5 minutes ago, Skin Deeamond said:

To what end? 

Would you like to destroy May’s self confidence?

He’s one of our players now!

If he pulls his head in all will be fine.  I used his own errors as an example of how counter-productive berating a teammate can be.

If it was Jones instead of Frost do you think the same pro-May argument exists in the same form?  I don't.

6 minutes ago, Macca said:

I don't think so nifty ... 'group-think' rules on the internet.  So most who have a minority view are not often apt to speak up.

You reckon this thread is a good sample size?  I don't.  i see it as a chance for most to just vent away.  Pound of flesh just happens to be the current whipping boy - Frost.

Besides all that,  I'm seen here as too outspoken so I very rarely, if ever,  get any support.

Which suits me perfectly.  Don't need it,  never have. 

Not sure what you're playing the victim about matey, but pretty much completely disagree with everything you've just said.

Frost isn't a whipping boy at all, this is in no way a thread for indictment of him, it's about assessing the tense few moments between Frost and May. One is an erratic, developing, talented defender who borders on cult figure status with us Dees fans, the other is a highly rated defender and former captain who oozes leadership, if our players opinions on that matter at all, (and I assure you, they matter more than ours). There is no slight on Frost, and I for one love that we finally have a directional leader out there as none of the current official ones playing seem to be any good at that at all.

 

Edited July 2, 20195 yr by Lord Nev

Just now, Lord Nev said:

Frost isn't a whipping boy at all, this is in no way a thread for indictment of him, it's about assessing the tense few moments between Frost and May. One is an erratic, developing, talented defender who borders on cult figure status with us Dees fans, the other is a highly rated defender and former captain who oozes leadership if our players opinions on that matter at all (and I assure you, they matter more than ours). There is no slight on Frost, and I for one love that we finally have a directional leader out there and none of the current official ones playing seem to be any good at that at all.

 

Are you serious?  Frost cops it no end.  Much like Oscar.  He's not a great player but so what!  We don't have an endless supply of ready made replacements so errors are going to occur from the lesser-lights

So a better player and a more senior player in May kicking the ball directly to an opposition player should attract more criticism.  But it didn't so there's your answer.  Group-think at work again. 

And I acknowledge that May can play but that isn't what this discussion is about. 

May overstepped the mark and needs to adhere to team rules like any other player. 

2 minutes ago, Macca said:

Are you serious?  Frost cops it no end.  Much like Oscar.  He's not a great player but so what!  We don't have an endless supply of ready made replacements so errors are going to occur from the lesser-lights

So a better player and a more senior player in May kicking the ball directly to an opposition player should attract more criticism.  But it didn't so there's your answer.  Group-think at work again. 

And I acknowledge that May can play but that isn't what this discussion is about. 

May overstepped the mark and needs to adhere to team rules like any other player. 

Gonna have to agree to disagree mate, we've seen the situation completely differently.

I'm rapt to have a leader willing to instruct and put success before being 'one of the boys', makes it seem like we have a chance to finally change that culture that's held our club back for so long.

Cheers and go Dees!

 

12 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Gonna have to agree to disagree mate, we've seen the situation completely differently.

I'm rapt to have a leader willing to instruct and put success before being 'one of the boys', makes it seem like we have a chance to finally change that culture that's held our club back for so long.

Cheers and go Dees!

Yes ... happy to agree to disagree.

Building a great culture is possibly harder than building a great list.  It's a long slow process.

Respect is the big key ... mutual respect.  All done out of view of the public.  Airing dirty laundry is counter-productive.

Neeld came flying in weilding a big stick and talking tough.  Massive fail eventuated.  So it's tricky.

May can play but he still has a lot to prove ... and if he can become a difference-maker on and off the field I'll be the first to acknowledge that.

Still got to do it.

Edited July 2, 20195 yr by Macca

On 6/30/2019 at 9:55 PM, stevethemanjordan said:

Seriously, I'm embarrassed to be a Melbourne supporter if there are posters that think this is a bad look. 

Good God. 

Jonathon Brown, whose opinion I respect, said it went on far too long and he didn’t like it. 

On 7/1/2019 at 1:32 PM, Hell Bent said:

Heath Shaw on multiple occasions, BJ Goddard every game he ever played 

Well, those two are hardly good endorsements of positive behaviour.  Shaw, a bogan Rat Pack member disliked by Buckley who pushed him out to improve culture and Goddard, another disliked teammate at two Clubs who would sulk and throw the lollies all over the change rooms at teammates errors. No, I’m afraid we’re going to need much better examples of genuinely champion players to convince me.  

Not errors, clear breaches in team rules.  One happens, the other needs correction.  Good on May for doing it.

13 hours ago, Macca said:

If he pulls his head in all will be fine.  I used his own errors as an example of how counter-productive berating a teammate can be.

If it was Jones instead of Frost do you think the same pro-May argument exists in the same form?  I don't.

You appear to be confusing errors and breaking team rules. All players make errors, some more than others. I don't think berating a player for an error is ok. But breaking team rules is different, and what if May had a quiet word with Frost earlier and he went and broke the same team rule again? I am not talking about a skill error I'm talking about breaking team rules.I think May is doing his job to remind a player if they have broken team rules. Frost didn't want to hear it and May let him know.

Edited July 2, 20195 yr by ManDee
Removed paraphrasing assumption.

34 minutes ago, ManDee said:

You appear to be confusing errors and breaking team rules. All players make errors, some more than others. I don't think berating a player for an error is ok. But breaking team rules is different, and what if May had a quiet word with Frost earlier and he went and broke the same team rule again? I am not talking about a skill error I'm talking about breaking team rules.I think May is doing his job to remind a player if they have broken team rules. Frost didn't want to hear it and May let him know.

Every player breaks team rules,  same as they all make errors.  May himself broke a team rule by berating a player rhe way he did.

Frost went up to spoil when he had other options yeah?  How many times do we see that happen?  Constantly I'd say

Short passing in the backline traditionally was against team rules and that's what May did in the first half.  Causing a direct turnover

By the way,  that is the 6th time I have made mention of that horrible May clanger yet no one else here wants to talk about it.

I know what I saw and May was out of line. Are you happy for him to do it again next Sunday (in the same way for a prolonged period)

Genuine question and I'd appreciate an answer. You quoted me so now it's my turn.  I'll ask you again and again if I have to.

Edited July 2, 20195 yr by Macca

May left GCS to play finals with mfc and hopefully a premiership.  Atm both teams are a long way off finals let alone a flag.

The ultimate irony for him will be MFC sharing the cellar with them this year and then watch on if GCS rise above us in the next few years. 

 

30 minutes ago, Macca said:

Every player breaks team rules,  same as they all make errors.  May himself broke a team rule by berating a player rhe way he did.  -------Assumption

Frost went up to spoil when he had other options yeah?  How many times do we see that happen?  Constantly I'd say -----Point being?

Short passing in the backline traditionally was against team rules and that's what May did in the first half.  Causing a direct turnover -------Assumption, do you know the team rules?

By the way,  that is the 6th time I have made mention of that horrible May clanger yet no one else here wants to talk about it. ----- A clanger is not the same as breaking team rules

I know what I saw and May was out of line. Are you happy for him to do it again next Sunday (in the same way for a prolonged period)  -----If a player deserves it yes, am I happy that a player deserves a spray ? No

Genuine question and I'd appreciate an answer. You quoted me so now it's my turn.  I'll ask you again and again if I have to.----What?

Thought it easier to put my answers in red in your post.

Edited July 3, 20195 yr by ManDee

30 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

May left GCS to play finals with mfc and hopefully a premiership.  Atm both teams are a long way off finals let alone a flag.

The ultimate irony for him will be MFC sharing the cellar with them this year and then watch on if GCS rise above us in the next few years. 

 

You can be very cruel Luci !!

2 minutes ago, ManDee said:

Thought it easier to put my answers in red in your post.

We couldn't be further apart on this issue.

Let's agree to disagree.

1 minute ago, Macca said:

We couldn't be further apart on this issue.

Let's agree to disagree.

Happy to agree that you don't know the team rules, and that you don't know the difference between making an error and breaking team rules.

Frost has earned his place and has been much more reliable this year than May. May is yet to prove his value and has not been around long enough to be telling others what they should do. May did not have the professionalism to turn up fit and ready to play. I don't think May will have much of a career and it will be shorter if he continues to enforce himself at the top of a pecking order by belittling teammates.

 

14 hours ago, Macca said:

I don't think so nifty ... 'group-think' rules on the internet.  So most who have a minority view are not often apt to speak up.

You reckon this thread is a good sample size?  I don't.  i see it as a chance for most to just vent away.  Pound of flesh just happens to be the current whipping boy - Frost

You bring this out frequently, Macca.

Just because you hold a minority view does not mean the majority view is "group think", nor that you are right.

Just on the topic of Frost being a whipping boy, whilst traditionally that has been the case on Demonland I reckon the past few months have seen the most positive commentary on here around Frost I've ever seen. And I think that's deserved, as I think this year has been his best for us and he has improved his game in a few key ways.

4 minutes ago, Mental Demons said:

May is yet to prove his value and has not been around long enough to be telling others what they should do.

May - 27 years old, 127 games, club captain, under 18 All-Australian.

Frost - 25 years old, 83 games.

Reckon May is close to the perfect person to be telling other defenders what to do actually. Who would you rather instructing him? Petty?

 

7 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

You bring this out frequently, Macca.

Just because you hold a minority view does not mean the majority view is "group think", nor that you are right.

Just on the topic of Frost being a whipping boy, whilst traditionally that has been the case on Demonland I reckon the past few months have seen the most positive commentary on here around Frost I've ever seen. And I think that's deserved, as I think this year has been his best for us and he has improved his game in a few key ways.

Group-think does happen but the mob is often right whilst many minority views are wrong. And vice-versa.

As for Frost ... the undue criticism has died down but the residual effect lingers.  In my opinion.

Now you may disagree with my opinion but I say 'Vive la Difference'

19 hours ago, Macca said:

And there you go again with the scapegoating

It is now the fault of Jones & Viney.  Weeks ago ir was Goidwin and prior to that it was all Cameron Schwab's fault.

The reasons why we're 4 & 10 are many.  It isn't one thing and never would be one thing

And if you had more experience in these matters you'd know that.

Oh give it a rest ...

how many tackles were laid last weekend?

Lack of Leadership is where we are

 

21 hours ago, Macca said:

I'm not denying that Frost didn't make an error but so did every other player during the game (including May) They are called clangers. Should May have run down the field and berated T-Mac for dropping an easy mark? 

You can't have players berating other players during the game - it's not on.

And May continued on for what seened like an eternity . . Frost had every right right to tell May to shove it and that's what he possibly did

Who the hell does May think he is anyway?

In the aftemath Frost mentioned that it is 'All gpod' but he's just smoothing over the waters.

As I said,  any error that May now makes should therefore be highlighted. 

So go to it folks

You'd want to pacify a player (May) that plays like a beast that isn't afraid of anyone? At a club (our club) who haven't had anyone so fearless and impassioned before in my short memory?

6 minutes ago, red&blue1982 said:

You'd want to pacify a player (May) that plays like a beast that isn't afraid of anyone? At a club (our club) who haven't had anyone so fearless and impassioned before in my short memory?

Cale Morton 

17 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Oh give it a rest ...

how many tackles were laid last weekend?

Lack of Leadership is where we are

 

How about you give it a rest ... you take repeating yourself to new heights.  And hypocrisy and misery.  Even when we win you can often only find fault.

Edited July 3, 20195 yr by Macca

10 minutes ago, red&blue1982 said:

You'd want to pacify a player (May) that plays like a beast that isn't afraid of anyone? At a club (our club) who haven't had anyone so fearless and impassioned before in my short memory?

No I just want him to behave himself.  There's a difference.

This reminds me of Nazi Germany and Hitler . Thank you Mr Godwin.