On 19/11/2019 at 08:56, Deebacle said:

No but considering you must think we are, you might be able to explain the possible Jackson Draft with Gawn and Preuss.

Pretty easy. Jackson is an 18 year old kid who won't be impacting in the ruck for a number of years. Gawn has 4-5 years tops, by which stage Jackson will be 22-23. Preuss is an ok first ruck but hardly a star.

The recruiters seem to think Jackson can play forward too. That means he can contribute early in an area we lack (KPF), while he develops his ruck craft under Max.

  On 19/11/2019 at 08:56, Deebacle said:

No but considering you must think we are, you might be able to explain the possible Jackson Draft with Gawn and Preuss.

Not saying we should take Jackson, but Gawn and Pruess are irrelevant in the decision. If he makes the grade, Jackson probably won't be much chop til he's 22-24. A week is a long time in football; half a decade is an eternity. 

On topic, Green looks the goods. More of what we have, but you can't turn down class when available. Wouldn't be disappointed if we bid.

  On 19/11/2019 at 08:53, WERRIDEE said:

Bidding on Green is a must. GWS mustn't get everything 

Making your own side worse to prevent GWS - who have never won a flag - getting better. Sound strategy that one.

Besides 'everything' for GWS might not be another big body midfielder, it might be a gun ruck who can compliment their already elite midfield.

I'm not a fan of stats, but Champion Data has Green as number 2 (Rowell 1, Anderson 3, Jackson 4). Some are saying that he would be number 1 if he wasn't in NSW. It would be an amazing turn of events if GWS didn't match the bid. Who's to say the bid won't come from GC (though I understand the strategy of Rowell and Anderson being mates)

If we bid on Green at 3 and GWS don't match, I won't be crying

  On 19/11/2019 at 09:40, DeeSpencer said:

Making your own side worse to prevent GWS - who have never won a flag - getting better. Sound strategy that one.

Besides 'everything' for GWS might not be another big body midfielder, it might be a gun ruck who can compliment their already elite midfield.

How could getting Green be making our side worse? 

  On 19/11/2019 at 08:56, Deebacle said:

No but considering you must think we are, you might be able to explain the possible Jackson Draft with Gawn and Preuss.

He plays as a forward and allows us to play Max as an attacking weapon in the ruck rotating forward. 

Or he’s just the best player available. If you’ve got two gun ruckmen then you can make it work as a weapon, especially if one is as mobile as Jackson. West Coast were equal top when Naitanui did his knee near the end of 2018, and won the flag with a two ruck combo. 

Or do you think we shouldn’t draft the best player available because he’s not a half back flanker?

  On 19/11/2019 at 09:08, Good Lord George said:

Pretty easy. Jackson is an 18 year old kid who won't be impacting in the ruck for a number of years. Gawn has 4-5 years tops, by which stage Jackson will be 22-23. Preuss is an ok first ruck but hardly a star.

The recruiters seem to think Jackson can play forward too. That means he can contribute early in an area we lack (KPF), while he develops his ruck craft under Max.

Jackson is no forward. No footy smarts. 

IF TOM GREEN IS AVAILABLE AT PICK 3 (which he will) THEN DEES MUST NOMINATE HIM. Cripps like player.  Definitely a future star.  If the Giants want him, they will have to pay top dollar !!

  On 19/11/2019 at 10:36, spirit of norm smith said:

Jackson is no forward. No footy smarts. 

How would you know this? How much have you watched him play as a forward?

  On 19/11/2019 at 04:59, Nascent said:

Interesting thought. Have a gentleman's agreement to not bid on Green to allow them to have two top 5 players on the proviso they trade us a player on the cheap next year. I like it, surely they have a surplus of mids if they take Green as well.

Nothing short of clearing Kelly for nothing.

  On 19/11/2019 at 10:08, 4_Kent_Watts said:

How could getting Green be making our side worse? 

If in the recruiters opinion he’s not as good as Jackson then by comparison our side is worse. 

We should focus on doing what’s best for us to beat 16 other teams. If we lose a knockout final to a dominant GWS team then so be it, that’s better than where we are right now. 

Green is a must. If you want to use the Cripps analogy, and you had have put Cripps, a gun mid, into the GWS side last game, they would have seriously shaken the "big tree in the sky"

We’d have to be super certain in Jackson to not pick Green if he’s available.

I’ve seen this script many times before, and it’s rarely turned out particularly well. For us, at least.

I really hope we don’t balls this up.

 

  On 19/11/2019 at 09:40, DeeSpencer said:

Making your own side worse to prevent GWS - who have never won a flag - getting better. Sound strategy that one.

Besides 'everything' for GWS might not be another big body midfielder, it might be a gun ruck who can compliment their already elite midfield.

Why will our side be worse with Green in it? One of the best kids in the draft.

  On 19/11/2019 at 11:05, willmoy said:

Green is a must. If you want to use the Cripps analogy, and you had have put Cripps, a gun mid, into the GWS side last game, they would have seriously shaken the "big tree in the sky"

Very good player Cripps. Clearance machine, best in the league. Averaged 8.4 a game last year.

But at the Giants:
Hopper 6.2
Taranto 5.3
Coniglio 5.1
Kelly 4.6
Greene 3.7
De Boer 3.5
Mumford 3.5
Whitfield 3.3

Compared with the Blues:
Cripps 8.4
Kreuzer 5.5
Ed Curnow 4.7
Sam Walsh 3.4
Marc Murphy 3.4

There's one player on that GWS list who's old and about to retire and every other player is either in their prime or still young and improving. Hopper finally got inside midfield time and was a top 10 clearance mid in the game when given the chance, he could go up a level again if he keeps getting more centre square time.

The only other older guy is Cal Ward who's coming back after missing the whole year and of course Coniglio's coming in as well. 

The Giants aren't thinking they really need the next Cripps. They know they are absolutely loaded with mids. They want a 2 for 1 deal but what they would really like is Jackson or Young.

 

I hope we go for Green. He looks the safest pick in this year's draft. And he's a good size to be able to go forward and be dangerous.

  On 19/11/2019 at 11:29, WERRIDEE said:

Why will our side be worse with Green in it? One of the best kids in the draft.

I'd answered this above but the best thing for us is to take the best kid that we identify and let the Giants be the Giants. Our job isn't to take a slightly lesser kid just to thwart them.

  On 10/10/2019 at 09:56, spirit of norm smith said:

We would definitely nominate him.  He will be a Cripps like midfielder. Scary given talent at Giants already. 

I’d nominate him to annoy Giants and make them use max points to match it.  

Gold Coast nominating him would be more interesting!

  On 19/11/2019 at 10:51, Axis of Bob said:

How would you know this? How much have you watched him play as a forward?

He hasn't.

Started playing ruckman then resting key forward later towards the year at Colts level and by all reports really drove his bargain up even more due to some of his potential he showed when playing up forward.

I know @Pennant St Dee has a good eye for talent up the West. Were you able to see him live down at Colts level?

  On 19/11/2019 at 10:51, Axis of Bob said:

How would you know this? How much have you watched him play as a forward?

Exactly. Jackson has not played as a forward.  It’s about position and leading and competitive marking. Jackson has not shown this so why suddenly in the AFL?? Ridiculous 

  On 19/11/2019 at 11:58, spirit of norm smith said:

Exactly. Jackson has not played as a forward.  It’s about position and leading and competitive marking. Jackson has not shown this so why suddenly in the AFL?? Ridiculous 

Yes he has .... Taylor specifically spoke about it in the podcast. He watched him play after the championships where he was very impressive as a forward who still got the ball 20+ times a game. 

You’ve never even seen him even play in the position. In fact you didn’t even know that he had played the position! So how can you say that he “is no forward. No footy smarts”? You cannot.

 

Didn’t play forward against carnival against Vic country or against Vic metro.

 Kicked how many goals?? ZERO. or points ?? ZERO or marks within 50??? One.     IN 4 GAMES. 

  On 19/11/2019 at 11:39, DeeSpencer said:

Very good player Cripps. Clearance machine, best in the league. Averaged 8.4 a game last year.

But at the Giants:
Hopper 6.2
Taranto 5.3
Coniglio 5.1
Kelly 4.6
Greene 3.7
De Boer 3.5
Mumford 3.5
Whitfield 3.3

Compared with the Blues:
Cripps 8.4
Kreuzer 5.5
Ed Curnow 4.7
Sam Walsh 3.4
Marc Murphy 3.4

There's one player on that GWS list who's old and about to retire and every other player is either in their prime or still young and improving. Hopper finally got inside midfield time and was a top 10 clearance mid in the game when given the chance, he could go up a level again if he keeps getting more centre square time.

The only other older guy is Cal Ward who's coming back after missing the whole year and of course Coniglio's coming in as well. 

The Giants aren't thinking they really need the next Cripps. They know they are absolutely loaded with mids. They want a 2 for 1 deal but what they would really like is Jackson or Young.

 

You are right DS, these stats are indisputable. Harder at it were Richmond, fitter, smarter and better coached. Would Cripps have dragged two on ballers and made it easier for creation type play. I don't know. Creativity and hardness don't usually gel. But could a Cripps ie a Green be the whole Martin package.

  On 19/11/2019 at 12:25, spirit of norm smith said:

Didn’t play forward against carnival against Vic country or against Vic metro.

 Kicked how many goals?? ZERO. or points ?? ZERO or marks within 50??? One.     IN 4 GAMES. 

Ha ha ha! You’ve really leant in to the ignorance, haven’t you.  

Although it’s obvious, and you clearly know this and are trying to bluff your way out of this pit, I will mention that he has played other games of football other than these four games specifically. I know this because Jason Taylor specifically talked about the thing that you claim never to have happened. 

Anyway, enjoy the draft.

Tom Green should be nominated at 3.  He is a Cripps like player. We cannot allow Giants a free swing. Make them pay maximum points if they want him.  

If they don’t match, I’d happily bring him into a red and blue jumper.