9 minutes ago, TGR said:

Whether or not we low-balled him, the club and many demonlanders thought he was expendable.

We could potentially do very well out of a Frost trade this off-season. 

If we could land a second rounder somehow with a swap of picks, we'd be laughing. 

 

7 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

We could potentially do very well out of a Frost trade this off-season. 

If we could land a second rounder somehow with a swap of picks, we'd be laughing. 

 

I wont be.  A slow list recruits Lewis and gets rid of Frost.  Says it all.

This draft is weak too come 2nd round I hear.  

14 minutes ago, TGR said:

I wont be.  A slow list recruits Lewis and gets rid of Frost.  Says it all.

This draft is weak too come 2nd round I hear.  

Too many slow players  in the 2nd round?

13 minutes ago, TGR said:

I wont be.  A slow list recruits Lewis and gets rid of Frost.  Says it all.

This draft is weak too come 2nd round I hear.  

Frost was a rookie pick due to his glaringly obvious weaknesses as a footballer. Not because he was injured in his draft year or some other excuse. 

We made a prelim last year and had the same foot speed as this year. Tell me how that works? 

Also, the bloke who won a brownlow last night was a second round pick in a draft that wasn't considered a super draft. 

You take talent upgrades where possible and back your club to develop. We haven't had a crack at top end talent for a couple of years now and if someone were to offer a second round pick for Frost, I'd jump at it. 

Also gives us the ammunition to on- trade for something else or bundle up to move higher up the draft. 

Frost is so overrated by certain posters, it's unbelievable. 

 

 

4 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Frost was a rookie pick due to his glaringly obvious weaknesses as a footballer. Not because he was injured in his draft year or some other excuse. 

We made a prelim last year and had the same foot speed as this year. Tell me how that works? 

Also, the bloke who won a brownlow last night was a second round pick in a draft that wasn't considered a super draft. 

You take talent upgrades where possible and back your club to develop. We haven't had a crack at top end talent for a couple of years now and if someone were to offer a second round pick for Frost, I'd jump at it. 

Also gives us the ammunition to on- trade for something else or bundle up to move higher up the draft. 

Frost is so overrated by certain posters, it's unbelievable. 

 

 

Sam Frost was #1 rookie pick. Overlooked at draft because he was injured during the draft year. 

Its a joke that we need more pace but would give up probably our fastest player.  He shutdown Key forwards all year. Did you see round 23? Destroyed Ben Brown.  

5 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Sam Frost was #1 rookie pick. Overlooked at draft because he was injured during the draft year. 

Its a joke that we need more pace but would give up probably our fastest player.  He shutdown Key forwards all year. Did you see round 23? Destroyed Ben Brown.  

He was injured in the TAC Cup Grand Final.  It wasn't as if he spent most of his draft year on the sidelines and got overlooked because of it.  He was predicted to go higher than he was selected, but there was clearly more to it than just an injury at the end of the season.

I'm still on the fence with Frost and, if he does depart, I'll judge it based on what else we do during the trade period.  These things should never really be looked at in isolation.

 

10 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Sam Frost was #1 rookie pick. Overlooked at draft because he was injured during the draft year. 

Its a joke that we need more pace but would give up probably our fastest player.  He shutdown Key forwards all year. Did you see round 23? Destroyed Ben Brown.  

As Wiseblood stated, you're incorrect. 

Let's just disagree. 

It's hard to argue with someone who doesn't rate Jack Martin but believes that Sam Frost shut down key forwards all year..

50 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

 

We made a prelim last year and had the same foot speed as this year. Tell me how that works? 

 

 

 

You didn’t review the prelim either?

 

St Kilda smashed us last year on the vast spaces of the G.  StK were the quickest back half to front half side in 2018 if I remember Richo’s comment early this year.

Our finals wins were against the two slowest sides in the comp circa 2018.

Then you have the league attempts to reduce congestion and numbers back; culminating in 666.

 

MFC has a slow list.  What’s worse is that our slow ‘quick’ players are lightweights that ain’t lightening.  Stretch, Spargo, Garlett (ageing), Wagner.

 

We are in dire straights but you and many others think we will flick the switch back to 2018.  Maybe we will...Prelim time.

 

36 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

As Wiseblood stated, you're incorrect. 

Let's just disagree. 

It's hard to argue with someone who doesn't rate Jack Martin but believes that Sam Frost shut down key forwards all year..

You don't think he did a good job on arguably the best KF going around in Buddy WB?  One of our few wins for the year.

Pretty sure he curtailed a few other decent ones also.  I don't see anyone else with his closing speed and height down back for us knocking the door down.

Hope you're not relying on O-Mac as back up for Frosty like a few others here?

7 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

You don't think he did a good job on arguably the best KF going around in Buddy WB?  One of our few wins for the year.

Pretty sure he curtailed a few other decent ones also.  I don't see anyone else with his closing speed and height down back for us knocking the door down.

Hope you're not relying on O-Mac as back up for Frosty like a few others here?

With Frosty, you take the good with the bad.  His strengths have been mentioned here many times, while his deficiencies have also been highlighted many times.

The way I see it, with a fit list, is he a best 22 player?  How many teams play three key forwards in their line up? 

I see him as on the periphery of our best 22 and, thus, I don't think it would hurt us too much to lose him if we got something decent in return.  What else we do around that will give us an indication of how we can view a deal for Frost if it eventuates.

For what it is worth I  believe Sam Frost still has a lot of development in him and is a keeper. At Wesley he was gun basketball who played in the footy team showed some run and gun and then had the football coach and basketball coaching fighting over him. He has come to football late and it is up to MFC to further develop him. Areas for improvement are kicking and decision making but he is not on his own in this area at the club. Player development is not something our club is noted for and it is about time it improved.

Many posters here believe that he would develop at Hawthorn or North, well I want MFC to show they can develop him better. May can play full back, lever the back pocket intercept marking and Frost at CHB.

40 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

With Frosty, you take the good with the bad.  His strengths have been mentioned here many times, while his deficiencies have also been highlighted many times.

The way I see it, with a fit list, is he a best 22 player?  How many teams play three key forwards in their line up? 

I see him as on the periphery of our best 22 and, thus, I don't think it would hurt us too much to lose him if we got something decent in return.  What else we do around that will give us an indication of how we can view a deal for Frost if it eventuates.

Whatever i say is only one opinion from an amateur observer WB.

Weighted average stats vs all defender peers, which include a significant negative factor for turnovers for all, show he was our best defender for the season.  Also well inside our best 22 ranked 11th, up a massive 19 places on his finish last season.  Statistically our biggest improver for the year by a country mile..up 26% on 2018.  And that, in a year where most where absolutely shizen in comparison.  Imagine IF he was playing in a team that was going just "Ok" this season, let alone 2018 levels.

Whilst that result was in a year of horribilis performance by many, we would need to see a miraculous turnaround by a stack of players, and a number of ordinary ones, to see him pushed outside or on the cusp of 22 if he maintains this year's output into 2020.  And what if he maintains this year's output and reduces the amount of turnovers significantly in 2020?  He takes another leap yet again.  Of course anythings possible, especially if his performance drops off next season (if he's still with us of course).

Just needs to be one KF that is pretty quick on the lead WB.  I can only refer back to one of the greatest lead up forwards of recent times in Rooey who stated that out of all defenders he had seen of late, Frosty was the last one he would want to play on due to his closing speed (ie., effective defense on a quick player such as Nick relies very much on athleticism and speed.

Edited September 24, 20195 yr by Rusty Nails

4 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

Whatever i say is only one opinion from an amateur observer WB.

Weighted average stats vs all defender peers, which include a significant negative factor for turnovers for all, show he was our best defender for the season.  Also well inside our best 22 ranked 11th, up a massive 19 places on his finish last season.

This was in a backline that missed May, Lever and Jetta for large chunks of the season.

This improvement in the table you put in is good, but take a look at the players he passed.  Many of those players also missed large parts of the season through injury - McDonald, Melksham, Hannan, Jetta etc.  There are others below him who were either first year players, young kids or those not good enough for AFL level (JKH, Stretch, J. Wagner etc.)

Again, I'll state that I'm not totally in the either camp in terms of keeping him or allowing him to leave, but I will agree that he improved this season.  Can that improvement outweigh his deficiencies?  I'm not sure.  But if he does leave, I won't lose too much sleep over it.

15 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

This was in a backline that missed May, Lever and Jetta for large chunks of the season.

This improvement in the table you put in is good, but take a look at the players he passed.  Many of those players also missed large parts of the season through injury - McDonald, Melksham, Hannan, Jetta etc.  There are others below him who were either first year players, young kids or those not good enough for AFL level (JKH, Stretch, J. Wagner etc.)

Again, I'll state that I'm not totally in the either camp in terms of keeping him or allowing him to leave, but I will agree that he improved this season.  Can that improvement outweigh his deficiencies?  I'm not sure.  But if he does leave, I won't lose too much sleep over it.

Based on averages WB so the results are all relative regardless of the number of games played or not via injury etc.  I also get some might be impacted after coming back from injury or not being able to complete a full pre-season and might take three to four matches to find their AFL fitness / conditioning but if they're on the park and they play the match out we have to assume the FD is pretty confident that they are capable of contributing at a reasonable level.

Personally i would not like to lose our quickest player off HB without a direct replacement that can match or better him.  We will get easily picked off by the likes of a Cameron, Lynch, Brown and Buddy (if still doing the rounds and fit).  Imagine if a few key talls go down and we have to bring in O-Mac to match up on one of the above!  Better yet....let's not, just hang on to Frosty!

Edited September 24, 20195 yr by Rusty Nails

2 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Sam Frost was #1 rookie pick. Overlooked at draft because he was injured during the draft year. 

Its a joke that we need more pace but would give up probably our fastest player.  He shutdown Key forwards all year. Did you see round 23? Destroyed Ben Brown.  

These two things don't really go together. We need more spread and pace through the midfield and we need to get speedy little forwards, plus a zippy back flanker and we'll need that whether we have Frost or don't have Frost.

I'd gladly trade Hunt and Frost - our fastest 2 players - for a couple of speedy flanker/mid types that bring the speed to the positions that matter.

Yes closing speed is important for defenders and yes Frost's big runs can occasionally pay off nicely but more often than not he's not bringing the speed that we really need.

Our midfield were terribly unfit this year and ANB is our fittest player but almost no one on here is pumping up ANB for his elite fitness making him a vital player. Everyone rightfully thinks our midfield should get fitter!

2 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Sam Frost was #1 rookie pick. Overlooked at draft because he was injured during the draft year. 

Its a joke that we need more pace but would give up probably our fastest player.  He shutdown Key forwards all year. Did you see round 23? Destroyed Ben Brown.  

We need more mids and wingers with pace. Not defenders. 

Snap. Just read the post above.

Edited September 24, 20195 yr by binman

On 9/20/2019 at 12:40 PM, Redleg said:

Not worried about skill and talent?

You are at the same time advocating to keep Frost, Red. Skill is not something I'd immediately attribute to Frosty.

It a proven fact players on the demons list  are 20% slower then any other list, just a myth plenty of speed on the list, usain bolt would look slow with the high amount of turnovers, good ball movement by foot and by  hand is far more important.

 

5 hours ago, don't make me angry said:

It a proven fact players on the demons list  are 20% slower then any other list, just a myth plenty of speed on the list, usain bolt would look slow with the high amount of turnovers, good ball movement by foot and by  hand is far more important.

 

Why do you post the same bull [censored] on different threads? Do you think the more you post it the more truth to it?

FMD 

A must keep for mine... A must!

8 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

Why do you post the same bull [censored] on different threads? Do you think the more you post it the more truth to it?

FMD 

A bit like yourself, so your telling me pace is more important then hitting targets, the hawks won a 3 flags on hitting targets by. foot not speed, u can never say they had lots of foot speed

7 minutes ago, don't make me angry said:

A bit like yourself, so your telling me pace is more important then hitting targets, the hawks won a 3 flags on hitting targets by. foot not speed, u can never say they had lots of foot speed

They also had very smart players, who were footballers, not athletes. SO their reaction times, positioning, etc. was all quicker than the opposition. That's a problem with frost, his decision making means he is slow on the field to react, but give him a guy to chase over a longer distance and he wins. I like his point of difference, but i hate when he is lose or drops an easy mark.

I remember during the season Frosty had a good game and Goodwin was asked to comment on the “Frostball!” Phenomena and shook his head with laughter and said no one knows where it’s gonna end up... they then interviewed Frosty himself and he too laughed and said likewise...

To my mind Goodwin and the team took ”Frostball” over no movement, but would prefer skilled, predictable and creative exits from our backline, but with Level, May and Jets out, Frost was our best option. But not preferred, or even desirable.

 

Edited September 25, 20195 yr by PaulRB

23 hours ago, TGR said:

I wont be.  A slow list recruits Lewis and gets rid of Frost.  Says it all.

This draft is weak too come 2nd round I hear.  

You continually impress me with your ingenuity (and absolute bloody mindedness) in including a derogatory remark about Lewis and/or his trade - no matter what the topic - in almost all of your posts (or at least the ones I happen to stumble across).

As that trade fades more into the distance (already three years ago, mind you), I’m just wondering who your new whipping boy(s) for the next few years will be. Ah wait, Lever or Preuss?

Peter Ryan mentioned on Twitter he thought Frosty was unlikely to re-sign