22 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Watch how Young kicks the ball to Wareham.  That won Vic country the game v WA.  So your point is that Young’s elite kicking is essential 

Notwithstanding that VC didnt win the game...I don't mean any single moment, as great as that kick was.  If moments are your go, Regan Clarke from WA is who we should draft, as he kicked WAs winning goal (after Jackson tumbled it to him). 

When I say watch the game, I mean the full game. Then decide who played the greatest role in helping the winning team win. Then watch other Vic Country games (perhaps the ones that they won), and determine how big a role Young plays in those wins. I have done this and my opinion is that he is not a particularly influential player. A nice player, who could 100% be a good cog of a premiership winning team and an elite level HBF, but not a difference maker. 

At a pick like 3, I'm looking for a difference maker; the guy who consistently puts the team on his back and wills them to win, or at least someone who has shown a propensity for it more than once. 

From watching all the U18 championship games, there is a small group of players who do this most consistently: Rowell, Green and Robertson. Anderson can do it by all accounts, but did not in the games I watched. Flanders likewise, though I am flat out not a fan of his based on what I have seen.

There is another group of players who made a difference in those games less consistently, but still helped their team to win or go close to winning: Kemp, Weightman, Jackson, Henry, and even less consistently, Pickett and McAsey. 

For what it's worth, the game in question was won by the work of Deven Robertson, Liam Henry and to some extent, Jackson. 

45 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Watch how Young kicks the ball to Wareham.  That won Vic country the game v WA.  So your point is that Young’s elite kicking is essential 

For someone that claims to watch a few games here and there you seem to get some easy facts wrong.

WA won the game..

There were also bigger significant factors that had bigger influence on the game then just that 'one kick' yourself and the same joe blow's that continueto harp on about it on here.

I look at Luke Jackson critical hitouts to Robertson and his WA mids deep into the last qtr that really got them going and eventually over the line to take home the championships title.

1 hour ago, A F said:

Ball use is overrated. I don't know how many times I've posted this now but people continually seem to think being an elite kick will solve problems. It's all about work rate and being able to work to space to make targets easier. Salem is a beautiful kick but it hasn't made him an A grader. 

Sorry AF I suspect you are being very selective.

If you consider ball use as overrated then Melbourne would put together a greater number of cohesive efforts with the ball if our skill at this part of the game was higher.

Its common to all Dees fans of our average disposal and cohesion (especially last year).

Using the negative view about Young's skills snd downgrading ball use is convenient to not want him as a top 10 Draft choice.

Of course it's not everything but Hawthorn won a trio of flags with exquisite disposal and top sides invariably contain elite ball users.

Melbourne need a young talent like Young and just as much a small forward such as Weightman Henry or Pickett.

Also a key forward which it seems Jackson is the man Also happens to ruck a bit too.

Mist of the young top15 are very skilled of course no players is complete but one skill does not mean the player should be overlooked if they are elite in it snd gsvr other strings to their bows.

BTW who would you choose for our first 2 picks and why?

 

1 hour ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Watch how Young kicks the ball to Wareham.  That won Vic country the game v WA.  So your point is that Young’s elite kicking is essential 

I gotta say I start to wonder if you really were at these games? That's a pretty fundamental fact you're missing.

1 hour ago, 58er said:

Sorry AF I suspect you are being very selective.

If you consider ball use as overrated then Melbourne would put together a greater number of cohesive efforts with the ball if our skill at this part of the game was higher.

Its common to all Dees fans of our average disposal and cohesion (especially last year).

Using the negative view about Young's skills snd downgrading ball use is convenient to not want him as a top 10 Draft choice.

Of course it's not everything but Hawthorn won a trio of flags with exquisite disposal and top sides invariably contain elite ball users.

Melbourne need a young talent like Young and just as much a small forward such as Weightman Henry or Pickett.

Also a key forward which it seems Jackson is the man Also happens to ruck a bit too.

Mist of the young top15 are very skilled of course no players is complete but one skill does not mean the player should be overlooked if they are elite in it snd gsvr other strings to their bows.

BTW who would you choose for our first 2 picks and why?

 

I think we're talking cross purpose or misunderstanding each other here mate. Melbourne couldn't put plays together in 2019 because our fitness was puss. Flashback to 2018, with a higher fitness base, and we were seeing very regular end to end team plays. Our skills also looked a lot better.

I'm a layman so there's not much use in my selections, but I'd love Green at 3 and Kemp at 10, but am excited by the prospect of Jackson too. What about you?

Edited November 23, 20195 yr by A F

5 hours ago, Beetle said:

Vic country didn't win the game. WA took it straight down the other end and kicked a goal.

And who won a ground ball clearance fed off and got the ball quickly on his non preferred straight to a teammate inside 50m

Mongrel off the boot but awareness of getting the ball forward as quickly as possible 

5 hours ago, Mach5 said:

So? Ever considered that you’re placing too much value on his kicking ability?

Yes, he looks to be a very good kick. Is it really that valuable?

I think the issue is making sure the majority of your side, if not all, are at least good kicks; not to use early picks on a great kick as if that one player will completely change your side’s ability.

Considering that all I've been doing is assessing his kick, then no I don't think I'm placing too much value on his ability to kick. 

I've barely advocated selecting him and have joked all along about my limited awareness of draftees. 

There should also be enough signposts to convey that I've been satirically engaging in overblown hype. 

I think you're lobbying the wrong person Mach5. An email to Taylor may be more productive. 

Your last point is a good one. I also think Young's kicking is the greatest ever in the history of the AFL. 

Talking about that game. Young Jackson was very dominant in the ruck, impressive follow up work and played a huge role in the result. 

he's a bit like Dean Cox. he basically gives you an extra midfielder. 

4 minutes ago, Dr evil said:

Talking about that game. Young Jackson was very dominant in the ruck, impressive follow up work and played a huge role in the result. 

he's a bit like Dean Cox. he basically gives you an extra midfielder. 

I don't know about that comparison, Dean Cox was a great kick. Jackson might be an adequate kick but I am doubtful he will ever get close to Cox with his kicking.

I do agree about the extra midfielder part though.

2 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

I don't know about that comparison, Dean Cox was a great kick. Jackson might be an adequate kick but I am doubtful he will ever get close to Cox with his kicking.

I do agree about the extra midfielder part though.

Max isn't a great kick, players can learn to work within their limitations. though i'm not sure Jackson is as bad as is being made out. 

7 minutes ago, Dr evil said:

Max isn't a great kick, players can learn to work within their limitations. though i'm not sure Jackson is as bad as is being made out. 

It's more about how good of a kick that Dean Cox was. He would be the best kick in our current team.

On 11/21/2019 at 2:38 PM, dazzledavey36 said:

He's nothing like Elliot Yeo. 

Both topped the agility test. I thing that's where the comparison is coming from.

2 hours ago, Watts the matter said:

It's more about how good of a kick that Dean Cox was. He would be the best kick in our current team.

Umm Christian Salem says no.

I have had my heart set on the Demons taking Hayden Young for a few weeks now.

 

I understand the "hype" around Luke Jackson. However, I think the go home factor risk is far too high. I don't want a repeat of a Jesse Hogan situation.  I hope that Jason Taylor takes that into account when choosing who to pick at number 3# in the 2019 AFL National Draft.

 

Hayden Young's elite kicking and decision making is far too valuable to ignore.

 

Here's a reminder for those who need further convincing.

 

 

Ripping right foot pass at the start of that package.   

8 hours ago, Watts the matter said:

It's more about how good of a kick that Dean Cox was. He would be the best kick in our current team.

Dean Cox was a terrible kick when he was first taken and debuted.

He took a while to work on his kicking 

Not so much that he is a good kick but Young makes good decisions quickly and executes.

We won't be taking Young, and I think people may be surprised by where he potentially ends up being picked.

 

5 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

We won't be taking Young, and I think people may be surprised by where he potentially ends up being picked.

 

I wonder why he is sliding.   I have seen him picked top 3 or 4 all year and now might slide to between 8-10.  Serong looks like the other one who is sliding.

1 minute ago, Demons11 said:

I wonder why he is sliding.   I have seen him picked top 3 or 4 all year and now might slide to between 8-10.  Serong looks like the other one who is sliding.

Just things I've heard, and I'm just a mug punter so don't take it as gospel, but there's apparently some knocks on the physical side of his game. Exceptionally skilled of course, which may seem him still valued highly, but potentially could slide.

On 11/23/2019 at 3:44 PM, A F said:

I think we're talking cross purpose or misunderstanding each other here mate. Melbourne couldn't put plays together in 2019 because our fitness was puss. Flashback to 2018, with a higher fitness base, and we were seeing very regular end to end team plays. Our skills also looked a lot better.

I'm a layman so there's not much use in my selections, but I'd love Green at 3 and Kemp at 10, but am excited by the prospect of Jackson too. What about you?

AF  my preference at 3 is Jackson/Green and No 10 any of the mids left or Kent OR Kozzie or Weightman. 

Realize have given multiple choices but that is how I believe the draft will go.

Lets celebrate the new young Demons (inc no 28) after it all as they start a career to contribute and be a part of what we all hope ends our 55 year flag drought being broken in 2020 or very soon after!!

22 minutes ago, Demons11 said:

I wonder why he is sliding.   I have seen him picked top 3 or 4 all year and now might slide to between 8-10.  Serong looks like the other one who is sliding.

 

Like I’ve said for a while now, pick 3 is a lot for half back flanker whose best asset is a very good kick.

38 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Just things I've heard, and I'm just a mug punter so don't take it as gospel, but there's apparently some knocks on the physical side of his game. Exceptionally skilled of course, which may seem him still valued highly, but potentially could slide.

When I watched him towards the back end of the year playing for Dandenong, he was playing around the wing. His kicking really is a delight to watch, but certainly his body work on being a midfielder needed work.

He is a talented player and will be a gun half back in years to come. But these days you can pluck half back flanker from anywhere and they can come in a make a sudden impact.

The likes of Marty Hore, Luke Ryan, Tom Stewart and Michael Hibbered are just example of HBF who are late picks who can come in and play the role straight away. So really using pick 3 on a HBF probably isn't really that necessary. 

This is why the Luke Jackson recruit makes sense. Rarely do you get blokes in the Brody Grundy and Nic Naitanui class that come right at your door step. Jackson is one of those rare breeds who'll be a very very good AFL player when he hits his prime.

Edited November 25, 20195 yr by dazzledavey36

20 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

When I watched him towards the back end of the year playing for Dandenong, he was playing around the wing. His kicking really is a delight to watch, but certainly his body work on being a midfielder needed work.

He is a talented player and will be a gun half back in years to come. But these days you can pluck half back flanker from anywhere and they can come in a make a sudden impact.

The likes of Marty Hore, Luke Ryan, Tom Stewart and Michael Hibbered are just example of HBF who are late picks who can come in and play the role straight away. So really using pick 3 on a HBF probably isn't really that necessary. 

This is why the Luke Jackson recruit makes sense. Rarely do you get blokes in the Brody Grundy and Nic Naitanui class that come right at your door step. Jackson is one of those rare breeds who'll be a very very good AFL player when he hits his prime.

Thanks mate, really appreciate your insights from watching/being involved with juniors.

31 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Just things I've heard, and I'm just a mug punter so don't take it as gospel, but there's apparently some knocks on the physical side of his game. Exceptionally skilled of course, which may seem him still valued highly, but potentially could slide.

 

12 minutes ago, Mach5 said:

Like I’ve said for a while now, pick 3 is a lot for half back flanker whose best asset is a very good kick.

These were a few of the quotes I patched together from earlier draft reports, which also noted a bit of mongrel and his desire to tackle. "Has explosive speed",  "is a damaging half-back with great intercept marking." ‘"Explosiveness from packs", "Disciplined, checking his opponents tightly and providing them with few opportunities."

Sure, a phenomenal kick (Knightmare says the best in a draft prospect outside of Lukosius last year), but it's not like he's lacking in other areas. Also topped the agility test and has leadership qualities. Have no idea where this notion that he's not physically developed comes from - watching the highlights and he constantly backs into packs (maybe one-on-one, he's easily pushed off the ball?) 

I don't think you can say he's just an everyday back-flanker, a la Marty Hore. Has potential upside in other areas, and looks a better prospect than Lever - who we picked up for around the same or more. A couple of weeks ago Young seemed a lock for 3 - so the sliding since smells a bit fishy to me. I get the talking up of Jackson, but not the fresh knocks on Young.