Farewell Sam Frost

[TheoX 1,222]

5 hours ago, A F said:

Hypothetical: if it was Frost for Isaac Smith, would you do the deal? 

IMO, in a heartbeat.

No way. 31 this year. The end comes quickly, he's already way past his best.

[Moonshadow 17,675]

2 hours ago, TheoX said:

No way. 31 this year. The end comes quickly, he's already way past his best.

Smith has at least one good year left, possibly 2. Could have tough incentives for 3rd

He started late at AFL level, 23 I believe.

2 years of outside polish and goal kicking? Yeah, nah.... we don't need that.

Shaun Higgins is 31 too.

[Lucifers Hero 39,503]

"... North Melbourne has inquired about his services..."

trade-news-rumours-whispers

No mention of Hawks so appear to no longer be interested?

If so, we may not get as good a pick as we might have with some competition for him.

Edited September 15, 2019 by Lucifer's Hero

[Young Blood 2,574]

16 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

"... North Melbourne has inquired about his services..."

trade-news-rumours-whispers

No mention of Hawks so appear to no longer be interested?

If so, we may not get as good a pick as we might have with some competition for him.

Yeah no mention of Hawks so he must be going to North.

[picket fence 17,032]

On 9/14/2019 at 3:22 PM, Laughing Goat said:

I agree....mate

But you need to come up with something better than that.....Frost has an average of 2.7 turnovers per game & the following players have a higher average for the 2019 season......

Hibberd 5, Brayshaw 5, Oliver 4.7, Lever 4.1, Salem, Jones & Viney 4 

Scarey I know but my question still stands......who replaces Frosty with his obvious pace & lock down ability? He provides spark, excitement & quick ball movement, something that all of the above players struggle with.

Oscar of course...... man!!!!

Just cannot believe it if Frost goes 

Edited September 16, 2019 by picket fence

[Young Blood 2,574]

It's really not the end of the world if we lose Frost.

- He might be asking for just too much than we're willing or able to pay him

- He's a turnover king and while other aspects of his game have improved I can't see his composure or decision making getting that much better

- We have Petty who I think will eventually become a much more well rounded key back

- There's still a chance we're looking at other backs from other clubs like Alex Keath

[binman 42,592]

41 minutes ago, Yung Blood said:

Yeah no mention of Hawks so he must be going to North.

Hawks cooled on Frost.

[John Crow Batty 8,860]

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

"... North Melbourne has inquired about his services..."

trade-news-rumours-whispers

No mention of Hawks so appear to no longer be interested?

If so, we may not get as good a pick as we might have with some competition for him.

Now that Rawlings has defected, its not surprising they would be interested in our players that have an upside with a bullet but not secured. Inside info.

Edited September 16, 2019 by america de cali

[binman 42,592]

17 minutes ago, america de cali said:

Now that Rawlings has defected, its not surprising they would be interested in our players that have an upside with a bullet but not secured. Inside info.

You really think Frost has an upside with a bullet?

He may have some incremental improvement left (eg he might improve his kicking a bit) but he has well and truly reached his ceiling 

Inside info? He's 26 or some such and has been in the system for 7-8 years. Its not as if he has been hiding under a bushell. 

[hemingway 7,615]

13 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

Smith has at least one good year left, possibly 2. Could have tough incentives for 3rd

He started late at AFL level, 23 I believe.

2 years of outside polish and goal kicking? Yeah, nah.... we don't need that.

Shaun Higgins is 31 too.

Smith has a few years left. And his body is good.

He has great leadership qualities and is a very good outside or link player. I think he would be great at Melbourne as he has the qualities that we need. He may be past his best but he is still head and shoulders above many in our best 22. 

However, comments in the Hawks camp suggest that he was interested in a trade but now his preference is to remain at the Hawks. Perhaps influenced by lack of offers or unfavourable contract terms on offer but also a reluctance to move so late in  his career and leave his mates.  The desire to be a one club player still resonates with some players.   

 

[Red and Blue realist 2,051]

20 minutes ago, hemingway said:

Smith has a few years left. And his body is good.

He has great leadership qualities and is a very good outside or link player. I think he would be great at Melbourne as he has the qualities that we need. He may be past his best but he is still head and shoulders above many in our best 22. 

However, comments in the Hawks camp suggest that he was interested in a trade but now his preference is to remain at the Hawks. Perhaps influenced by lack of offers or unfavourable contract terms on offer but also a reluctance to move so late in  his career and leave his mates.  The desire to be a one club player still resonates with some players.   

 

Don't think Smith has quiet the aura that Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis or Silk have, hence his paycheck might not be as padded out or the option of coaching after retirement might not have been discussed as much as he wanted. Therefore those associating a straight swap with Frost can probably rule it out. .

[hemingway 7,615]

9 minutes ago, Red and Blue realist said:

Don't think Smith has quiet the aura that Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis or Silk have, hence his paycheck might not be as padded out or the option of coaching after retirement might not have been discussed as much as he wanted. Therefore those associating a straight swap with Frost can probably rule it out. .

Agreed. Also comments suggested that if Smith was to move then Carlton was a preferred option but that did not happen. I'm told that Smith was not interested in the Demons as a destination. 

[Lucifers Hero 39,503]

32 minutes ago, hemingway said:

Agreed. Also comments suggested that if Smith was to move then Carlton was a preferred option but that did not happen. I'm told that Smith was not interested in the Demons as a destination. 

Lewis probably told him to stay away!

Seriously, any idea why he was not interested?

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,325]

We’re all aware of Frost’s pro’s and cons, I really hope we keep him. 

Edited September 16, 2019 by Bombay Airconditioning

[hemingway 7,615]

35 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Lewis probably told him to stay away!

Seriously, any idea why he was not interested?

I do not know.

One would think that our poor season and the negative perception of the club would not attract an experienced player who is looking at joining a successful team. After years of playing for one of the power clubs with a culture of success, the Dees don't stack up well. You have to have a very good reason to leave the Hawks. 

[Mach5 4,767]

3 hours ago, america de cali said:

Now that Rawlings has defected, its not surprising they would be interested in our players that have an upside with a bullet but not secured. Inside info.

 

 No, he has inside information on who we are willing to let leave, so they know they’re not wasting their time on him.

 

[Moonshadow 17,675]

6 hours ago, picket fence said:

Oscar of course...... man!!!!

Just cannot believe it if Frost goes 

Simplistic view, picket.

Would you keep him if his price was $500k per annum? What about $600? What if he said min 4 or 5 years? 

We punters just don't know what he has asked for.

For all we know, the so-called 'low ball' offer talk might be coming from his manager, and we know how trustworthy they are.

Frost is exciting to watch when he goes for a dash or chases down an opponent. But the reality is (and the stats posted here show) that he has some pretty glaring limitations. 

I hope we don't get suckered into offering a contract beyond his actual worth, because I believe his trade value will peak this year. 

[picket fence 17,032]

2 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

Simplistic view, picket.

Would you keep him if his price was $500k per annum? What about $600? What if he said min 4 or 5 years? 

We punters just don't know what he has asked for.

For all we know, the so-called 'low ball' offer talk might be coming from his manager, and we know how trustworthy they are.

Frost is exciting to watch when he goes for a dash or chases down an opponent. But the reality is (and the stats posted here show) that he has some pretty glaring limitations. 

I hope we don't get suckered into offering a contract beyond his actual worth, because I believe his trade value will peak this year. 

Yes I take your point .. Hnmm Yeah but I do see so much upside!!

If May and Lever don"t come up to expectations and with Hibberd and possibly Jetta slowing down we would be extremely limited in defence. I have NO faith in Oscar at all.

I say a keeper for mine!

[Dr. Gonzo 24,129]

7 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Lewis probably told him to stay away!

Seriously, any idea why he was not interested?

The Hawks players think our club is a joke.

[Moonshadow 17,675]

8 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Yes I take your point .. Hnmm Yeah but I do see so much upside!!

If May and Lever don"t come up to expectations and with Hibberd and possibly Jetta slowing down we would be extremely limited in defence. I have NO faith in Oscar at all.

I say a keeper for mine!

Ok, so we all agree that in a perfect world we'd keep Frost. 

Tell me what contract amount and time would be the limit you'd put in place. How much and for how many years in the world of picket fence?

Maximum $400k pa for 4 years?

Edited September 16, 2019 by Moonshadow

[Demons11 6,906]

3 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Yes I take your point .. Hnmm Yeah but I do see so much upside!!

If May and Lever don"t come up to expectations and with Hibberd and possibly Jetta slowing down we would be extremely limited in defence. I have NO faith in Oscar at all.

I say a keeper for mine!

I see your point but you have to remember that Petty should be better again next year and Tomlinson will add to the defence if needed. 

If Frost has currency and it allows us to get in additional pick and free up some cap space, then I think they entertain this.

I think Frost improved immensely this year but his disposal is a liability.  

[picket fence 17,032]

I would offer him 450 with incentives and any way you cut it 450 for 3 to four years makes him a Millionare with the rest of his life to do something else!! Pretty good Coin I would have thought. Us normal wage earners would LOVE a $ 100.000 Windfall just once in a lifetime.

Makes you think doesn't it??

Id pay him about that Plus incentives!

[Moonshadow 17,675]

Footballer's pay and your average punter's pay are never valid comparisons. 

So $450k + for 4 years.

Sheeittttt!!!

[ICU2 Jerry Jerry 257]

Frost should have been used as a winger in 2020. Elite speed and taking the game on, with the added bonus of being a good down the line bail out option . . . It's not like we need speed outside or anything . . . We don't know how to use our weapons and frost could be a genuine threat wing and pushing forward

Absolutely our loss and more so when you see how he'll end uo being used elsewhere 

[Red and Blue realist 2,051]

12 minutes ago, ICU2 Jerry Jerry said:

Frost should have been used as a winger in 2020. Elite speed and taking the game on, with the added bonus of being a good down the line bail out option . . . It's not like we need speed outside or anything . . . We don't know how to use our weapons and frost could be a genuine threat wing and pushing forward

Absolutely our loss and more so when you see how he'll end uo being used elsewhere 

Wingers have to have more than just speed, they have to read the play very well so their in the right position to either create an outlet from defense, create the play going forward or block space to make the ball movement harder for the opposition. unfortunately while Frost has great pace, he's probably the worst in the league at reading the play, so he'd make a horrible wingman. He's played best as a 1 on 1 defender because he has someone besides him leading him to the ball. 

I'm guessing the Hawks inquired then looked at how he would fit in with the way they run their defenses and cooled off, while he's much more suited to the North style. That's why I also think we won't be giving him big money, May, Lever, Jetta and Hibberd work best in a zone defense, but you need to know how to read the play to make that work well.