5 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

Relevance? Out at West Buggaranong they use the same shaped ball, the grass is flat and the two sticks stand upright the same distance apart as they do on the MCG. 

If anything the pristine conditions of AFL/VFL grounds should make it easier to convert set shots. 

It is called pressure

We choke in front of goal,  pure and simple. 

Can be fixed too ... with a much more reliable 'taught'  technique and a ton of practice.

Reality check says we are not getting any better and in fact,  the problem is getting worse

That is how choking works.  It gets worse unless remedied.

And the opposition would know it too ... for instance,  passing the ball off in an unnecessary way sends a clear message to the opposition and can have the effect of giving the other mob undue confidence.

And then the sledging amps up which just exacerbates the problem.

And you never give a sucker an even break.

Edited June 12, 20196 yr by Macca

On 6/10/2019 at 5:59 PM, Damo said:

You would think Nick Reiwoldt or Wayne Carey would be available(payable) to come down and talk forward craft to forwards and mids.

That is the exact kind of thinking we need. Add Schwarta to that list and get it done! 

2 hours ago, drysdale demon said:

It is called pressure

Pressure level on set shot kicking has not altered in the 35 years I've been watching and I assume the 35 years prior to that.

28 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

Pressure level on set shot kicking has not altered in the 35 years I've been watching and I assume the 35 years prior to that.

there is always pressure and the worse  a team is performing the pressure mounts, I thought an expert such as yourself would understand that.

1 minute ago, drysdale demon said:

there is always pressure and the worse  a team is performing the pressure mounts, I thought an expert such as yourself would understand that.

Essentially what you are saying then is our players aren't coping with pressure, while players from other clubs are.

I would agree.

6 minutes ago, drysdale demon said:

there is always pressure and the worse  a team is performing the pressure mounts, I thought an expert such as yourself would understand that.

Exactly right, it feeds on itself

I have watched every particular skill instructed and practiced at training

We have two of the best development coaches, recognised by their peers, in McCartney and Egan

It is just not happening in games

And for those with short memories the same coaches had the team flying last year

You can see the frustration on the coaches at the end of the game, excellent training and skill sessions, meetings  etc etc during the week and then......

2 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

Essentially what you are saying then is our players aren't coping with pressure, while players from other clubs are.

I would agree.

Don't agree with me , I can't have such an esteemed expert of the game such as yourself agreeing with a mere mortal such as I

8 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

Essentially what you are saying then is our players aren't coping with pressure, while players from other clubs are.

I would agree.

You must not have played sport  a couple of wins and the momentum rolls    a couple of defeats and the pressure ramps up

1 minute ago, Satyriconhome said:

You must not have played sport  a couple of wins and the momentum rolls    a couple of defeats and the pressure ramps up

It is not a "couple" of defeats. It is 9 in 12 games from a top four fancy.

The buck doesn't stop with the players. At least that much you must acknowledge.

6 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

Exactly right, it feeds on itself

I have watched every particular skill instructed and practiced at training

We have two of the best development coaches, recognised by their peers, in McCartney and Egan

It is just not happening in games

And for those with short memories the same coaches had the team flying last year

You can see the frustration on the coaches at the end of the game, excellent training and skill sessions, meetings  etc etc during the week and then......

I'm sure there's plenty of effort and instruction going into training and everyone involved is working hard. That does not mean it's effective though.

You would agree our "forward connection" is a major issue yes? Along with our finishing in front of goal? Pretty hard to argue.

Currently, we have a former defender (albeit a quality one) as the sole coach responsible for our forward structure and goal kicking technique. Now, you may argue he knows the theory, but clearly it's hard to instruct players who have played 100 more games as a forward than he has on what they should be doing with their leading patterns and set shot routines. I'm not sure what more evidence you need other than our performance this year in that regard.

As far as "flying" last year, that's simply not the case in regards to our forward structure and goal kicking accuracy. We were appalling in front of goal against decent teams, and a combination of fitness, momentum, form and the previous rules all kept us winning, but our forward delivery and structure was still poor. Let's remember, we're specifically talking about forward craft, structure and the delivery here, and none of that was"flying" last year either.

McCartney and Egan absolutely have my respect, but between them they have the sum total of 1 AFL goal. Not exactly forward experts or the blokes you'd go to for set shot routine advice.

"It is just not happening in games" just doesn't cut it mate.

 

 

11 hours ago, FireInTheBelly said:

If we're able to execute at training, but not during the heat of battle, surely it means only one thing. We're not training with the players under the necessary pressure or fatigue levels.

It could also mean that the bulk of our forwards look/do ok or better when training (non AFL ...match simulation) but their kicking action does not hold up on match day (under fatigue or any degree of AFL level pressure).

Time to move a good number of them on at season's end, including some name players, if we are to improve (substantially) next year and for years to come.

If not we risk wasting a very decent back 6 and a mid field that still offers great upside.

Edited June 12, 20196 yr by Rusty Nails

On 6/12/2019 at 10:53 AM, drysdale demon said:

In which vfl/afl side were you accomplished at that?

Does that matter?? Good players at any level eat pressure for breakfast. The key is in technique and honing skills in goal kicking through repetition and excellent drill!

Its that simple. Peter Mc Kenna was the best exponent of the drop punt from anywhere 65 meters out, angles Never phased him and there were others, Doug Wade. Peter Hudson, were Crack shots on goal. And there is a reason for it.

Repetition, Practice, Technique

None of this Bulltish kicking from angles round the body where hardly any exists. Its all garbage mentality

Ok, I played 10 years of Amos as a HFF I didn't miss to many from ANYWHERE!

3 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Does that matter?? Good players at any level eat pressure for breakfast. The key is in technique and honing skills in goal kicking through repetition and excellent drill!

Its that simple. Peter Mc Kenna was the best exponent of the drop punt from anywhere 65 meters out, angles Never phased him and there were others, Doug Wade. Peter Hudson, were Crack shots on goal. And there is a reason for it.

Repetition, Practice, Technique

None of this Bulltish kicking from angles round the body where hardly any exists. Its all garbage mentality

Ok, I played 10 years of Amos as a HFF I didn't miss to many from ANYWHERE!

I played for North Portland U/14's and couldn't even  hit up a 20m target - but did win the best clubman award ... does my opinion count???

Edited June 13, 20195 yr by Engorged Onion

1 hour ago, Engorged Onion said:

I played for North Portland U/14's and couldn't even  hit up a 20m target - but did win the best clubman award ... does my opinion count???

Yep , And even more so If you agree with me!!!?

1 hour ago, picket fence said:

Does that matter?? Good players at any level eat pressure for breakfast. The key is in technique and honing skills in goal kicking through repetition and excellent drill!

Its that simple. Peter Mc Kenna was the best exponent of the drop punt from anywhere 65 meters out, angles Never phased him and there were others, Doug Wade. Peter Hudson, were Crack shots on goal. And there is a reason for it.

Repetition, Practice, Technique

None of this Bulltish kicking from angles round the body where hardly any exists. Its all garbage mentality

Ok, I played 10 years of Amos as a HFF I didn't miss to many from ANYWHERE!

Me, I was the champion at throwing pieces of chalk into a chalk box at school during free periods - from 20 paces. Nobody came near me. I still throw objects into our recycle bin from 20 paces and yell out, GOAL every time. No, I don't wanna become the Demon Chalkboard accuracy coach, my knees are gone, both of them, Osteoarthritis, Double PKneemonia. I did kick a goal from the boundary line after Laurie Sandiland infringed while contesting a boundary throw in. A perfect Torp. Straight through the high diddle diddle. Trouble was I wasn't trying to kick a goal. 

22 minutes ago, dieter said:

Me, I was the champion at throwing pieces of chalk into a chalk box at school during free periods - from 20 paces. Nobody came near me. I still throw objects into our recycle bin from 20 paces and yell out, GOAL every time. No, I don't wanna become the Demon Chalkboard accuracy coach, my knees are gone, both of them, Osteoarthritis, Double PKneemonia. I did kick a goal from the boundary line after Laurie Sandiland infringed while contesting a boundary throw in. A perfect Torp. Straight through the high diddle diddle. Trouble was I wasn't trying to kick a goal. 

Chalk that one up to you dieter.

AAANNND IT STILL AINT THAT HARD TO KICK GOALS

Only at MFC!!

Would anyone be surprised to hear that I was a prolific goal kicker in my day and deadly accurate to boot. Could launch a decent barrel from outside 50, too. Cheers.

 

3 hours ago, dieter said:

Me, I was the champion at throwing pieces of chalk into a chalk box at school during free periods - from 20 paces. Nobody came near me. I still throw objects into our recycle bin from 20 paces and yell out, GOAL every time. No, I don't wanna become the Demon Chalkboard accuracy coach, my knees are gone, both of them, Osteoarthritis, Double PKneemonia. I did kick a goal from the boundary line after Laurie Sandiland infringed while contesting a boundary throw in. A perfect Torp. Straight through the high diddle diddle. Trouble was I wasn't trying to kick a goal. 

 

2 hours ago, Sorry kids said:

Chalk that one up to you dieter.

 

Faaaantastic,  unconscious,  eye-hand co-ordination... pure subconscious reflex,  at her focus spot.

... see how she stutters in her throw, the last twitch change of direction,  at the camera itself.

 

1 hour ago, picket fence said:

AAANNND IT STILL AINT THAT HARD TO KICK GOALS

Only at MFC!!

 

... focus on your target behind the goals...  and ForGet about those bloody big sticks....   focus,  kick,  and follow thru inline with your target.

... thats all.

 

That would help 85% of it.

.

On 6/12/2019 at 11:26 AM, Macca said:

We choke in front of goal,  pure and simple. 

Can be fixed too ... with a much more reliable 'taught'  technique and a ton of practice.

Reality check says we are not getting any better and in fact,  the problem is getting worse

That is how choking works.  It gets worse unless remedied.

And the opposition would know it too ... for instance,  passing the ball off in an unnecessary way sends a clear message to the opposition and can have the effect of giving the other mob undue confidence.

And then the sledging amps up which just exacerbates the problem.

And you never give a sucker an even break.

If you are going to sit/lean back on your last step as you kick for goal, resulting in little forward momentum with most kicks, as most of our players do (poor technique/execution) and try to guide it through, then guess what sort of result is likely for most right footers!?

Then there's Tracc's chest high ball drop method!

The two attempted bananas from Hannan & T-Mac last two weeks both missing by a country mile!  Wowee!

Seriously who is (isn't) teaching / correcting these guys?  Rooke, Viney???

It's embarrassing as a Club and unwatchable.   How Goody is allowing / overseeing this is beyond me.

We have become a joke in the competition again within 6 months and it's no wonder opps treat us with contempt with methods like this.  So many ex greats of the gane we could bring in to assist but where are they?

Very poorly coached and drilled.  And if they truly are getting the correct set shot kicking technique / training as forwards, and still not getting it after this long then they might need to be axed! 

Goody seems way too stubborn, unable to see where the changes/assists (T-Mac to Casey to regain some form/confidence  for Pruess) are needed...and make them.  Still wants to persist with the most out of form forward in T-Mac after the season is over and didnt fire a shot in 12 rounds!

Regardless of whether there's a slight improvement in form from here the damage is done and Goody's decision to persist with T-Mac for the entire first half has almost ensured we are no chance of making finals.  It's almost like he just wont accept he was wrong and wants to prove to everybody his decision to continue was justified, even at the expense of the club's potential finals chances.  "See i told you he would be fine" (Goody's presser after T-Mac scores 4 goals in a return to form against the Blues, Rnd 16).

Edited June 13, 20195 yr by Rusty Nails

On 6/11/2019 at 11:16 PM, Satyriconhome said:

I go to training and I am yet to hear a coach tell a player to miss a simple handball, kick to the feet of a leading forward,  try a switch to a player who is outnumbered etc etc

 

You go to training, but you have no idea what you're looking at. 

You told us all summer that players didn't really have interrupted preseasons and would all be cherry ripe for Round 1 and all the surgeries and late starts wouldnt affect their season and blah blah blah

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

4 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

If you are going to sit/lean back on your last step as you kick for goal, resulting in little forward momentum with most kicks, as most of our players do (poor technique/execution) and try to guide it through, then guess what sort of result is likely for most right footers!?

Then there's Tracc's chest high ball drop method!

The two attempted bananas from Hannan & T-Mac last two weeks both missing by a country mile!  Wowee!

Seriously who is (isn't) teaching / correcting these guys?  Rooke, Viney???

It's embarrassing as a Club and unwatchable.   How Goody is allowing / overseeing this is beyond me.

We have become a joke in the competition again within 6 months and it's no wonder opps treat us with contempt with methods like this.  So many ex greats of the gane we could bring in to assist but where are they?

Very poorly coached and drilled.  And if they truly are getting the correct set shot kicking technique / training as forwards, and still not getting it after this long then they might need to be axed! 

Goody seems way too stubborn, unable to see where the changes/assists (T-Mac to Casey to regain some form/confidence  for Pruess) are needed...and make them.  Still wants to persist with the most out of form forward in T-Mac after the season is over and didnt fire a shot in 12 rounds!

Regardless of whether there's a slight improvement in form from here the damage is done and Goody's decision to persist with T-Mac for the entire first half has almost ensured we are no chance of making finals.  It's almost like he just wont accept he was wrong and wants to prove to everybody his decision to continue was justified, even at the expense of the club's potential finals chances.  "See i told you he would be fine" (Goody's presser after T-Mac scores 4 goals in a return to form against the Blues, Rnd 16).

It’s almost as if our forwards are kicking for goal like they’re backmen. 

Now why might that be??

9 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

It’s almost as if our forwards are kicking for goal like they’re backmen. 

Now why might that be??

Quite possibly RR.  The other factor is his change of role last season.  Effectively you could argue it was like a rookie KF coming in for his first season.  The opp had very little intel on him re how he played forward, forward patterns, favoured side to roll on and kick at goal etc.

After a season of intel (and probably earlier...see Eagles homework for Prelim) most of the opp analysts and coaches had a chance to do their homework and are now matching him up with players who are better briefed/drilled & suited to playing on him.  Add to this the fact he is also getting the opp's better forward with Hogan out and you may have the recipe for this year's massive fall from grace.

If so it then becomes a question of...does he have the ability to take his forward game to another level and counter?

8 hours ago, DV8 said:

... focus on your target behind the goals...  and ForGet about those bloody big sticks....   focus,  kick,  and follow thru inline with your target.

All well and good in theory to have a set routine but where's the part where they drown?

(Maybe Tracc's high ball drop is from too much grabbing at flotation devices)

 

4 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

It's embarrassing as a Club and unwatchable.   How Goody is allowing / overseeing this is beyond me.

Club in the highest level comp in the country literally cannot score goals to save itself. But steady as she goes.

 

4 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

We have become a joke in the competition again within 6 months and it's no wonder opps treat us with contempt with methods like this.  So many ex greats of the gane we could bring in to assist but where are they?

Well it's easy to say that but have you considered that maybe the problem is we're just not attacking the ball hard enough?

 

 

Einstein said something about doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Now what was it again?