team. That is because you lack leadership, aggression in a physical, competitive sport. Remembering around that time we offloaded Junior and Bruce. So your drafting and trading should take that into account. 

2 hours ago, dworship said:

Not that I don't believe you, but can you prove it?

I don't mean to be disingenuous and perhaps it's because I can't remember everything I did yesterday.

Let alone what some poster said about Trengove 9 years ago.

Give it a rest will you. I don’t answer to you

 

2 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Give it a rest will you. I don’t answer to you

 

That's pretty much the answer I thought you would produce. It's taken a while but I have you pegged now as a narcissist.

It's not that I dislike you, it's just that I've struggled to understand where you're coming from.

The latest info (or rather lack of) has been informative though.

I'm not being holy er than thou (Binman may argue otherwise), it's just my nature to question the comments and motives of people who continually try to promote themselves without any substance.

As someone that has judgemental tendencies I'm compelled to question what I see as illogical, sycophantic or narcissistic comments.

Your reply clearly places you in one (or more) of those categorises. 

Edited May 1, 20204 yr by dworship