3 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Who did we have in the twos they he kept out of the team?  And who did we have once Frawley and Howe left?  And who was there when Tom went fwd?  Folks would prefer we left Frosty out there on his own?

Time will tell how far Oscar can go.  But when looking back lets look at the circumstances of his selection.

I didn’t refer to Oscar specifically. Just the notion that gifting games is not a thing. 

14 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

Not necessarily. Sometimes guys get pushed ahead of others due to being a particular coach’s favourite, a high draft pick or a ‘project’ the FD thinks they can transform into a certain type of player. They may not necessarily be in the best form or more worthy than another bloke in the twos. This happens frequently. ‘Gifting games’ is a real thing and can be detrimental to both a footballer’s development  and overall team morale.

This notion of "gifting" is ridiculous.

A player's selection is often/sometimes a puzzle to us supporters. That , however, does not mean said player is being "gifted" a game. It simply means that we ,as supporters, do not and cannot know the internal machinations, processes and thinking of the selection committee and coaches.

Speculation and philosophising maybe rife but just like "the meaning of life" - somethings must remain a mystery.

2 minutes ago, ManDee said:

I hate to admit it but one this occasion I think you are right. There are plenty of examples. Watts first game ( he is the future). Pedersen being left out (he is not the future), Magner being left out (??)  Many players get games when there are others showing better form in the VFL. I suppose Lewis will get a game this week, BOG in the VFL or will the FD invest in the future? Preuss has our highest goal per game average and can play in the ruck, Tommy Mac had been in terrible form, who do we play? 

Correct. It happens all the time at all levels of footy.

1 hour ago, ManDee said:

Clayton Oliver, come on down!

I’m sure we’d find something in the 2017 pre-season drink driving thread.

1 minute ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

I’m sure we’d find something in the 2017 pre-season drink driving thread.

Go for it. I am pretty sure you won't, I certainly won't.

The intersting question going forward is what role Oscar has to play assuming Frost, Lever and May are fit.

All are 5-6 year players and given that Oscar has had a solid taste of senior football I could not imagine that he will be happy to play back up to these three.

From a club viewpoint it's great to have depth but it's very much a double edged sword when you have players on the cusp.

Edited June 25, 20196 yr by Diamond_Jim

11 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

The interesting question going forward is what role Oscar has to play assuming Frost, Lever and May are fit.

All are 5-6 year players and given that Oscar has had a solid taste of senior football I could not imagine that he will be happy to play back up to these three.

From a club viewpoint it's great to have depth but it's very much a double edged sword when you have players on the cusp.

Good question, especially as we have Petty developing. 

At some stage we may need to trade out Frost, OMc or Petty.  It will be for their benefit rather than what some think; that they aren't good enough.  I doubt if any of them would be on the trade table for long.  And we would get good trade value.

Edited June 26, 20196 yr by Lucifer's Hero

1 hour ago, chook fowler said:

the term gifted a game really grates. Players get games because they are the best available.

100% agree. The club probably did Omac a a disservice by trading Dunn  and not having any other senior big defenders and leaving him to fill the breach, rather than playing more games at Casey.

And there was no question of him being gifted games last year as he was key part of a back six that from round 12 was the most frugal in the AFL and helped us make a prelim.

It is important to to note in that context that omac's form in the second half of the year ensured our best forward, Tmac could actually play forward and not go back.

it is also relevant to note they elected to extend his contract to the end of 2020, something clubs don't do with players they don't think are up to it. 

Edited June 26, 20196 yr by binman

coaches have favorites for good reason - effort on the training track, attitude, ability to fulfill a role, Xfactors, needing to trial a new player to see if they are capable of stepping up.  Selection is a complex process and made by a committee, not just one person. Sometimes they get it wrong but it is is easy to judge that in retrospect.

11 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Good question, especially as we have Petty developing. 

At some stage we may need to trade out Frost, OMc or Petty.  It will be for their benefit rather than what some think; that they aren't good enough.  I doubt if any of them would be on the trade table for long.  And we would get good trade value.

Had forgotten about Petty but very good point.

Notice that Collingwood are facing a somewhat similar problem with Reid and Cox.

19 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Good question, especially as we have Petty developing. 

At some stage we may need to trade out Frost, OMc or Petty.  It will be for their benefit rather than what some think; that they aren't good enough.  I doubt if any of them would be on the trade table for long.  And we would get good trade value.

Perhaps that's the reason why Frost hasn't been signed up yet? Not making a judgement call on any of them, but both OMac and Petty are in contract for 2020. We'd also get the most value for Frost at the moment, given the massive strides he's made this year.

Realistically if everyone was fit our backline would be Lever, May, Jetta, Hibberd plus 2 of Hore, Frost, Petty and Omac, with a mid thrown into the mix as well (include Fritsch in that).

3 minutes ago, Red and Blue realist said:

Perhaps that's the reason why Frost hasn't been signed up yet? Not making a judgement call on any of them, but both OMac and Petty are in contract for 2020. We'd also get the most value for Frost at the moment, given the massive strides he's made this year.

Realistically if everyone was fit our backline would be Lever, May, Jetta, Hibberd plus 2 of Hore, Frost, Petty and Omac, with a mid thrown into the mix as well (include Fritsch in that).

Did you forget Salem or do you see him as a midfielder/wingman?

43 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Did you forget Salem or do you see him as a midfielder/wingman?

Yes Salem is in there, but I think we'd go with the 6 true backmen, the 4 set plus 2 more, then have 2 or so mids/utilities such as Salem, Jones, Fritsch, Lewis, KK etc. roll through there as well. They are more suited to a mid/back role than say Oliver, Trac, Harmes who are more mid/forwards. 

For those who watch these things what is the usual time on ground for our tall defenders. Does that require a "spare" and if not when one is off how do we match up?

thanks

10 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

For those who watch these things what is the usual time on ground for our tall defenders. Does that require a "spare" and if not when one is off how do we match up?

thanks

Usually more than 90%.

Re match ups without a 'spare'.  Defender goes off when a fwd goes off and/or Max drops back.

15 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

Oh, well that's that. Close thread because picket knows what.

FMD....

Taken out of context, I meant to say wouldn't be back in the ones this year.! Prefer to play others and see whats on offer! Not out of the club. He is contracted !

7 hours ago, ManDee said:

I hate to admit it but one this occasion I think you are right. There are plenty of examples. Watts first game ( he is the future). Pedersen being left out (he is not the future), Magner being left out (??)  Many players get games when there are others showing better form in the VFL. I suppose Lewis will get a game this week, BOG in the VFL or will the FD invest in the future? Preuss has our highest goal per game average and can play in the ruck, Tommy Mac had been in terrible form, who do we play? 

The point being that being a "coach's favourite" and "gifting games" are bull [censored] slogans and not the same as developing a young kp player over an older player approaching retirement (Lewis, Pedo) or a player who struggled with us when we were by far the worst team in the comp (Magner). Watts first game and James Magner were not Goodwin's or even Roos' calls to make. Not apples with apples.

We had limited options for key backs last year, even up until a few weeks ago. Omac had a servicable year in 2018. I thought he and Frost were part of a good backline that helped propel us to a PF. Got showed up by Hawkins and a couple of others, but took quite a few scalps as well. He's been out of form this year and the club are addressing it with good player development strategies. FMD...  talk about damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Preuss has no tank at the moment and lasts 2 quarter at VFL level and Tmac is back in form, so I'm not sure what the problem or what your point is.

Edited June 26, 20196 yr by Moonshadow

7 hours ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

This notion of "gifting" is ridiculous.

A player's selection is often/sometimes a puzzle to us supporters. That , however, does not mean said player is being "gifted" a game. It simply means that we ,as supporters, do not and cannot know the internal machinations, processes and thinking of the selection committee and coaches.

Speculation and philosophising maybe rife but just like "the meaning of life" - somethings must remain a mystery.

This x 10 ?

20 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

The point being that being a "coach's favourite" and "gifting games" are bull [censored] slogans and not the same as developing a young kp player over an older player approaching retirement (Lewis, Pedo) or a player who struggled with us when we were by far the worst team in the comp (Magner). Watts first game and James Magner were not Goodwin's or even Roos' calls to make. Not apples with apples.

We had limited options for key backs last year, even up until a few weeks ago. Omac had a servicable year in 2018. I thought he and Frost were part of a good backline that helped propel us to a PF. Got showed up by Hawkins and a couple of others, but took quite a few scalps as well. He's been out of form this year and the club are addressing it with good player development strategies. FMD...  talk about damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Preuss has no tank at the moment and lasts 2 quarter at VFL level and Tmac is back in form, so I'm not sure what the problem or what your point is.

No problem, but players are not picked solely on form. I like Omac and think he will be back. Some selections have me wondering. Preuss should have been playing, I don't care if he only plays 50 min a match,  that helps Max and the 2 goals a game is better than Tom has been doing. I am delighted that Tom Mac started to show some form and the Preuss boat may have sailed for the time being, but some selections this year have had be bewildered.

11 minutes ago, ManDee said:

No problem, but players are not picked solely on form. I like Omac and think he will be back. Some selections have me wondering. Preuss should have been playing, I don't care if he only plays 50 min a match,  that helps Max and the 2 goals a game is better than Tom has been doing. I am delighted that Tom Mac started to show some form and the Preuss boat may have sailed for the time being, but some selections this year have had be bewildered.

Past performance is not indicative of future results.

Preuss is 23, blows up by half time, even though he's 2nd ruck, in the forward line or on the bench.

Tmac is a senior player with runs on the board over a number of years. Lets remember he kicked 53 goals last year. Coming good from (alleged) injuries and form slump was inevitable.

Player selection is based upon form, player and team development, opposition match ups/balence and individual player load.

Claiming a player is played because they are the "coach's favourite" or that they are "gifted games" shows how simplistic some supporters are.

 

8 hours ago, Red and Blue realist said:

Perhaps that's the reason why Frost hasn't been signed up yet? Not making a judgement call on any of them, but both OMac and Petty are in contract for 2020. We'd also get the most value for Frost at the moment, given the massive strides he's made this year.

Realistically if everyone was fit our backline would be Lever, May, Jetta, Hibberd plus 2 of Hore, Frost, Petty and Omac, with a mid thrown into the mix as well (include Fritsch in that).

 

8 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Did you forget Salem or do you see him as a midfielder/wingman?

Hopefully Fritsch will be able to play more his natural roles as wing or forward.

Salem to me looks like the skilled leader / distributor HBF we desperately need.

Edited June 26, 20196 yr by monoccular