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2 minutes ago, Macca said:

No I just want him to behave himself.  There's a difference.

You've got a right to have your opinion of course; but so do May and Frost, and they have to work together and build a relationship. They need space. To squelch any passion from our players right now seems totally regressive.

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8 minutes ago, red&blue1982 said:

You've got a right to have your opinion of course; but so do May and Frost, and they have to work together and build a relationship. They need space. To squelch any passion from our players right now seems totally regressive.

I just don't like seeing players being berated by their teammates.  It's counter-productive in my opinion.

If you don't have a problem with what May did that's fine. With these sorts of debates on these sorts of issues many have a strong,  firm view (either way)

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And I don't have an agenda with May either although I do believe he has now brought unnecessary attention onto himself.

Both Leigh Matthews & Jono Brown mentioned that the berating went on for far too long so it's not just a few supporters here.

I actually stuck up for May against many here over that whole 'drinking session' story.  I thought he was being unfairly treated in that instance (more so the perception) although the leadership group did call him out over the incident.  Still don't believe it was a 'session' though.  Just a couple of beers is what I gleaned from it all.  Harmless.

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, ManDee said:

Happy to agree that you don't know the team rules, and that you don't know the difference between making an error and breaking team rules.

No ... you see it your way and I see it my way.

I watch the game closely and there are numerous occasions where a player breaks team rules ... runs to the wrong spots,  fails to lay a tackle,  doesn't run back,  jogging instead of sprinting,  doesn't shepherd,  unecessarily berating a teammate,  not playing in front,  going up for a spoil instead of staying down (although in the heat of the moment an 'error' of judgement can occur with regards to a spoil) etc etc etc

As for the errors ... missed marks,  poor decision making,  errant kicks,  poor conversion rates etc etc

So I know the difference ... it seems that you don't.  And I'm hoping that the news surrounding May in the future is all positive.  Whether that happens or not is anyone's guess. 

So far we've seen him called out by the coach for rolling up in an unfit fashion to pre-season,  get suspended,  get called out by the leadership group for drinking whilst in rehab and now this.

He's on big money and we gave up a top-end draft pick for him so a lot is expected.  So far,  I'm underwhelmed with his output.

And if you're happy with all that,  fine.

Edited by Macca

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You do not know the team rules. 

So if you don't know the team rules how could you know the difference between braking them and an error in all circumstances? You cannot.

I have made no claim to knowing team rules, but I can spot an error. Like a missed kick, dropped mark, poor handball these are errors and we all make them. 

Is punching the ball in a marking contest into the corridor against team rules in defence? Possibly. If you stuff it up that's an error, if you keep doing it probably not. 

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4 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

May - 27 years old, 127 games, club captain, under 18 All-Australian.

Frost - 25 years old, 83 games.

Reckon May is close to the perfect person to be telling other defenders what to do actually. Who would you rather instructing him? Petty?

 

What a stupid response. You seem impressed by May getting stuck into a team mate, this attitude did not win games for the Suns.  Although Petty has played  as many MFC games as May, like May he has not established himself as a consistent player. Neither should be losing their temper at a more established player. Suns were pleased to get rid of May because he is not good leadership material. May's attitude sucks and he should let his footy do the talking. May seems lazy and keen to blame others for his deficiencies and has already been unprofessional by turning up unfit to play. 

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I just figured out who the new prominent poster is ... ha! 

An unmistakable style - should have picked it from the word go. 

And has 'Who' disappeared again.  Gets outed then no more?

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2 hours ago, Mental Demons said:

What a stupid response. You seem impressed by May getting stuck into a team mate, this attitude did not win games for the Suns.  Although Petty has played  as many MFC games as May, like May he has not established himself as a consistent player. Neither should be losing their temper at a more established player. Suns were pleased to get rid of May because he is not good leadership material. May's attitude sucks and he should let his footy do the talking. May seems lazy and keen to blame others for his deficiencies and has already been unprofessional by turning up unfit to play. 

Calm down and play the ball mate.

Let's discuss your points:

"You seem impressed by May getting stuck into a team mate" - I'm never "impressed" when this kind of thing has to happen, but I'm glad we finally have a leader not willing to just cruise through games/his career and actually wants to win. Nathan Jones has described May as one of the best directors of play he has ever played with.

"this attitude did not win games for the Suns" - This is a facetious comment surely? You don't think development, coaching, resources, culture and more had anything to do with the Suns lack of success? You're blaming it all on May's "attitude"? Gee wiz.

"like May he has not established himself as a consistent player" - Actually, through his 127 game career he has done just that. Frost has not.

"Suns were pleased to get rid of May because he is not good leadership material" - He was literally a captain of their club.

"May's attitude sucks" - What exactly is your source for this? Know him personally? Every single person from the club has praised his "attitude", are you saying they've all lied? Where is your proof?

"May seems lazy and keen to blame others for his deficiencies" - Again, where exactly is your proof of this? What deficiencies does he have and whom as he blamed for them?

My sources are the facts of his career and direct quotes from players and coaches of the club. What are yours?

 

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Posted (edited)
On 7/2/2019 at 11:37 AM, Macca said:

Read my post directly above

You lack consistsncy and experience Wyl ... love your passion but you are wrong in this instance

You have to be consistent with these sorts of things.  So be consistent

May therefore deserves a spray hinself if we are being consistent but where does is stop?

Put aside your anger about the clubs current fortunes and keep a cool head.

Macca, we have all kept "Cool Heads" for 55 odd years and where has it got us??

Nup what May did was exactly the shakeup this club needs. Too many of our players are too easily satisfied. They must be because how do you account for this very ordinary season. And you just cannot blame injuries!
Ok WHO has improved this year??? Clarry whilst his numbers are good has not lived up to his lofty figures last year. Viney has been avg, Ditto Tracc, T Mac has been very ordinary and where is Weeds improvement??? Nar its all between the ears with a lot of our list and whilst we wallow in mediocrity , I welcome Steven May and his passion Warts and all.Yep rocked up unfit, and yep had a few frothies but he Lives Breathes and Eats CLASS and passion! This is called LEADERSHIP!

So I'm Still in the make May Capt bandwagon !! Implicitly!

Oh one other thing. Sam Frost has been a "Revelation" this year. I love watching him play and love his Heart! Under Mays guidance he will become an even better player, of that I have no doubt!

Edited by picket fence
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20 hours ago, goodwindees said:

Well, those two are hardly good endorsements of positive behaviour.  Shaw, a bogan Rat Pack member disliked by Buckley who pushed him out to improve culture and Goddard, another disliked teammate at two Clubs who would sulk and throw the lollies all over the change rooms at teammates errors. No, I’m afraid we’re going to need much better examples of genuinely champion players to convince me.  

Gee I would love Heath Shaw at MFC CAN PLAY!

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8 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

May - 27 years old, 127 games, club captain, under 18 All-Australian.

Frost - 25 years old, 83 games.

Reckon May is close to the perfect person to be telling other defenders what to do actually. Who would you rather instructing him? Petty?

 

Um no I wouldn't take any advice from Petty at all coz,  He is a" Heartbreaker"!

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1 minute ago, picket fence said:

Um no I wouldn't take any advice from Petty at all coz,  He is a" Heartbreaker"!

At least we know he "Won't back down"....

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1 minute ago, Lord Nev said:

At least we know he "Won't back down"....

"Stop Draggin my heart around" Lord Nev, my heart is  under enough pressure as it is with this Footy Club!!

🙃

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1 hour ago, picket fence said:

Macca, we have all kept "Cool Heads" for 55 odd years and where has it got us??

Nup what May did was exactly the shakeup this club needs. Too many of our players are too easily satisfied. They must be because how do you account for this very ordinary season. And you just cannot blame injuries!
Ok WHO has improved this year??? Clarry whilst his numbers are good has not lived up to his lofty figures last year. Viney has been avg, Ditto Tracc, T Mac has been very ordinary and where is Weeds improvement??? Nar its all between the ears with a lot of our list and whilst we wallow in mediocrity , I welcome Steven May and his passion Warts and all.Yep rocked up unfit, and yep had a few frothies but he Lives Breathes and Eats CLASS and passion! This is called LEADERSHIP!

So I'm Still in the make May Capt bandwagon !! Implicitly!

Oh one other thing. Sam Frost has been a "Revelation" this year. I love watching him play and love his Heart! Under Mays guidance he will become an even better player, of that I have no doubt!

Well I was one of the few people here thinking that we could regress this season.  And I made mention of that more than a few times in the pre-season (on this site) My view was probably seen as pessimistic but I class myself as a realist.

So my expectations were tempered because my evaluation of the team going into this season was that we were slow,  had godawful skills (at times) and that we might strike a few injuries.  And the loss of Hogan was another big factor.  The whole premiership window talk seems nonsensical to me.

But I certainly did not believe we'd fall this far.  But I still want the team to get to 8 wins (at least) It was 10 wins a few weeks ago but those thoughts are gone.

We both see the same team and results Picket but my fix is different to yours.  And there is no definitive right or wrong answer too.  We just see things differently going forward.  No big deal.

With regards to Steven May,  we have to wait and see.  Quite literally.  Right now,  I don't really know what to expect.  The bloke can obviously play and as always,  I wish him all the best.  It's all up to him.  But he does not want to be in the news for the wrong reason (again)

And I am certainly not wedded to writing the bloke off despite my misgivings.  Far from it.

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10 hours ago, Macca said:

By the way,  that is the 6th time I have made mention of that horrible May clanger yet no one else here wants to talk about it.

Can remember it well - too well. The thought of it makes me shudder after the efforts we put in to get him, then wait for him, then see him almost easily penetrable in our zone of need. I presumed everyone else on DL could remember it as well. I hinted that it was  a part of the 'hypocrasy' of the summative comments he made to Frosty in that game. I will leave it at that point, Macca. Squeaky clean in play observations will have to wait ...

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, Deemania since 56 said:

Can remember it well - too well. The thought of it makes me shudder after the efforts we put in to get him, then wait for him, then see him almost easily penetrable in our zone of need. I presumed everyone else on DL could remember it as well. I hinted that it was  a part of the 'hypocrasy' of the summative comments he made to Frosty in that game. I will leave it at that point, Macca. Squeaky clean in play observations will have to wait ...

Barassi went hardest at his best players ... great coaches do that.  The lesser lights can't do the exceptional or perhaps even the basics so why bother lambasting them?  Pointless.

Replace them yes,  but until that happens you just have to put up with the mistakes.

The best players on the other hand have no such luxury.  Expectations are high and they just have to deliver.  No excuses.  That's why they get paid the big bucks.

So the amount of time here spent evaluating players who really aren't up to it surprises me.  They rarely ever get any better and the endless conversations about them seems futile to me.

It's why I always concentrate on the amount of good players the club has ... not enough of them and you can't win games and in my time supporting the club we've never had enough of them (good players) 

So I feel for Frost yet I have noticed that there hasn't been much empathy shown towards him on this thread. 

Which is why I believe there is still some residual angst that lingers.  He is not trusted but it's not his fault that his football talents are somewhat limited.  He's not a top player and that's it.  From my point of view Frost's output is easy to deal with.

Most players tend to reach their ceiling by the age of 22-24 but often it's at an earlier age. 

Edited by Macca
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Nobody bleeds or burns for the club more than Jones & Viney, nor deserves to lift silverware more BUT.........no I'm too scared here

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Posted (edited)
On 6/30/2019 at 10:18 PM, Jaded said:

Unforgivably poor, but hardly surprising. Good players, terrible bloody leaders. 

Oliver had to step in and separate them, which tells me two things: 

1. May was being too aggressive 

2. Oliver is a brave man stepping between May and Frost 

Oliver could be a very good leader at some point if he cleans his disposal up.  Heard him telling Garlo off in the Magoos one day, Garlo was doing a 'May' on another defender.  The difference between the two events was Garlo was the one having a very poor game and Clarry made sure he new it and told him to zip it and lift his game first! I had a good chuckle given Clarry was just a rookie at the time, albeit a damn good one.

Edited by Rusty Nails

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On 7/1/2019 at 1:01 AM, zeldacat said:

I would've liked Frost to turn to May and ask him where has he been since Rd 1 when we needed him fit and ready to play.

Touche' zeldacat

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Posted (edited)
On 7/2/2019 at 3:39 PM, Ugottobekidding said:

If lever comes back, id stick May down forward to kick a bag.

Tommy has a stint at Casey for Pruess....plays out of the square and relieves Maxy.  May to CHF!   Angry son of Neita!!

I like!!!   Does Goody have the gonads though!?  Roll the dice Goody...do it!!

:roos:

Edited by Rusty Nails
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16 hours ago, Lord Nev said:
16 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Let's discuss your points:

"You seem impressed by May getting stuck into a team mate" - I'm never "impressed" when this kind of thing has to happen, but I'm glad we finally have a leader not willing to just cruise through games/his career and actually wants to win. Nathan Jones has described May as one of the best directors of play he has ever played with.

"this attitude did not win games for the Suns" - This is a facetious comment surely? You don't think development, coaching, resources, culture and more had anything to do with the Suns lack of success? You're blaming it all on May's "attitude"? Gee wiz.

"like May he has not established himself as a consistent player" - Actually, through his 127 game career he has done just that. Frost has not.

"Suns were pleased to get rid of May because he is not good leadership material" - "

"May's attitude sucks" - What exactly is your source for this? Know him personally? Every single person from the club has praised his "attitude", are you saying they've all lied? Where is your proof?

"May seems lazy and keen to blame others for his deficiencies" - Again, where exactly is your proof of this? What deficiencies does he have and whom as he blamed for them?

"Nathan Jones has described May as one of the best directors of play he has ever played with." - Jones is all but past his use by date in an unsuccessful team and bagging team mates is not a help. May has not learned this. 

"You don't think development, coaching, resources, culture and more had anything to do with the Suns lack of success? You're blaming it all on May's "attitude"? Gee wiz." At no point did I say May was the only reason for the Suns failures, you made that up. He was not a help and I have heard that he was disliked by his team mates. The Suns back line has performed better without him.

"Actually, through his 127 game career he has done just that. Frost has not." He has never been consistent and has done nothing at MFC to be considered a leader or even proved to be a good player.

"He was literally a captain of their club." - and they were keen to let him go, not a vote of confidence from an unsuccessful team.

"Every single person from the club has praised his "attitude", are you saying they've all lied? Where is your proof?" Nobody wants to admit they made a bad decision getting rid of Hogan for May. They talk him up because they are stuck with it.

"Again, where exactly is your proof of this? What deficiencies does he have and whom as he blamed for them?" The proof is that he turned up unfit and has only played 3 games. What May has done at other clubs does not mean anything, he has to earn it at this club and he has not. Frost will play more games for MFC than May will. 

It is clear that you have little experience of how teams and clubs work and you read the game so badly it is not worth discussing it with you. Feel free to have your opinion but I do not value it.

.

 

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26 minutes ago, Mental Demons said:

 

Would have worked better as a sledge if you knew how to use the quote function

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17 minutes ago, Mental Demons said:

.... Nobody wants to admit they made a bad decision getting rid of Hogan for May. They talk him up because they are stuck with it.......

Because Hogan has proven to be such a great player for Fremantle? Note: Hogan and Jayden Hunt this year both have 1 goal 1 point  per game average. Hunt has played more games had more tackles, more inside 50's, better disposal efficiency, more metres gained and more intercepts than Hogan, and many people think Hunt should be dropped. What about Hogan compared to May? May has less games and averages more disposals, more tackles, better disposal efficiency, more 1%ers, more metres gained and more intercepts. May is a better leader (not hard) Hogan has potential to be a very good player, May is a very good player.

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13 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

Tommy has a stint at Casey for Pruess....plays out of the square and relieves Maxy.  May to CHF!   Angry son of Neita!!

I like!!!   Does Goody have the gonads though!?  Roll the dice Goody...do it!!

:roos:

I would do it in a heartbeat, but I am too radical. Answer then is No it wont happen!

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