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18 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Fess up.

Who was the Demonland [censored] just on SEN ?

Thankfully, Riewoldt hosed down your rubbish straight away.

What was said?

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11 minutes ago, Smokey said:

Not really. It's quite strange to watch people refute this notion with authority when they couldn't possibly be fully informed on the inner workings involving the CEO of a footy club.

Or any hierarchical organisation. The military example is a good one. Have you served? I would imagine that the energy brought in by officers and other top brass would be felt very quickly down through the ranks. It’s an intangible factor, yet easily and quickly picked up on by others ... be it good, bad or neutral. 

Edited by Matsuo Basho

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10 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

What was said?

It was straight out of this thread. 

He pointed at Caroline Wilson's June 2018 article regarding internal rumblings over the Pert appointment and asked Riewoldt whether it could be playing a part in the current on-field demise.

Riewoldt said playing groups don't usually get caught up in those types of things and thought the issues were far more system based in our playing style.  He gave the Pert reference very short shrift.  As anyone with a modicum of sense would.  Off-field issues can effect a club's culture over time, but Pert has been there 5 minutes and our footy department is well entrenched with strong stability and low turnover.   The Board is also stable.

The people who think Pert could be an issue probably also think we have 12 years to save the planet.  Gullible morons.

Btw, my censored word wasn't overly bad and sounded a bit like ''flag''.

Edited by ProDee
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5 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

Or any hierarchical organisation. The military example is a good one. Have you served? I would imagine that the energy brought in by officers and other top brass would be felt very quickly down through the ranks. It’s an intangible, yet easily and quickly felt by others ... be it good, bad or neutral.

Yes I'm ex-Army myself, and I can tell you that a change of leadership at the top level of a unit or regiment is almost immediately felt at the bottom. If you reverse engineer the scenario, you must conclude that Peter Jackson had nothing to do with the improvement to our on-field performance. 

Edited by Smokey
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1 minute ago, Smokey said:

Yes I'm ex-Army myself, and I can tell you that a change of leadership at the top level of a unit or regiment is almost immediately felt at the bottom. 

Interesting. Thanks for sharing.

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1 hour ago, ProDee said:

Fess up.

Who was the Demonland [censored] just on SEN ?

Thankfully, Riewoldt hosed down your rubbish straight away.

Don't usually listen to Whately as i'm at work but was driving and caught that.

I was really surprised Riewoldt (who i usually don't like but found quite interesting today) didn't mention the fitness and injury issue or for that matter neither did Whately as apparently he said just yesterday that it was THE reason for our form.

All the things Riewoldt mentioned - not getting back, structures etc (and factors he didn't mention like skill execution) - are no doubt issues but i see more as symptoms of having a crap pre season. The difficult pre season obviously impact not just fitness levels but also the opportunity to practice skills and at an individual level and systems, strategies, plays etc at the team level.

 They also discussed the fact that WC and the dees both had full contact, mouth guards in, training sessions this week, which was interesting. Riewoldt noted that such sessions were rare in season (as most sessions in season are about recovery,the game are what build fitness and there is big risk of injury) and that they represent one of the few opportunities coaches have to influence the mind set of the team on the track. A break glass in emergency sort of thing (my words).

I hadn't really considered that the games build fitness (which is a bit stupid i know given how taxing games are) and this gives me some hope that, injuries notwithstanding, we might be getting closer to an appropriate level of fitness.

Edited by binman
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Comparing military hierarchy with footy. Now I've heard it all!

Melb supporters really are losing the plot!

 

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10 minutes ago, ProDee said:

It was straight out of this thread. 

He pointed at Caroline Wilson's June 2018 article regarding internal rumblings over the Pert appointment and asked Riewoldt whether it could be playing a part in the current on-field demise.

Riewoldt said playing groups don't usually get caught up in those types of things and thought the issues were far more system based in our playing style.  He gave the Pert reference very short shrift.  As anyone with a modicum of sense would.  Off-field issues can effect a club's culture over time, but Pert has been there 5 minutes and our footy department is well entrenched with strong stability and low turnover.   The Board is also stable.

The people who think Pert could be an issue probably also think we have 12 years to save the planet.  Gullible morons.

Btw, my censored word wasn't overly bad and sounded a bit like ''flag''.

Must have been Matsuo Basho, he appears to have plenty of time on his hands

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3 hours ago, Matsuo Basho said:

The ructions over Pert’s appointment started back in June 2018 during and after the hiring process. 

I’m not disputing the flow down effects of corporate appointments, but I think it’s starting to draw a long bow to suggest onfield performance was impacted by a CEO who wasn’t sitting in the chair yet. I get what you’re saying in terms of unrest over Mahoney, PJ not being involved etc, I just think it’s starting to feel like jumping at shadows. That is if you’re suggesting it impacted our woeful performance in the prelim.

The reality was the Eagles sussed us out. As have other sides this year. The list of reasons as to what is happening are all football related, in my opinion. It is speculation, as Smokey says. We are all scratching our heads and looking for reasons. With my own speculative hat on, If Pert’s appointment is on the list at all, it’s at or near the bottom.

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1 minute ago, Moonshadow said:

Comparing military hierarchy with footy. Now I've heard it all!

Melb supporters really are losing the plot!

 

You've completely missed my point, which doesn't at all surprise me. 

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13 minutes ago, Smokey said:

Yes I'm ex-Army myself, and I can tell you that a change of leadership at the top level of a unit or regiment is almost immediately felt at the bottom. If you reverse engineer the scenario, you must conclude that Peter Jackson had nothing to do with the improvement to our on-field performance. 

Well I am ex-army as well and I don't there is any comparison between sporting clubs ad the army style of leadership.

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10 minutes ago, drysdale demon said:

Well I am ex-army as well and I don't there is any comparison between sporting clubs ad the army style of leadership.

I wasn't trying to directly compare the two, I was simply saying that in some cases a change of leadership at the top can flow down quickly. Both examples do have a hierarchical structure, but my point was much more general in nature. 

And again, I'm not saying Pert is to blame for anything right now. I'm just saying that it cannot be ruled out because we do not know. Not sure why so many are so passionately against this possibility. 

Edited by Smokey

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6 minutes ago, Smokey said:

And again, I'm not saying Pert is to blame for anything right now.

There are a few on this site who are prepared to say he is.

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33 minutes ago, Smokey said:

Hilarious people talking about putting people on ignore because they don't agree with their opinion on a forum. 

I might well have missed it but i don't recall a single post from a poster writing that they plan to put another poster on ignore because they they don't agree with their opinion. Happy to be corrected with any such examples.

A pet hate of mine is posters writing factually incorrect comments, either because of comprehension issues (not so bad, after all you can't get too annoyed if someone is not that sharp),  deliberately misconstruing other's comments (worse) or plain untruths to push an agenda (even worse).

Not suggesting you fall into one of those categories Smokey as as i noted perhaps i missed the multiple posts where posters have talked about putting people 'on ignore because they don't agree with their opinion' (your post say people so i assume you have more than one example).

 

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35 minutes ago, Smokey said:

Yes I'm ex-Army myself, and I can tell you that a change of leadership at the top level of a unit or regiment is almost immediately felt at the bottom. If you reverse engineer the scenario, you must conclude that Peter Jackson had nothing to do with the improvement to our on-field performance. 

I think that Pert in this scenario would be more a President or Prime Minister and the unit or regiment could be likened to Goodwin  & Mahoney. So can I infer that the more removed from day to day management the less impact?

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27 minutes ago, drysdale demon said:

Well I am ex-army as well and I don't there is any comparison between sporting clubs ad the army style of leadership.

People who sit in their basement playing Call of Duty don’t count.

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25 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

People who sit in their basement playing Call of Duty don’t count.

Disrespectful comment about someone who served our country. 

Anyhoo. Comparing the hierarchy of defence and a sporting club is like comparing apples to oranges (both delicious but that’s about it). 

Edited by Ethan Tremblay
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6 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

People who sit in their basement playing Call of Duty don’t count.

Take a month off for ignoring my general warning and a private warning about personal attacks. You're not the only one doing it but you are the only one who I've warned privately that has ignored the warning.

I don't usually make moderating public but I hope this serves as a warning to others who think that they can blatantly disregard the rules.

I get no pleasure out of this and this isn't a power trip. I let many things go through to the keeper but let that be a warning.

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Thats about as likeable as if AVB was suddenly available.

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44 minutes ago, ManDee said:

I think that Pert in this scenario would be more a President or Prime Minister and the unit or regiment could be likened to Goodwin  & Mahoney. So can I infer that the more removed from day to day management the less impact?

Perhaps this is a good interpretation. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Pert has been pretty active in various FD engagements as per his interview yeah? I think he said he was just there to observe, but that may be the contentious part. Perhaps he's doing more than just "observing". Who knows. Again, we all know with certainty each way or the other equally, being that we don't really. 
 

Again, it's clear my point was misunderstood by many, which is probably my fault for not being concise enough and I accept that. I'm not attempting to directly compare the hierarchies of military units and football clubs, simply highlighting the fact that top end changes can have swift and meaningful changes right through ANY organisation, and I used the military as an example of that. I remain on the fence to whether Pert is accountable in any way and to what degree, I'm simply open to the possibility that his presence could already be having a negative effect on something or other. In this time of great calamity, there should be no stone left unturned I say. 

Edited by Smokey
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57 minutes ago, binman said:

I might well have missed it but i don't recall a single post from a poster writing that they plan to put another poster on ignore because they they don't agree with their opinion. Happy to be corrected with any such examples.

A pet hate of mine is posters writing factually incorrect comments, either because of comprehension issues (not so bad, after all you can't get too annoyed if someone is not that sharp),  deliberately misconstruing other's comments (worse) or plain untruths to push an agenda (even worse).

Not suggesting you fall into one of those categories Smokey as as i noted perhaps i missed the multiple posts where posters have talked about putting people 'on ignore because they don't agree with their opinion' (your post say people so i assume you have more than one example).

 

Fair enough, maybe I misread the room. I will admit I don't always read every single post in a thread so if this is the case then that's on me. 

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1 hour ago, drysdale demon said:

Well I am ex-army as well and I don't there is any comparison between sporting clubs ad the army style of leadership.

Drysdale and Smokey, if you have not done so I recommend you read Ross McMullins book on Pompey Elliott. There are in fact two books, the first written a few years ago is a biography of the great man, and, the second, written in the last year or so, is  a brilliant and informative narrative containing his diary entries.

He was a hell of a man, soldier and general. If you doubt the impact of leadership on the  battlefield you must read this book, particularly the latest book based on his diary entries of his account of his time on the Western Front. 

He was a tough, inforgiving bast....who clashed with other officers particularly British generals and commanding officers, a person who demanded total obedience from his men......but his battalion was one apart from all others because as well as a brilliant tactician, his men simply loved him. He did not hide from battle like so many officers and generals, but commanded his men from the front.

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