Training Ground?

[Redleg 41,421]

2 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I am well aware, am also very aware of the interest the Bank would charge to borrow that amount. 
 

And you would also be very well aware that the school has a very long and strong relationship with a major bank and they I would expect, would assist with a very competitive interest rate, even though that would still be a large amount.

Not sure why any neighbours would therefore be worried, other than having a school opposite their homes, instead of disused stables where the rats and foxes are probably having a field day.

[Oxdee 437]

2 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

You could well be right, but it wouldn’t suprise me at all if they already had the money ready to go

Much of it would come from the sale of the Burwood campus and primary school centres in st Kilda and Caulfield. Even so, $195m is a lot of money and that’s without anything being built. I won’t even have a guess on how much it will cost to build a school 

[Sir Why You Little 37,124]

52 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

so, what's your point?

Mt Scopus will get exactly what they want and if that encroaches on the MFC over time, we will suffer 

[Redleg 41,421]

2 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

You could well be right, but it wouldn’t suprise me at all if they already had the money ready to go

I can assure you they don't. 

What they have are two campuses they own and a community prepared to fundraise to assist, but in the end the bank will be a big part of this facility, much like the MFC facilities I would imagine, given the large estimate floated about the MFC cost of getting it all done.

[Sir Why You Little 37,124]

12 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Depends on what they get for their other two campuses that they own, but they will be borrowing a fair bit for sure and the bridging loan for getting the place bought and built will be enormous.

This is the crux of course. I don’t think they would commit to such a huge project if they had to borrow substantially. 
$195 Million for the soil is mind boggling for a school campus 

[Redleg 41,421]

7 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Mt Scopus will get exactly what they want and if that encroaches on the MFC over time, we will suffer 

No, Mt Scopus will get what they pay for and that is not the area wanted by the MFC.

The MFC will get what they want, which is completely separate and distinct from what the school will have.

As has been said before, the MFC is probably going to lease Crown Land from the Trust and that has nothing to do with the school site.

Believe it or not.

[Redleg 41,421]

5 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

This is the crux of course. I don’t think they would commit to such a huge project if they had to borrow substantially. 
$195 Million for the soil is mind boggling for a school campus 

Its a fair bit of soil in Caulfield and in years to come, as with all purchases of land, won't sound so expensive.

[Sir Why You Little 37,124]

2 minutes ago, Redleg said:

No, Mt Scopus will get what they pay for and that is not the area wanted by the MFC.

The MFC will get what they want, which is completely separate and distinct from what the school will have.

As has been said before, the MFC is probably going to lease Crown Land from the Trust and that has nothing to do with the school site.

Believe it or not.

This may be a current agreement, but do you trust it long term?

I am concerned 

[Redleg 41,421]

5 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

This may be a current agreement, but do you trust it long term?

I am concerned 

I really don't understand what you are getting at.

The MFC builds their facilities on Crown land, with probably a 99 year lease.

They then control their area.

How can someone then take it and for what purpose?

The school is purchasing a freehold area, which will in all likelihood be fenced off.

That will be their facility.

They are separate and legally controlled.

Do you think the kinder kids are going to stage a sit in, in the MFC admin building?

 

 

[rjay 25,082]

10 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I am implying that i am concerned at the arrangement between Scopus and the MFC. We are going to be very much the little brother. 
i am thinking long term….

There is no arrangement with Scopus and the MFC...and no reason for one.

As 'Red' says above our arrangement would be with the Trust.

[Sir Why You Little 37,124]

5 minutes ago, Redleg said:

I really don't understand what you are getting at.

The MFC builds their facilities on Crown land, with probably a 99 year lease.

They then control their area.

How can someone then take it and for what purpose?

The school is purchasing a freehold area, which will in all likelihood be fenced off.

That will be their facility.

They are separate and legally controlled.

Do you think the kinder kids are going to stage a sit in, in the MFC admin building?

 

 

Not at all.
But Schools expand and Scopus is a very prestigious school that will always have funds available to do what they want. 
As they move in, they will get Council representation. 
 

[Timothy Reddan-A'Blew 5,272]

Sorry if this has been posted before, but...

The Mt Scopus plans don't seem to be a problem for the Club:

https://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/1703615/caulfield-business-plan-update-mount-scopus

[No. 31 1,305]

I don't think Scopus has a prominent sports program, it was always a more academically oriented school. If it was a Haileybury or Xavier moving in next door, the concern that they might try to muscle in on the two ovals to be used by MFC could be more realistic. In any event, I would expect MFC to have a very detailed agreement set in concrete concerning access and use of the two ovals.

[Whispering_Jack 30,640]

7 hours ago, No. 31 said:

I don't think Scopus has a prominent sports program, it was always a more academically oriented school. 

That would be the Scopus that produced a player who has achieved the following in the last two years after being drafted at # 3 in the 2022 National Draft -

• AFL Rising Star: 2023

• Syd Barker Medal: 2023

• AFLPA Best First Year Player: 2023

• AFLCA Best Young Player: 2024

• 2x 22under22 team: 2023, 2024.

[Roost it far 8,578]

10 hours ago, DemonWheels said:

They’ll sell squillions worth of property from their other (very large, highly lucrative) campuses to get the money. Plus in the nicest way possible, as a generalization the social / religious group they belong to are financially healthy (good at saving) and they have a large constituency / community of highly active and involved members who are prone to trying to get the best for their own such community (if they spend, they spend close to home). Simples.

I find the whole concept of private schools offensive. I find the government funding of them even more so. I guess that’s a different argument 

[Lucifers Hero 40,351]

first-look-at-the-new-mount-scopus-super-campus-in-caulfield

Some extracts:

Nearby residents and the broader Jewish community will have access to the adult education facilities, creative arts centre and synagogue on the new campus, in addition to the new sports precinct.

The early learning to year 12 campus will include a sports precinct among its state-of-the-art facilities open to the public, and could include shared facilities with Melbourne Football Club, which plans to build a home base at the site.

The $195 million purchase from Melbourne Racing Club ends a search of more than 10 years for a new site for the school and clears the racing club of its $165 million debt.

The Demons made it clear through the feasibility process that the club would need access to the ovals for only 17 hours a week, and the remainder of the time they would be available for the community. The club would also be responsible for oval maintenance.

Scopus plans to build its own oval on the 7.5-hectare site, which is on the western perimeter of the racecourse and does not include the infield.

The above seem to be journalistic commentary.  Some quotes by a Scopus rep:

"Gold: said Scopus contacted Melbourne Football Club for the first time on Tuesday, as confidentiality obligations had prevented the school from speaking before the sale was made public.

“We’re happy to talk to all stakeholders in the area about how we can work together and what facilities we can jointly build,”

“We’re ready to work with the Victorian government, Mount Scopus Memorial College and Melbourne Racing Club toward a positive outcome for the community.

The major benefit I see is possible joint development and maybe sourcing joint funding. 

The risk is assessment of 'community benefit and community use' in the respective business cases/developments and will there be competition for the 'community groups' to use respective facilities?  Not sure what community facilities we had planned in our buildings but I suspect there will be overlap with those in the Scopus faciiity. 

Re communication, I get the need for confidentiality but surprised mfc wasn't given a 'heads up' in advance.  Particularly as building a relationship will be important.

 

Edited December 10 by Lucifers Hero

[daisycutter 29,733]

8 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Not at all.
But Schools expand and Scopus is a very prestigious school that will always have funds available to do what they want. 
As they move in, they will get Council representation. 
 

i think you are being a bit quixotic, swyl

[No. 31 1,305]

1 hour ago, Whispering_Jack said:

That would be the Scopus that produced a player who has achieved the following in the last two years after being drafted at # 3 in the 2022 National Draft -

• AFL Rising Star: 2023

• Syd Barker Medal: 2023

• AFLPA Best First Year Player: 2023

• AFLCA Best Young Player: 2024

• 2x 22under22 team: 2023, 2024.

Scopus produced Harry or was it AJAX and Sandringham Dragons? It is like saying McKinnon Secondary College produced the greatest ruckman of modern times. Love Max's (and my) high school alma mater but a sporting school it never was. I think Ormond FC and Sandringham Dragons had more to do with Max's footballing development than his high school.

[binman 43,741]

Having Mt Scopus as neighbours can only be a good thing, particularly if we are sincere about working with the community.

One of the things the dees have lacked in my time is a sense of connection to a specific locality based community.

In the 70s all Vic clubs bar us and Fitzroy (and perhaps the swans - Lakeside felt a bit disconnected from South Melbourne) - played and trained surrounded by community.

Glenferrie, Linton St, Windy Hill, KP, Princess Park, Arden Street, Punt Road, Whitten Oval, Victoria Park, Lakeside all gave clubs a sense of place, and a natural fan base that to greater or lesser extent remains an important part of their identity.

It's no suprise clubs that have moved from their traditional home ground (or in the saint's case returned home) have looked to replicate that community focused model - the hawks at Waverley Park, and soon dingley, the hangar at tulla.

The pies are the exception, but am I right to think they still have their admin at Victoria Park?

A training base at Caulfield gives us an incredible opportunity to parachute into an established, thriving community - unlike say the hawks to VFL Park and the bombers at tulla where there were new, still developing communities.

Building really strong, meaningful connections with our organisational neighbours - MRC, Monash and Mount Scopus is an absolute no brainer, as is connecting with the terrific local footy clubs in the surrounding area.

Make those connections and the connection to the broader Caulfield community will organically develop.

And that community will become a source of future supporters and members for decades to come in the way Hawthorn still benefit from the glenferrie connection despite leaving that area 40 years ago.

Edited December 10 by binman

[DistrACTION Jackson 9,224]

3 minutes ago, binman said:

Having Mt Scopus as neighbours can only be a good thing, particularly if we are sincere about working with the community.

One of the things the dees have lacked in my time is a sense of connection to a specific locality based community.

In the 70s all Vic clubs bar us and Fitzroy (and perhaps the swans - Lakeside felt a bit disconnected from South Melbourne) played and trained surrounded by community.

Glenferrie, Linton St, Windy Hill, KP, Princess Park, Arden Street, Punt Road, Whitten Oval, Victoria Park, Lakeside all gave clubs a sense of place and a natural fan base that to greater or lesser remains an important part of their identity.

It's no suprise clubs that have moved from their traditional home ground (or in the saint's case returned home) have looked to replicate that community focused model - the hawks at Waverley Park, and soon dingley, the hangar at tulla.

The pies are the exception, but am I right to think they still have their admin at Victoria Park?

A training base at Caulfield gives us an incredible opportunity to parachute into an established, thriving community - unlike say the hawks to VFL Park and the bombers at tulla where there were new, still developing communities.

Building really strong, meaningful connections with our organisational neighbours - MRC, Monash and Mount Scopus is an absolute no brainer, as is connecting with the terrific local footy clubs in the surrounding area.

Make those connections and the connection to the broader Caulfield community will organically develop.

And that community will become a source of future supporters and members for decades to come in the way Hawthorn still benefit from the glenferrie condition despite leaving that area 40 years ago.

100% agree. 

Really we should've been looking at a home base in this general location years ago, given it is essentially the Demon heartland. I love the MCG precinct and the surrounding area, but realistically it is impossible to build a community feel in that area.

[Mel Bourne 4,534]

8 minutes ago, binman said:

The pies are the exception, but am I right to think they still have their admin at Victoria Park?

Nah, not since 2005. 

[binman 43,741]

2 minutes ago, Mel Bourne said:

Nah, not since 2005. 

Hope springs eternal that breaking that connection to Collingwood will cause an inexorable decline in support for the pies.

[Redleg 41,421]

I wrote about a year and a half ago, based on info, that this MFC project at Caulfield would happen and that because Crown Land was involved, it had to have community involvement and benefit.

Nothing has changed.

The land the school has bought, would otherwise have gone to property developers, like at the Northern end of the Racecourse, as it was always the plan, once horse training ceased, that it would be sold by the MRC.

Far better for the MFC to have a school next door, than 1000's of apartments, which would have far less appeal to the MFC being a neighbour of Apartment towers, with all the traffic restrictions and other issues etc.

I think the MFC will be delighted with how this has transpired as you can read into the club release.

The club should get exactly what it wants and this new scenario helps that happen, as the Government is now behind the project and that was always very important to the MFC in getting the go ahead from the Trust, the manager of the Crown Land required by the MFC .

 

[No. 31 1,305]

Don't Collingwood still play some VFL and AFLW games at Victoria Park?

 

[Dannyz 2,851]

John Kanga has just now on RSN stated the MRC opposes Melbourne football club using the inside of the track.