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AFL and 18 Clubs apologise to Adam Goodes

Lucifers Hero
Lucifers Hero
in Melbourne Demons

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Just now, Cranky Franky said:

That is a very poor argument.  You have made an assertion without providing any evidence at all.

You may as well say "98% of those booing were racists because that's what i think".

Furthermore you haven't explained why say Michael Long - another "uppity" and outspoken player wasn't booed when he called out  racial abuse. 

Exactly, that's my opinion. Everyone especially is saying theirs, I'm saying mine.

Sounds like you don't like it as it's hit a nerve. 

    • Like 2
     
    4 hours ago, Matsuo Basho said:

    Who are these people who made up facts? Who are these 'hundreds of people' posting online' among a population of 25 million people? 

    I'm sure if you looked on certain Facebook, Twitter and bogan footy forum pages you would find a similar number of nuffies hating on Muslim people or gay people or Asian people and yes even white people! 

    Why feed these trolls by emphasizing divisions and making aggressive gestures? It's dumb. And it's baffling because having heard Adam Goodes speak a number of times he seems an intelligent person and a likable person. Certainly was one of the great footballers of the past 25 years, indigenous and otherwise. But some of the decisions he made around that time were not bright and I can only surmise he either just didn''t have a good handle on public diplomacy, or he was being poorly advised by hysterical "Invasion Day" rabble rousers. Neither of those two reasons are sins in and of themselves, but they do explain at least in part, a reason why things got so out of control back then. 

    The film won't touch that angle of course because it sits uncomfortably with the finger pointing narrative of having to put a spotlight on "racist whitey" at costs. Or "white folk" as you put it.

    That's not being part of the solution, just as much as mass booing isn't.

    The ONLY solution to race relations is to bring people together. NOT push them apart. End of story.

    What do you mean who are they? Do you want me to name them? They are the people that boo. 

    So don't celebrate your culture because the uneducated won't like it? What a great message to send. That's almost the basis for this entire discussion isn't it? 

    He has every right to do what he did. The fact is that the bigots don''t like it so it's safer to stay quiet and play football. And to anyone reading this who still don't understand why Cyril and Eddie aren't booed, that is why! They stay quiet. Goodes didn't and he was run out of town.

    I totally agree we need to bring people together. That's what he was trying to do. But people twisted the narrative so their safe world didn't have to change and they didn't have to confront what is in the mirror.

    • Like 3
    1 hour ago, Superunknown said:

    I think as good corporate citizens operating in the public domain they are within their rights to send a clear message on standards - it was a discrimination issue 

    I get your point and where you’re coming from but I think it’s within their remit

    But where do you draw the line? Should the AFL comment on the environment (i guess it effects playing surfaces), the economy (it effects fans ability to buy tickets), The NDS (diabled people get discriminted against, if its about discrimination for you), The glass ceiling women face in the corporate world etc Unless it directly effects the game, the players, the cubs or the fans- id say the AFL should steer clear

     
    3 hours ago, demonstone said:

    The context was that it was Indigenous Round and a team of under 16 all Indigenous players had taught the Swans players the war dance during the week.  Goodes and Lewis Jetta agreed that the first of them to kick a goal that day would perform the dance.  Goodes duly kicked the first goal and performed the dance (incorporating throwing a spear), aiming towards a nearby pocket of Carlton fans who had been booing him since the game had begun.    

    That’s the context he stated after the fact, I believe that if he stated he was going to do this before the game the supporters probably wouldn’t have unleashed as they did? Also, as I stated, he could’ve done it in front of Swans supporters, they would’ve loved it and it wouldn’t have blown up. So I stick to my point that in this case he could’ve handled it a little better.

    18 minutes ago, deegirl said:

    But why is it up to indigenous Australians to be nice and play the reconcilers?  Their culture has been killed, their languages gone extinct, their land taken. Indigenous Australians have lower life expectancy and higher incarceration rates. So why is it on them to take white Australia's hand and gently lead them into the future? 

    Goodes got booed for calling out the reality instead of falling into line of rubbish tokenism of events like Dreamtime at the G. 

    In the eyes of the majority Adam Goodes was an 'uppity [censored]' who didn't know his place. That's why he got booed. 

    Be angry and non-conciliatory then. Lie down and stamp your feet. It doesn’t work among individuals. It doesn’t work among families. It doesn’t work among communities. It doesn’t work among racial and political groups and finally it doesn’t work as a platform of diplomacy among nation states. 

    In another 200 years China will probably have a controlling interest in Australia and they’ll have even less time for centuries old indigenous grudges and grievances than the current political structure is allowing. 

    Getting along and making the best of our cards as they fall is the best any of us can hope for. The tide does not care for those who wish to swim against the current. 

    • Like 1

    Range Rover, you are a poor man's ProDee.

    I have you on ignore by the way so i won't see your long winded response that aims to wind people up. You know, troll.

    Unless of course someone quotes you. Which i wish people would stop doing. Because you are sooo boring.

    • Like 2
    • Love 1
    5 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

    Be angry and non-conciliatory then. Lie down and stamp your feet. It doesn’t work among individuals. It doesn’t work among families. It doesn’t work among communities. It doesn’t work among racial and political groups and finally it doesn’t work as a platform of diplomacy among nation states. 

    In another 200 years China will probably have a controlling interest in Australia and they’ll have even less time for centuries old indigenous grudges and grievances than the current political structure is allowing. 

    Getting along and making the best of our cards as they fall is the best any of us can hope for. The tide does not care for those who wish to swim against the current. 

    Was waiting for Demonland's most notorious know all to come and explain things.

    in these types of debates conciliatory is just code for 'don't make white people uncomfortable'.  And I think it's about time we were made uncomfortable. 

    • Like 8
    • Haha 1
    12 minutes ago, deegirl said:

    Was waiting for Demonland's most notorious know all to come and explain things.

    in these types of debates conciliatory is just code for 'don't make white people uncomfortable'.  And I think it's about time we were made uncomfortable. 

    It doesn't mean that at all.

    You're inventing a boogeyman that doesn't exist. 

    • Like 1
     
    24 minutes ago, binman said:

    Range Rover, you are a poor man's ProDee.

    I have you on ignore by the way so i won't see your long winded response that aims to wind people up. You know, troll.

    Unless of course someone quotes you. Which i wish people would stop doing. Because you are sooo boring.

    Even though you (purportedly) won't read this, I'm aware of ProDee and can assure I am nothing like him at all. If you were truly reading and contemplating my posts this would be clear to you. You can't fit me in a neat little box. I'm neither Left, nor Right or Middle. I can understand I would seem "boring" to anyone stuck in in a loop of fixed political and philosophical reference points. Adieu.

    12 hours ago, Matsuo Basho said:

    Be angry and non-conciliatory then. Lie down and stamp your feet. It doesn’t work among individuals. It doesn’t work among families. It doesn’t work among communities. It doesn’t work among racial and political groups and finally it doesn’t work as a platform of diplomacy among nation states. 

    In another 200 years China will probably have a controlling interest in Australia and they’ll have even less time for centuries old indigenous grudges and grievances than the current political structure is allowing. 

    Getting along and making the best of our cards as they fall is the best any of us can hope for. The tide does not care for those who wish to swim against the current. 

    In other words ‘things probably won’t get better so why try?’.


    12 hours ago, Matsuo Basho said:

    Be angry and non-conciliatory then. Lie down and stamp your feet. It doesn’t work among individuals. It doesn’t work among families. It doesn’t work among communities. It doesn’t work among racial and political groups and finally it doesn’t work as a platform of diplomacy among nation states. 

    Tell Claudette Colvin and Rosa Parks, tell Ganhdi, tell Mandela that they should just keep towing the company line, be conciliatory and all would be fine....the world would soon come around to their way of thinking.

    3 minutes ago, rjay said:

    Tell Claudette Colvin and Rosa Parks, tell Ganhdi, tell Mandela that they should just keep towing the company line, be conciliatory and all would be fine....the world would soon come around to their way of thinking.

    Oh please. Now you’ve officially leapt the selachimorpha. 

    I can really picture Gandhi throwing a mock hand grenade at a crowd of Pakistanis. 

    Ahimsa, brother. Ahimsa.

    11 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

    Oh please. Now you’ve officially leapt the selachimorpha. 

    I can really picture Gandhi throwing a mock hand grenade at a crowd of Pakistanis. 

    Ahimsa, brother. Ahimsa.

    Serious question.. does your head hurt when you wake up in the morning?with so much knowledge it must throb like crazy

    Sorry Binman that I have quoted him

    Edited by drysdale demon
    more information

    14 hours ago, Cranky Franky said:

    That is a very poor argument.  You have made an assertion without providing any evidence at all.

    You may as well say "98% of those booing were racists because that's what i think".

    Furthermore you haven't explained why say Michael Long - another "uppity" and outspoken player wasn't booed when he called out  racial abuse. 

    Just because Michael Long didn't, doesn't mean Goodes didn't either.

    Social media and society, I think, has changed. Everything is turbo charged. That may play a part, but still...what Dee Girl (and Goofy et al) said.

    • Like 1

    Would really like this thread to be moved to the loony general board, alongside 'the moon is part of mars' thread.

    Thanks ?

    • Like 1

    Adam Goodes and wife Natalie Croker welcome daughter Adelaide

    https://www.smh.com.au/sport/afl/adam-goodes-and-wife-natalie-croker-welcome-daughter-adelaide-20190614-p51xs9.html

    Congratulatins to Goodse'y and wife Natalie,  on the birth of their first born...  Adelaide Goodes.

    Ms Croker gave birth on Wednesday and are incredibly happy,  Goodes' management said,  with mother and daughter both healthy and doing well.

    Former Sydney Swans AFL footballer Adam Goodes and wife Natalie Croker are new parents.

    Former Sydney Swans AFL footballer Adam Goodes and wife Natalie Croker are new parents.Credit:AAP

    The couple announced their pregnancy in February and have been married since 2016.

    https://www.smh.com.au/sport/afl/adam-goodes-and-wife-natalie-croker-welcome-daughter-adelaide-20190614-p51xs9.html

     

    That piece of news popping up for some reason made me go back and check his playing career stats, and awards. Also spent some time just reminiscing about his playing style and roles.

    Setting everything else aside for a moment, is it just me or would Adam Goodes be the precisely perfect player to add to our 22 right now? Plenty of goals, a huge load of goal-assists, really effective at getting the ball to dangerous places and doing it quickly and decisively, good at offering leads backed by top workrate. And as a bonus he contributed most of that right from the start of his career (hence the 372 games).

     

    Oh, and uh... just for the people still splurting on as if his 'playing for frees' was an actual thing and not just a shameful beat-up... his career average for 'Frees For' was one a game, which doesn't even put him in the top-100 for 2019. His highest season average for frees was 1.3, which just barely sneaks him into the current top-70 for 2019... and that average is when he was playing primarily as an undersized ruckman/mid.

    If he was flopping and diving for frees an unusual amount, then clearly it was also the one and only aspect of Australian football that he wasn't elite at.

    Oh, to have a pick 43 the likes of Adam Goodes.

    • Like 2
    42 minutes ago, Little Goffy said:

    That piece of news popping up for some reason made me go back and check his playing career stats, and awards. Also spent some time just reminiscing about his playing style and roles.

    Setting everything else aside for a moment, is it just me or would Adam Goodes be the precisely perfect player to add to our 22 right now? Plenty of goals, a huge load of goal-assists, really effective at getting the ball to dangerous places and doing it quickly and decisively, good at offering leads backed by top workrate. And as a bonus he contributed most of that right from the start of his career (hence the 372 games).

     

    Oh, and uh... just for the people still splurting on as if his 'playing for frees' was an actual thing and not just a shameful beat-up... his career average for 'Frees For' was one a game, which doesn't even put him in the top-100 for 2019. His highest season average for frees was 1.3, which just barely sneaks him into the current top-70 for 2019... and that average is when he was playing primarily as an undersized ruckman/mid.

    If he was flopping and diving for frees an unusual amount, then clearly it was also the one and only aspect of Australian football that he wasn't elite at.

    Oh, to have a pick 43 the likes of Adam Goodes.

    The playing for frees thing was always a beat up IMO. Peddled by true racists online and from radio talkback callers to mask shameful prejudices. A lot of people who boo'd Goodes would not have done so for that reason. Like most on here I've been a keen watcher of footy for several decades and know a furphy when I hear one. Goodes was no better or worse at milking free kicks than hundreds of other players during his career.

    He would certainly been in the top ten for me if would could magically manifest a player from the recent past. 6ft 3' 100kg utility who could dominate in virtually any position on the ground, run like the wind and pinch hit at full forward. What's not to like.

    • Like 4
    On 6/10/2019 at 8:30 PM, deegirl said:

     

    in these types of debates conciliatory is just code for 'don't make white people uncomfortable'.  And I think it's about time we were made uncomfortable. 

    Why the hell would you want anyone made uncomfortable based on their skin colour?

     

    1 hour ago, Little Goffy said:

    Setting everything else aside for a moment, is it just me or would Adam Goodes be the precisely perfect player to add to our 22 right now?

    Plenty of goals, a huge load of goal-assists, really effective at getting the ball to dangerous places and doing it quickly and decisively, good at offering leads backed by top workrate. And as a bonus he contributed most of that right from the start of his career (hence the 372 games).

    The closet to him, of what we had last year,  was imo, TMc.

    We've missed TMc playing as a tall mid/hff.


    While on the subject of racism I'd be interested to know what others' thoughts are on this article on the AFL website.

    https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-06-17/call-it-kiya-stackbetts-hug-explained-why-whitefellas-miss-the-point

    "Whitefellas miss the point"? Which "whitefellas" are Des Headland referring to? Garry Lyon and a some dills he's seen on Twitter? In the wake of this minor occurrence I heard nothing but praise from commentators and ex players or at the very least most people just regarded it as a non-issue.

    Then Headland goes on to talk about the indigenous brotherhood and the warm and caring nature of First Nation's people and how people should "learn lessons" from it, while also throwing in some twisted logic about how this is what Adam Goodes was really trying to do with his war dance and spear throw - teach the Carlton cheer squad a valuable lesson. Yeah, sure he was Des.

    I love what indigenous people bring to the game and what indigenous cultures bring to the Australian psyche in general, but this kind of article and thought process is not helpful in the quest to bring people of different backgrounds together. Calling people "whitefellas" or "white folk" and then assigning that amorphous group of people a character judgement based on, well on their skin colour … how is that not racist? Would it be acceptable for a Caucasian person or a Muslim person or an Asian person to cast a blanket aspersion about "blackfellas"? Of course not.

    Racism is racism, whether you're Des Headland, Jeff Kennett or some [censored] jockey online taunting people anonymously on Twitter.

    "How are we going to stop the scourge of racism? For heaven's sake stop talking about it. I'm going to stop calling you a white man, and I'm going to ask you to stop calling me a black man.' - Morgan Freeman 

    On 6/15/2019 at 11:59 AM, Little Goffy said:

    That piece of news popping up for some reason made me go back and check his playing career stats, and awards. Also spent some time just reminiscing about his playing style and roles.

    Setting everything else aside for a moment, is it just me or would Adam Goodes be the precisely perfect player to add to our 22 right now? Plenty of goals, a huge load of goal-assists, really effective at getting the ball to dangerous places and doing it quickly and decisively, good at offering leads backed by top workrate. And as a bonus he contributed most of that right from the start of his career (hence the 372 games).

     

    Oh, and uh... just for the people still splurting on as if his 'playing for frees' was an actual thing and not just a shameful beat-up... his career average for 'Frees For' was one a game, which doesn't even put him in the top-100 for 2019. His highest season average for frees was 1.3, which just barely sneaks him into the current top-70 for 2019... and that average is when he was playing primarily as an undersized ruckman/mid.

    If he was flopping and diving for frees an unusual amount, then clearly it was also the one and only aspect of Australian football that he wasn't elite at.

    Oh, to have a pick 43 the likes of Adam Goodes.

    My take on Goodes was that he was quite literally the 'perfect' AFL player.  He could play Ruck, Forward, Wing or on the ball; and whilst I don't remember him ever playing there, he could have dominated down back as well.  He was strong, fast, had great power and acceleration, incredible endurance, clean hands and was extremely skilful.

    One of the things that was lost in the complete poo-storm that was his final year, was just how good a player he was.  If you were to design a perfect Australian Rules Footballer, he's pretty much what you'd come up with.

     

     

    • Like 1
     
    5 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

    My take on Goodes was that he was quite literally the 'perfect' AFL player.  He could play Ruck, Forward, Wing or on the ball; and whilst I don't remember him ever playing there, he could have dominated down back as well.  He was strong, fast, had great power and acceleration, incredible endurance, clean hands and was extremely skilful.

    One of the things that was lost in the complete poo-storm that was his final year, was just how good a player he was.  If you were to design a perfect Australian Rules Footballer, he's pretty much what you'd come up with.

     

     

    Won a Brownlow playing ruck and another as a midfielder. Go figure!

    On 6/10/2019 at 11:17 AM, Damo said:

    One of the worst aspects is my naive belief that Demon supporters didnt boo Goodesy. Yet here is the pudding.

     

    We actually started booing him early before all the BS about racism started.
    There was this incident and another similar poor act which could have also been towards Godfrey in another game.
    The AFL looked at them and of course called all clear due to their bias towards Brownlow winners and the games .... "Stars."
    Richmond supporters had their own reasons that he also got away with.


     

    64267289_10215873120795500_5745201658200064_n.jpg

    As for the supposed "War dance."
    He could've gone with the traditional emu or kangaroo dances to show his pride in culture in front of his own supporters but instead chose to go with a recently made up one running at opposition supporters brandishing an imaginary spear on National TV.
    The booing he got wasn't because of racism till he tried to be the next Nicky Winmar.
    Who didn't get boo'd ....
    Just reaped what he sowed and then cried poor me when it all blew up in his face.

    Edited by Fork 'em


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