Simon Goodwin on SEN (28/11/19)

[DeeSpencer 25,723]

6 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

Don't tell me there's another club not obsessed with reviewing a finals disaster! OMG they are definitely in for a bottom 2 finish!

Davis: Not in my top 5 to review

Someone pass the popcorn....

The only thing for us to review - and it’s the same for the Giants - is to not travel insterstate against the best team with a rabid home crowd on the back of 2 hard fought finals. 

That means finishing top 4 and having the good fortune of the majority of the best players ready for finals 

[Foopy on the telly 529]

44 minutes ago, picket fence said:

I've never heard Goodwin admit ANY mistake!!

If you DO NOT Review a huge loss in  preliminary final, as reported you are either NEGLIGENT, ARROGANT, or both!!

AND this talk about being Cooked?? Nar why were they Cooked??

Gee we have this mentality at MFC that close enough is good enough!

NOT GOOD ENOUGH!

 

Nuffies on Demonland

[Gator 17,383]

8 minutes ago, nacnud said:

Nuffies on Demonland

That's a little unkind to my friend Picket, Duncan.

Fwiw, I do think it's an error to not review your biggest loss of the year.  You review your wins and you review your losses.  Always.

That said, not one of our midfielders completed 50% of last year's preseason, so a horrible year was on the cards and is at least explainable. 

[Moonshadow 17,676]

1 hour ago, picket fence said:

I've never heard Goodwin admit ANY mistake!!

If you DO NOT Review a huge loss in  preliminary final, as reported you are either NEGLIGENT, ARROGANT, or both!!

AND this talk about being Cooked?? Nar why were they Cooked??

Gee we have this mentality at MFC that close enough is good enough!

NOT GOOD ENOUGH!

 

Every time I read your posts i do it in the voice of Donald Trump, then they make sense, in a Donald Trump kind of way

Edited December 8, 2019 by Moonshadow

[Foopy on the telly 529]

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

That's a little unkind to my friend Picket, Duncan.

Fwiw, I do think it's an error to not review your biggest loss of the year.  You review your wins and you review your losses.  Always.

That said, not one of our midfielders completed 50% of last year's preseason, so a horrible year was on the cards and is at least explainable. 

Yeah nah, it was just the large use of caps which I found funny, I don’t fully disagree with what picket said

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,857]

5 hours ago, Win4theAges said:

I think its been acknowledged and excepted that we were absolutely cooked by the time the Prelim rolled around.

I can distinctly remember Brendan McCartney saying that in an interview on this is your footballing life.

Yes exactly.

McCartney implied (in a recent SEN interview) that the coaching staff thought we were poor on the most part against Hawthorn in the semi and the writing was on the wall after the game.

I doubt however that they predicted we’d amass a half time prelim score of 0.6.6.

 

[RDBhero 65]

The "gun n run" of 2018 is risky with underdeveloped young players as they slow up later in the year and into next year....so hopefully last years experience ,player and coach development , and a balanced workmanlike game plan with real cohesion is evident now.

[Gator 17,383]

2 hours ago, nacnud said:

I don’t fully disagree with what picket said

I'm sure he's greatly relieved. 

[rjay 24,964]

8 hours ago, Win4theAges said:

I think its been acknowledged and excepted that we were absolutely cooked by the time the Prelim rolled around.

I can distinctly remember Brendan McCartney saying that in an interview on this is your footballing life.

 

2 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Yes exactly.

McCartney implied (in a recent SEN interview) that the coaching staff thought we were poor on the most part against Hawthorn in the semi and the writing was on the wall after the game.

I doubt however that they predicted we’d amass a half time prelim score of 0.6.6.

 

The first I've heard of us being absolutely cooked by the time of the Prelim has been on here post season.

I think it's a bit of revisionism...on here & from the likes of McCartney if that's what he's implying.

We were poor in that game from the first bounce.

I might accept it as an excuse if we faded in the 2nd half but I don't think the cooked excuse holds up for our first half performance.

The holes in our list were exposed.

That prelim showed a lot of what was to come.

Add the injury/surgery toll & you get season 2019.

[Ohio USA - David 107]

On 11/27/2019 at 7:01 PM, Demon3 said:

I was pretty disappointed with the club this year like everyone, the coaches, the players the admin, it was just a very poor year full of amateur mistakes, wrong messaging, underwhelming leadership and quite frankly a rather sickening response to a poor exit coming off a good year.

So i applaud the changes, the desire to make amends and the fact we have not sat on our hands and just expected we will bounce back. Goodwin is a relatively young coach, and all coaches face challenges, he did this year and im sure he will have learnt a lot, Richo will be a great addition to teh club. The Recruiters have identified areas where we could be better and gone and got players, Jury is out on Jackson for me, but i will embrace it, i love teh selection of Pickett, its a need we have. 

Im now prepared to let the last 12 months go and throw my full support behind the club. The past is behind us and the future in front of us. Go Dees.

Like all of us, 2019 was a down year but I feel it started with the 17 surgeries required from the end of the 2018 year. Coming into the 2019  season proper we were faced with many players still in rehab, many players who never went through a full pre season and all this had an unnerving lack of confidence effect built not only into the players individually but the Team as well. To be a successful team you almost need 19 players on the field at the same time. The 19th man being Mr Confidence. Look at T Mc... and even O Mc... one could sense that they lacked personal and Team confidence to the point that O Mc withdrew himself from the Seniors towards the end of the 2019 season to rejuvenate himself.

I recall Jonesy immediately after the Geelong Semi in 2018 saying that the buzz around the ground was like having an extra player on the ground. On Richo, I see him being a replacement for Brendan McCartney only I feel Richo will be more hands on.

My only criticism of McCartney was that he was not seen as an assistant coach who embraced all players but viewed as a Coach of coaches in the main. Richo's role in 2020 will be more of an assistant to Goody as he stated in the interview.

Edited December 8, 2019 by Ohio USA - David

[loges 6,767]

If you go into a game with 16-17 players requiring surgery as soon as the season finishes. that may give an indication as to why the team was cooked.

[sue 9,107]

38 minutes ago, loges said:

If you go into a game with 16-17 players requiring surgery as soon as the season finishes. that may give an indication as to why the team was cooked.

Harden up loges. Some here remind me of the Black Knight of MP & the Holy Grail.

[binman 43,131]

We were physically cooked half way through the first quarter. None more so than maxy, who was visibly struggling in the heat (it was really hot at the ground). The hawks has spent the entire semi smashing him so that had to have an impact.

But I think we were also cooked mentally, a related but still different issue. The eagles jumped us and we simply could not stop their momentum. And we made some howlers that fuelled that  momentum. So yes we absolutely played poorly, no question.

The discussion about goody supposedly not reviewing the game is just so silly. As if he didn't.

However I think his focus would not have been on issues such as game plan, game style and strategy.

And why would it? As he pointed out we didn't play anything resembling the 'Melbourne way'. Our game plan had got us there and we had beaten the eagles on their home deck with it only a few weeks prior. A game style i might add that is very similar philosophicaly to that of the tiger's who easily could have won the last 3 grand finals.  We simply could not execute it on the day.  

In this respect that game was a microcosm of our entire 2019 season. 

No, his focus would have been on why we were not mentally ready. And what he and the players can do differentely next time we are in an analogous situation.

[rjay 24,964]

24 minutes ago, binman said:

However I think his focus would not have been on issues such as game plan, game style and strategy.

We didn't have the list, he knew it & has expressed similar in more private surrounds as has been reported here.

It's why we recruited May...but he was only part of the story.

This trade/draft period we were able to fill more gaps.

No club has a perfect & complete list but ours is much closer now.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

Were we cooked physically?

Were we cooked mentally?

Or was it that, having beaten them at the same ground a month before, WCE put in some homework on us and worked out how to pick us apart?

And if it was #3, was it a sneak preview of what other clubs were going to do to us in season 2019? Sixteen other clubs were watching.

That's why the game should have been reviewed, even if the club already thought it was #1 or #2. You have to know these things, not guess.

[Engorged Onion 10,223]

22 minutes ago, Mazer Rackham said:

Were we cooked physically?

Were we cooked mentally?

Or was it that, having beaten them at the same ground a month before, WCE put in some homework on us and worked out how to pick us apart?

And if it was #3, was it a sneak preview of what other clubs were going to do to us in season 2019? Sixteen other clubs were watching.

That's why the game should have been reviewed, even if the club already thought it was #1 or #2. You have to know these things, not guess.

All clubs, all the time, week in, week out -  are reviewing strategies to beat any other club... the oft trotted out line of, 'we will just focus on us', is well a smoke screen'.

The magnitude of the loss is important in so much as, that we can acknowledge throughout the season, the team put numerous clubs to the sword. If we kept losing matches by 4-6 goals week in week out, then clearly teams had worked us out/the system didnt work. However this was not the case.

I wonder what the conversation would have been if we lost by 5 goals... would we be unlucky, would we be tired, would the WCE have worked us out?

We got annihilated because we were exhausted. You don't lose matches by 11goals purely by strategy, its either a Neeld era team, or the players cant run to position.

AND then linking the belief that 'we was worked out in 2018 prelin'   to how we performed in 2019 is reductionist and simplistic. If the players haven't trained, and don't have the capacity to run out games, then in the modern era of aerobic fitness, the team is f'd.

[rjay 24,964]

8 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

AND then linking the belief that 'we was worked out in 2018 prelin'   to how we performed in 2019 is reductionist and simplistic. If the players haven't trained, and don't have the capacity to run out games, then in the modern era of aerobic fitness, the team is f'd.

It's just as simplistic as saying we were tired/cooked.

There were a multitude of reasons for that loss and the ensuing 2019 season.

[Engorged Onion 10,223]

30 minutes ago, rjay said:

It's just as simplistic as saying we were tired/cooked.

There were a multitude of reasons for that loss and the ensuing 2019 season.

I agree @rjay. I thought about adding a caveat of course.

I think everyone who posts here, who leans towards that being tired/cooked was a significant part of the 2019 season also acknowledge that it wasnt the only reason, whether it is posted within a post or not. I'll try to be clearer next time.

From a weighting perspective, where I put ownership of why the 2019 season played out the way it did

Strategy          Injury/Rehab      Personnel  

15%                      65%                   20%       

 

STRATEGY *disappointed with how the i50's went in, as well as the inablity to keep it in - and I still see that linked in to the injury/rehab component, however tweaks need to be made

PERSONNEL*I am all for players who play their role , who are not superstars and I am very accepting of errors, there are a range of players who I do not think will be part of a premiership winning team, this would unfortunately include J.Hunt, O Mac and a few others, whom I have been 'willing' to kick on, but I believe will be superseded due to inconsistency. AND these players played more than they would have based on who couldnt get on the park.

 

Edited December 9, 2019 by Engorged Onion

[HBDee 369]

We really should try and let go of the past season. For whatever reason it happened, learn from it, new (ish) list, new coaches (apart from Goody), a lot more on the track for more work, lets look forward to next season, support our boys and see what happens!

[binman 43,131]

7 hours ago, Mazer Rackham said:

Were we cooked physically?

Were we cooked mentally?

Or was it that, having beaten them at the same ground a month before, WCE put in some homework on us and worked out how to pick us apart?

And if it was #3, was it a sneak preview of what other clubs were going to do to us in season 2019? Sixteen other clubs were watching.

That's why the game should have been reviewed, even if the club already thought it was #1 or #2. You have to know these things, not guess.

Not sure if this is one your comedic posts or not

[binman 43,131]

8 hours ago, rjay said:

We didn't have the list, he knew it & has expressed similar in more private surrounds as has been reported here.

It's why we recruited May...but he was only part of the story.

This trade/draft period we were able to fill more gaps.

No club has a perfect & complete list but ours is much closer now.

No he didn't. Unsurprising given where we were at that point in our development phase.

And most of the players he did have at his disposal were babies in AFL terms.

And we came up against a side laden with experience and talent, who finished top 4, were coming off a week's break, playing on tjeir home deck and who went on to win the flag. 

Being cooked didn't help, and we played very poorly. And the result could not have been more deflating. But we also shouldn't lose sight of the fact that we were beaten by a much better team.

My main point about that game is that I disagree with the oft floated belief on dl that our game plan was exposed. For whatever reason we simply could not execute it.

The hawks tried the same approach as wc did  - stretch the ground and maintain possession. expose our defensive running and lack of leg speed. And failed - despite us not playing that well.

Those who hold the belief our game plan was exposed by wc will have to get used to seeing that very same game plan (though with some tweaks no doubt) employed next season.

[rjay 24,964]

7 minutes ago, binman said:

My main point about that game is that I disagree with the oft floated belief on dl that our game plan was exposed. For whatever reason we simply could not execute it.

 

...and my main point has been that we didn't have the list.

The game plan is well and good but we need the list to execute it.

I think we may well have it now, we didn't in 2018 and came unstuck against good teams.

2019 with the injury problems just made it worse.

If we had of changed the game plan would things have been different?

I doubt it although there were some things in 2019 that should have been addressed sooner.

[binman 43,131]

8 minutes ago, rjay said:

...and my main point has been that we didn't have the list.

The game plan is well and good but we need the list to execute it.

I think we may well have it now, we didn't in 2018 and came unstuck against good teams.

2019 with the injury problems just made it worse.

If we had of changed the game plan would things have been different?

I doubt it although there were some things in 2019 that should have been addressed sooner.

I agree we didn't have the list.

That said we over achieved in 2018 and came within touching distance of a flag.

But goody's first two years were all about embedding his game style, making it second nature and part of the teams dna the way Richmond have done.

In 2019 they started the same way but by mid season had significantly modified their game style.

As I posted a few days ago I'm not sure that wasn't a mistake. But I think they did so for pragmatic reasons,  primarily to avoid huge losses (which by in large we did).

With a solid preseason and 90% of the list getting more than 80% of sessions completed and a full list to choose from we will return to goody's preferred model.

 

[rjay 24,964]

7 minutes ago, binman said:

With a solid preseason and 90% of the list getting more than 80% of sessions completed and a full list to choose from we will return to goody's preferred model.

I think we will see more of 2018 but with a list capable of seeing it through.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

1 hour ago, binman said:

Not sure if this is one your comedic posts or not

Ha! ha! this is definitely one of yours

 

I am not apportioning blame or reasons. I am saying that our coaches should have reviewed that PF, regardless of their gut reaction, in order to learn as much as they possibly could from it. Such an effort might have had a mitigating effect on 2019 where even our non-injured and non-ill prepared players routinely ran around as if they were Izzy Folau playing his first praccy match for GWS.