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Simon Goodwin on SEN (26/6/19)

Demonland
in Melbourne Demons

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Guys ... Schwarz, Lyon, Neitz, Jakovich, Robbo, The Wiz, Jurrah!

It’s been so long between drinks ya’all have forgotten what it was like to have some truly magical forwards in an MFC 22. 

We cant be accepting this. “He’s getting to contests”, “Chasing and putting pressure on”, “Showing signs” ... Really? This is how far we have fallen in our expectations of key forward in his fourth season? 

Rise up ye Demon faithful. We deserve and need better!

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    The Weid-man was clearly more influential than his numbers suggest, that's obvious for anyone who watched the game.

    But it has to be said that Goody is rarely considered when making statements. He has a bit of a history at getting himself in a muddle or saying silly things.

    Whether it was earlier in the year when he said "there are no excuses" only to follow up by explaining that a number of players had "interrupted pre-seasons" or consistently spitting out the same carp in post-game pressers.

    I understand he probably feels a need to spin positives at every presser for the fans, players, sponsors etc, but if we're going to be brutally honest, the game against Freo wasn't an improvement. The very same problem exists due to personnel. Sure there were a handful of individuals who stepped their game up but we won't be getting close to Brisbane if we perform at the same level. 

    (Unless of course Brisbane manage two significant injuries to important players during the game).

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    7 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

    Guys ... Schwarz, Lyon, Neitz, Jakovich, Robbo, The Wiz, Jurrah!

    It’s been so long between drinks ya’all have forgotten what it was like to have some truly magical forwards in an MFC 22. 

    We cant be accepting this. “He’s getting to contests”, “Chasing and putting pressure on”, “Showing signs” ... Really? This is how far we have fallen in our expectations of key forward in his fourth season? 

    Rise up ye Demon faithful. We deserve and need better!

    And of the key forwards you refer to, most didn’t really hit their straps until they were c.23.

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    meh, i don't really care what he has to say. An average coach would've got us playing finals level football and yet we are a bottom 4 side this year. 

    Would love an explanation regarding structure/defensive breakdowns as well as why Fristch is being persisted with down back when we've lost about 5 games this year due to inaccurate kicking. Frustrating

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    7 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

    Would love an explanation regarding structure/defensive breakdowns as well as why Fristch is being persisted with down back when we've lost about 5 games this year due to inaccurate kicking. Frustrating

    Oath.

    It's these types of positional changes that he refuses to budge on and it worries me.

    Edited by stevethemanjordan

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    1 hour ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

    It clearly wasn't his best game this year but I'd like to see Sam's contest win-half-loss from Saturday. He only got the 2 contested marks but eye test during the game it felt like he was at least halving most contests he was involved in. I suspect as a young key forward that's what Goody was most impressed by. 

    Keeping in mind also that Clarry's goal and Tom's sealer both only came about thanks to contests Weids halved.

    This, the Clarry goal was a great piece of play and Weed's muptiple effort to spoil, follow up and hand off the Clarry was crucial. 

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    1 hour ago, demon3165 said:

    After watching the replay even Paul Roos was singing praises about the weeds game but then again what would he know..

    Lol, the same Paul Roos that was banging on about Jeremy Howe having the best 4 possession game or something along those lines?

    Weideman, continues to frustrate me with his inability to be any more than a one-trick pony. He had so many decent deliveries come his way, but he refused to make body contact prior to launching at the ball and is not quick enough to get separation, so it is so easy for a defender with a leap to defend him. There was no forward craft in his launch for the ball. Nearly all his marks at AFL seem to come when he is given a free run and jump at the ball, when he has someone on him he rarely marks the ball.

    Griffen Logue who was his opponent for a lot of the game, seemed to always read the ball better and showed significantly more agility.

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    23 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

    Guys ... Schwarz, Lyon, Neitz, Jakovich, Robbo, The Wiz, Jurrah!

    It’s been so long between drinks ya’all have forgotten what it was like to have some truly magical forwards in an MFC 22. 

    We cant be accepting this. “He’s getting to contests”, “Chasing and putting pressure on”, “Showing signs” ... Really? This is how far we have fallen in our expectations of key forward in his fourth season? 

    Rise up ye Demon faithful. We deserve and need better!

    Jakovich was 23 for his first game.

    Schwartz averaged less than a goal a game until he was 22

    Lyon averaged 1.1 per game until he was 25

    Jurrah first game at 21 career average 2.2

    Robertson 1 goal per game until he was 22

    and the Wiz was not a tall forward.

     

     

     

    Edited by ManDee
    Edit: All Sam Weideman's games have been played at under 22 years of age - Happy Birthday Sam

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    Too many on here fail to acknowledge the effect of continual number of unavailable players, causing constant chopping and changing of the lineup, which in turn continually makes the side unsettled. There always seems that AFL culture of you can't blame injuries. Well I can and I am.

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    2 minutes ago, loges said:

    Too many on here fail to acknowledge the effect of continual number of unavailable players, causing constant chopping and changing of the lineup, which in turn continually makes the side unsettled. There always seems that AFL culture of you can't blame injuries. Well I can and I am.

    Try telling a certain someone who was at training telling us all that no player would be underdone. 

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    24 minutes ago, ManDee said:

    Jakovich was 23 for his first game.

    Schwartz averaged less than a goal a game until he was 22

    Lyon averaged 1.1 per game until he was 25

    Jurrah first game at 21 career average 2.2

    Robertson 1 goal per game until he was 22

    and the Wiz was not a tall forward.

     

     

     

    Yes let’s compare the Weid to other players stats, when they just turned 22. 

    His game will improve

    Happy Birthday Sam, enjoy being young as it goes quickly. 

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    41 minutes ago, Gawn's Beard said:

    And of the key forwards you refer to, most didn’t really hit their straps until they were c.23.

    Sorry, but the record books say you're wrong.

     

    The Ox - 60 goals in second season. (20yo)

    Lyon - 41 goals in third season (21yo)

    Neitz - 56 goals in fourth season (22yo)

    Jakovich - 71 goals in 1st season (23yo)

    Robbo - 44 goals in 4th season (22yo)

    The Wiz - 37 goals in 2nd season (20yo)

    Jurrah - 40 goals in 3rd season (23yo)

     

    Yes I understand the game has changed. But not that much. All of those blokes named above were not only known for their aerial prowess but for their ability to make something out of nothing. Being tall, having a nice leap and good kicking technique are not enough at this level. Unless the reason you are there is to carry out a ruck/forward role you have to be able to convert your share of half chances and keep the scoreboard ticking over. You need to have some ability below your knees and not be voided from contests when the ball hits the deck. 

    Right now I do not see this in the Weid. Not enough tricks and magic in the kitbag. Chasing, pressuring, halving marking situations is not a pass mark going into your fourth season. Those attributes are a given. Until he can light up the forward 50 by making something out of nothing, he will not be the answer down there. Second highest number of inside 50's out of 18 clubs for Melbourne this season. Second highest! The ball has been pinging down there with great regularity. Enough ball for Weid to have had at least double the number of goals he's contributed so far in 2019.

    The idea that an AFL forward must receive silver service every week for 100 minutes or have an ironclad excuse for poor form is a myth many of you need to let go of.

    Kick goals or hit the bricks. 'Twas always that way for a forward plying his trade in this great game of ours … and always that it will be.

     

     

    Edited by Matsuo Basho

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    2 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

    Sorry, but the record books say you're wrong.

     

    The Ox - 60 goals in second season. (20yo)

    Lyon - 41 goals in third season (21yo)

    Neitz - 56 goals in fourth season (22yo)

    Jakovich - 71 goals in 1st season (23yo)

    Robbo - 44 goals in 4th season (22yo)

    The Wiz - 37 goals in 2nd season (20yo)

    Jurrah - 40 goals in 3rd season (23yo)

     

    Yes I understand the game has changed. But not that much. All of those blokes named above were not only known for their aerial prowess but for their ability to make something out of nothing. Being tall, having a nice leap and good kicking technique are not enough at this level. Unless the reason you are there is to carry out a ruck/forward role you have to be able to be able to convert your share of half chances and keep the scoreboard ticking over. You need to have some ability below your knees and not be voided from contests when the ball hits the deck. 

    Right now I do not see this in the Weid. Not enough tricks and magic in the kitbag. Chasing, pressuring, halving marking situations is not a pass mark going into your fourth season. Those attributes are a given. Until he can light up the area by making something out of nothing, he will not be the answer down there. Second highest number of inside 50's out of 18 clubs for Melbourne. The ball has been pinging down there. Enough ball to have at least double the number of goals he's contributed so far in 2019.

    The idea that an AFL forward must silver service every week for 100 minutes or have an ironclad excuse for poor form is a myth many of you need to let go of.

    Kick goals or hit the bricks. 'Twas always that way for a forward plying his trade in this great game of ours … and always that it will be.

     

     

    Sorry but you are wrong.

    Schwartz kicked 60 goals in 1994 he was born 1972

     

    Can't be bothered going further. Try footywire for stats

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    2 minutes ago, ManDee said:

    Sorry but you are wrong.

    Schwartz kicked 60 goals in 1994 he was born 1972

     

    Can't be bothered going further. Try footywire for stats

    He was 21

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    2 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

    He was 21

    https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pc-melbourne-demons--david-schwarz

    Schwartz born July 24 1972 our season in 1994 ended in September, now by my rough calculation by the time he kicked 60 goals he was 22 and what a superstar he was and could have been.

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    3 hours ago, Matsuo Basho said:

    I had the best 29 over par round the other day. Shoulda seen me. I was on fire ? 

    I can think of one thing you can do to improve that,

     

    heh.

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    1 hour ago, stevethemanjordan said:

    (Unless of course Brisbane manage two significant injuries to important players during the game).

    I get that those in-game injuries really helped us, but if Freo were good enough they still could've beaten us despite being 2 players down.

    Many clubs have won games with 2 men down -  as recently as round 12 when Sydney were down to one on the bench against West Coast.

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    16 minutes ago, Nasher said:

    Goodwin is either a liar or incompetent according to Mats.

    Liar? Strong word. He plays the game like everyone else in the industry. Incompetent? Don’t know yet. Let’s see his win/loss count at round 13, 2020.

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    12 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

    @Demonland

    Can this please not be a precedent.

    I re-posted those stats in direct response to ManDee who challenged my argument. I did not re-post my entire comment. 

    I take it from your objection you weren’t happy to read those numbers. Me either.

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    •  
    1 minute ago, Matsuo Basho said:

    I re-posted those stats in direct response to ManDee who challenged my argument. I did not re-post my entire comment. 

    I take it from your objection you weren’t happy to read those numbers. Me either.

    Look mate, I don't have any personal problems with you, and I even agree with you on the odd occasion, but this tendency to repeat things over and over again is really wrecking your impact and cred here in my view. Take it on board or don't, entirely up to you, I'm just some guy on the internet so doesn't really matter in the big scheme of things, but leaving a little space for others to contribute will make this site more enjoyable for everyone, maybe even you.

    Have a good one.

     

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    1 hour ago, Matsuo Basho said:

    Sorry, but the record books say you're wrong.

     

    The Ox - 60 goals in second season. (20yo)

    Lyon - 41 goals in third season (21yo)

    Neitz - 56 goals in fourth season (22yo)

    Jakovich - 71 goals in 1st season (23yo)

    Robbo - 44 goals in 4th season (22yo)

    The Wiz - 37 goals in 2nd season (20yo)

    Jurrah - 40 goals in 3rd season (23yo)

     

    Yes I understand the game has changed. But not that much. All of those blokes named above were not only known for their aerial prowess but for their ability to make something out of nothing. Being tall, having a nice leap and good kicking technique are not enough at this level. Unless the reason you are there is to carry out a ruck/forward role you have to be able to convert your share of half chances and keep the scoreboard ticking over. You need to have some ability below your knees and not be voided from contests when the ball hits the deck. 

    Right now I do not see this in the Weid. Not enough tricks and magic in the kitbag. Chasing, pressuring, halving marking situations is not a pass mark going into your fourth season. Those attributes are a given. Until he can light up the forward 50 by making something out of nothing, he will not be the answer down there. Second highest number of inside 50's out of 18 clubs for Melbourne this season. Second highest! The ball has been pinging down there with great regularity. Enough ball for Weid to have had at least double the number of goals he's contributed so far in 2019.

    The idea that an AFL forward must receive silver service every week for 100 minutes or have an ironclad excuse for poor form is a myth many of you need to let go of.

    Kick goals or hit the bricks. 'Twas always that way for a forward plying his trade in this great game of ours … and always that it will be.

     

     

    These stats on the face of it appear damning but it's hard to compare the two eras. There were some massive scorelines in the late 80s to 00s. Teams would regularly kick well over 120 points a game. I was watching a game from 93 yesterday where we scored 160 points. We scored 156 points in the 00 prelim. Players kicking large bags and in turn teams kicking massive scores just is not the norm today.

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