Post Game: Rd 5 v St. Kilda

[Binmans PA 26,492]

Gawn is very Melbourne too. Up one year, down the next. He's been terrible this year and was one of our worst today.

He's also one of the loudest talkers off field. 

[Mental Demons 136]

 

Edited April 20, 2019 by Deehumanizing
still learning how it works

[buck_nekkid 5,553]

That was diabolical and deplorable.

We are the best contested ball team in the clomp - except we are not

We are the best clearance team in the comp - except we are not.

Key problems:

Skills - Simply not up to standard.

Game plan - ineffective

Forward 50 entries and play - completely underwhelming.  No crumbles, unable to lock the ball in 

Defence - broken.  The zone is dead.  The number of times they ran off us to set up goals was terrifying

We were beaten in all phases of the game.  All of them

Confidence is so low at the moment.  Decision making is appalling.

Outcoached.  We slowed them in the first half, then they just ran around us. All the attributes that Goody prides us on were simply not there

We did not run for players, give them options, provide overlaps or lead up marks of quality.

Some significant player issues at the moment.  Half the list are not up to it or ready.  I have been an optimist, but at 4 qtr time, I could see our season on the way out the door.  There is going to have to be some magic dust sprinkled around to turn this frog into a prince.

 

Edited April 20, 2019 by buck_nekkid

[dazzledavey36 49,334]

ReHore was our best defender. Kudos to him, hes been Brilliant the past 2 weeks and hes proved me wrong. 

Hibberd and Lewis, time to retire now.

We have a lot of junk footballers on our list. I have now accepted we wont make finals. Coaching needs a huge overhaul ala what Richmond did at the end of 2017.

Need to be really aggressive this coming trade period.

[DV8 2,271]

29 minutes ago, S_T said:

There’s a story in the good book about the wise man building their house on the rock and the foolish man building their house in the sand. When the wind and waves come, the house on the sand falls and the house in the rock stands firm. 

Substitute “House” for confidence and the MFC is the foolish man. Time after time we get confidence from the wrong things (the win against Sydney most recently) and when the heat inevitably comes, we crumble. We’ve been doing it for years and it’s been done by our on field leaders. Until this is fixed we’ll continually underperform. 

Well,  If you change the words "rock"  to  'the Hills',   and the word  "sand"  to  'the beach'...    then it would be more accurate,  S_T.

 

28 minutes ago, Soidee said:

Tonight we saw the Melbourne Brand 

No we didn't...  we witnessed the gamestyle come undone.

There is nothing wrong with contested footy...  and if we go one-on-one,  it will be all contested footy.    Contested footy IS our brand.

[Sargent Shultz 267]

10 minutes ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

OK, so what exactly is wrong with the coolaid our coaches are serving? 

They want to play a high defence where our whole team pressures in the forward half. 

Why is this bad?  Because it means there are 36 players in our forward line when we are in attack.  This makes it virtually impossible to get a player in the clear for a mark or an unpressured shot on goal.  It also means that there are no players in the opposition's fifty, meaning that when they bring the ball out of our forward zone they have miles of open space to work in, meaning that it is very easy for them to get in space to take a mark or have an unpressured shot on goal. 

They want our forward 50 entries to be in the supposedly high percentage area 20-30m our directly in front of the goals. 

Why is this bad?  Firstly because it makes us horribly predictable, meaning that oppositions defensive units can set up around this area with players waiting for the spillage and runners ready for the handball receive allowing them to easily run the ball back out of our attacking 50 if we don't take a contested mark.  Secondly, because we don't have any forwards capable of taking big contested marks.  Thirdly, because our forwards lack cohesion and teamwork, and so often go for the same ball and spoil each other, saving their opponents the trouble. 

They want everyone to win the contested ball. 

Why is this bad?  Because unlike when you're eight years old, in the grownup game you can't have a mob of players charging around following the ball wherever it goes.  We repeatedly see our mids all diving in to try to win the ball, get in each others' way and cause fumbles.  Meanwhile, the opposition have two or three in the scrum against our entire midfield who often don't even try to win the ball but just knock it around and try to punch it to the outside where we have nobody and they can get an easy takeaway.  The absolute lack of anything resembling team acts by anyone in our side makes this problem worse.  If our players were working for each other rather than all trying to win the ball themselves, we could use those extra numbers to create space for one or two people to get the ball.  I don't remember the last time I saw a Melbourne player shepherding for a teammate, but it must have been before Goodwin took over. 

Yes we have some skill errors.  Yes, the umpiring hurt us today.  But make no mistake, it's the coaching that is causing these problems. 

Spot on

[Soidee 1,496]

Crisis time!!  None of our so called A graders are performing.  NONE!!  They look slow, confused, devoid of confidence.  Coach must get some talent around him.  They are all failing miserably and frankly supporters have had a gutful and deserve much better.

[Earl Hood 5,821]

10 minutes ago, A F said:

I agree it's system based and almost all about our coaching. Our forwards don't lead up at the ball and we don't lower our eyes enough entering forward 50. Collingwood are showing the way a dominant midfield (which we possess too) can play control football and wipe sides off the park. 

I find it staggering that we still haven't worked out how to play the G or against control footy. Our aggressive press is still just as ridiculous as it was last year and must go.

I love Hibbo but he's done. I don't think we've got a dumber footballer on our list. He can't win 1v1s anymore and he literally has one game: bomb it high and long. Lewis and Jones were both done last year too.

The missing ingredient to this side, as has been discussed ad nuseum, is pace. We need pace off our back flanks, on our wings and in our forward half.

I think we might need some fresh ideas in the coaching ranks too.

Hold onto your first bloody draft pick this time because it'll be another top 5 pick. We're not getting off the foot of the ladder this year.

And talking of draft picks we have coughed up multiple first rounders for highly rated defenders but have just been taken to the cleaners by a well organised Saints defence made up of newbies and triers apart from Geary. No stars there today but they totally out played us as a very competent defensive unit, working as one. 

Hmmm maybe at least one first rounder for a talented outside runner instead! 

 

[Binmans PA 26,492]

34 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

ReHore was our best defender. Kudos to him, hes been Brilliant the past 2 weeks and hes proved me wrong. 

Hibberd and Lewis, time to retire now.

We have a lot of junk footballers on our list. I have now accepted we wont make finals. Coaching needs a huge overhaul ala what Richmond did at the end of 2017.

Need to be really aggressive this coming trade period.

Agree with all of this, except when it comes to trading. Do not trade out first rounders this off season, but if we can get some quick role players into our side, that could make a big difference.

Isn't it ridiculous that we play in a prelim final one year and then by Round 5 we're already talking about the next season. [censored] Melbourne Football Club.

[Watts the matter 1,235]

How the coaches have let Clayton Oliver continue with the rubbish week after week this season is astonishing. He needs to hold the ball when he gets it and then chose an option, time after time he will try and do an instant 1m handball which is of no advantage to the team. All season he has been hacking the ball when kicking, his first kick where we got a goal was a prime example, terrible play despite the Preuss goal. 

He is not even close to the 10 best players in the comp which a bunch 'experts' had him in at the start of the season.

Fritsch and Hibberd absolutely awful and the and the two of the main offenders leaving their man for no reason when there is no cover out the back and they will not impact the ball carrier. How many coaches do you need and you still can't get something like this right.

Season done and despite terrible list management I still think we will bounce back hard next season with a few key inclusions into the team. 

[lucifer 119]

Long time reader - rare poster. 

I go to every game in Melbourne (except Geelong because f that). I've been there through the all the highs and lows, I sat through every week of the Neeld years (god help us all). I'm almost as disappointed with where we are now as I was then. At least in those years you expected to lose every week because our list was a shambles. How does a team go from a PF to third bottom after 5 rounds? 

I've been a massive critic of Oscar McDonald (and to a lesser extent Frost). It doesn't matter what defenders you have back there at the moment, the mid-field is diabolically lazy and slow and makes their job impossible. There is no outside run. They are one dimensional plodders. There is no plan B. The ball comes out of our forward line in waves and stays in our backline like we are moving in quicksand. 

What the hell has happened to Hibberd? His run and carry is non-existent or on the odd occasion he decides to take off, he looks like he's running on the spot and bombs it to the wrong option. I don't mind the Hunt up forward experiment, but he struggled today and doesn't chase hard enough when he doesn't have the ball.  The lack of support from our mid-field to help the defence is embarrassing as is the forward line pressure (don't even get me started on T Mac. It's not worth it, he's just horribly out of form). But if the purpose of playing Spargo and C Wagner is their forward pressure (which is presumably the point, otherwise i'm not sure) then Goodwin is kidding himself. Delivery into the forward line is a disgrace and has been since round 1. 

It is beyond me how Spargo kept his spot - even though we won last week.  Corey Wagner isn't AFL standard, and instead of playing Garlett for one of these two or even Lockhart, we go with Spargo and C Wagner. It's like Goodwin has stamped Garlett's papers, and don't get me wrong, he doesn't win us today's game, but regardless he makes the opposition nervous because of his pace. Spargo looks lost.  You could add another 10 paragraphs slamming the players but what's the point? We're all shaking our heads about how we can go backwards so far. Does it seem to anyone else that as a team we are just terribly unfit? What does that say about a) the preseason and the application of the players, particularly those not on modified programs and b) our fitness staff? Goodwin has just said in his press conference we have players in form in the VFL...who are they? They got beaten by a team of under 18's today. 

My final note - gees the recruiting of May & KK is looking like a massive error at this stage. Injuries are unfortunate, but when May turns up to training out of shape, builds his load too quickly, injures himself, comes back, get suspended, comes back again and injures his groin and is out for how long...it's gone from a 2-3 weeks injury to still another 2-4 according to the MFC website. If it is worst case another 4 weeks he will have missed 7 games with a groin injury. How do we pay pick 5 for a bloke whose level of professionalism is to turn up in that state, and why was the club not clear on expectations? And if the club was clear on expectations why wasn't there a club imposed sanction for his lack of condition. It's all good for Goodwin, Lewis etc to come out in the media and say it's unacceptable, but where's the accountability? KK has concussion issues, gets a late knock in the Essendon game and what we're fed from the club varies depending on the week. Ok, maybe a week to week proposition, it just seems odd. When he did play he seemed unfit and out of touch. I am genuinely unsure if he was in the team for the GC Suns at the end of 2018 or not, so apologies if he hasn't played for an extended period of time and I've missed it. But, gees, it looks a massive fail at this stage. Did the club not sit down with May and make the expectations clear about what shape he was to come back in? Again, sorry if I've missed this on another thread. 

We will get beaten by 100 points next week. Reiwoldt will be back and probably Cotchin. Can you imagine Lynch and Reiwoldt working in a forward line with the lack of defensive pressure we apply. God help us. 

Edited April 20, 2019 by lucifer

[Binmans PA 26,492]

33 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

And talking of draft picks we have coughed up multiple first rounders for highly rated defenders but have just been taken to the cleaners by a well organised Saints defence made up of newbies and triers apart from Geary. No stars there today but they totally out played us as a very competent defensive unit, working as one. 

Hmmm maybe at least one first rounder for a talented outside runner instead! 

 

And those two defenders we've paid a high price for can't get on the park.

I hope 2020 is our year, because we've paid a lot of Jake and Steven, and they've still never played with each other.

[Soidee 1,496]

2 minutes ago, DV8 said:

Well,  If you change the words "rock"  to  'the Hills',   and the word  "sand"  to  'the beach'...    then it would be more accurate,  S_T.

 

No we didn't...  we witnessed the gamestyle come undone.

There is nothing wrong with contested footy...  and if we go one-on-one,  it will be all contested footy.    Contested footy IS our brand.

I was been sarcastic!  Our brand is contested football but it’s useless if we are slow as water buffalo in quicksand.

[Roger Mellie 3,601]

FMD what a come down on last year.

We're not functioning as a team and the coaching staff is putting blind faith into half fit players, retirees and plodders. While other teams were loading up on speed in the draft (and last year's) we're loading the team with slow inside mids. It's all well and good to start at the contest and work your way out, but the said 'out' are vfl standard, plodders and/or retirees.  We've been well and truly found out and it's time to stop trotting out the same set-up.

Hibberd was just horrible for the fifth week in a row but we're not blessed with too many options. It's not fair to single him out but FFS, get him out of the team or try him somewhere else. Lewis.... good grief.

What little buy-in we had is likely gone after that showing.

I have absolutely no answers (with the options available) but I can see clearly that we rely heavily on last year's game plan and the unflinching belief that strength at the contest will conquer all. It's not and we cant keep hoping it will. We have no out from the contest at this time.

 

[Sargent Shultz 267]

From the herald sun- sums up the issue- again, what worked in 2018 is not working anymore

[DubDee 21,264]

1 hour ago, Win4theAges said:

[censored] Poor pre season, [censored] poor trading, [censored] poor coaching staff, [censored] poor hierarchy, [censored] poor prelim review.

Everything is [censored] poor.

 

This pretty much sums it up

[WERRIDEE 5,248]

Firstly I'm gonna be the bad guy and say Jetta is finished time to retire. Lewis retire now. Jones retire at year's end. Hore and the Wagner's not up to it, Spargo is a joke. The club has to rebuld with more skill and pace. I hope pick 4 is good because that's the highest we will finish. PRETENDERS

[Binmans PA 26,492]

41 minutes ago, lucifer said:

Long time reader - rare poster. 

I go to every game in Melbourne (except Geelong because f that). I've been there through the all the highs and lows, I sat through every week of the Neeld years (god help us all). I'm almost as disappointed with where we are now as I was then. At least in those years you expected to lose every week because our list was a shambles. How does a team go from a PF to third bottom after 5 rounds? 

I've been a massive critic of Oscar McDonald (and to a lesser extent Frost). It doesn't matter what defenders you have back there at the moment, the mid-field is diabolically lazy and slow and makes their job impossible. There is no outside run. They are one dimensional plodders. There is no plan B. The ball comes out of our forward line in waves and stays in our backline like we are moving in quicksand. 

What the hell has happened to Hibberd? His run and carry is non-existent or on the odd occasion he decides to take off, he looks like he's running on the spot and bombs it to the wrong option. I don't mind the Hunt up forward experiment, but he struggled today and doesn't chase hard enough when he doesn't have the ball.  The lack of support from our mid-field to help the defence is embarrassing as is the forward line pressure (don't even get me started on T Mac. It's not worth it, he's just horribly out of form). But if the purpose of playing Spargo and C Wagner is their forward pressure (which is presumably the point, otherwise i'm not sure) then Goodwin is kidding himself. Delivery into the forward line is a disgrace and has been since round 1. 

It is beyond me how Spargo kept his spot - even though we won last week.  Corey Wagner isn't AFL standard, and instead of playing Garlett for one of these two or even Lockhart, we go with Spargo and C Wagner. It's like Goodwin has stamped Garlett's papers, and don't get me wrong, he doesn't win us today's game, but regardless he makes the opposition nervous because of his pace. Spargo looks lost.  You could add another 10 paragraphs slamming the players but what's the point? We're all shaking our heads about how we can go backwards so far. Does it seem to anyone else that as a team we are just terribly unfit? What does that say about a) the preseason and the application of the players, particularly those on modified programs and b) our fitness staff? Goodwin has just said in his press conference we have players in form in the VFL...who are they? They got beaten by a team of under 18's today. 

My final note - gees the recruiting of May & KK is looking like a massive error at this stage. Injuries are unfortunate, but when May turns up to training out of shape, builds his load too quickly, injures himself, comes back, get suspended, comes back again and injures his groin and is out for how long...it's gone from a 2-3 weeks injury to still another 2-4 according to the MFC website. If it is worst case another 4 weeks he will have missed 7 games with a groin injury. How do we pay pick 5 for a bloke whose level of professionalism is to turn up in that state, and why was the club not clear on expectations? And if the club was clear on expectations why wasn't there a club imposed sanction for his lack of condition. It's all good for Goodwin, Lewis etc to come out in the media and say it's unacceptable, but where's the accountability? KK has concussion issues, gets a late knock in the Essendon game and what we're fed from the club varies depending on the week. Ok, maybe a week to week proposition, it just seems odd. When he did play he seemed unfit and out of touch. I am genuinely unsure if he was in the team for the GC Suns at the end of 2018 or not, so apologies if he hasn't played for an extended period of time and I've missed it. But, gees, it looks a massive fail at this stage. Did the club not sit down with May and make the expectations clear about what shape he was to come back in? Again, sorry if I've missed this on another thread. 

We will get beaten by 100 points next week. Reiwoldt will be back and probably Cotchin. Can you imagine Lynch and Reiwoldt working in a forward line with the lack of defensive pressure we apply. God help us. 

Great post. Post more regularly, please.

I'm as despondent as you are. I was saying today that I'd liken this year more to 2012 under Neeld. We're so [censored] predictable, we play an outdated game style (chaos is dead) and our players are now completely bereft of confidence.

Yes, our midfield is poor defensively, but our defence is so messy and poorly set up. We [censored] ourselves whenever the ball is on the deck; we fail to spoil; we're positionally poor in most contests; and we rarely even halve contests. Not to mention, our defence has close to no run and carry, except for an occasional run by from Hibberd (who kicks it high and long to no one) or Salem, who is one of our better players these days, but feels wasted off a half back to me.

Edited April 20, 2019 by A F

[Gator 16,921]

19 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

He has had 6 months already. 

Clearly has backed his Gameplan against pace since last year, which has failed dismally since last September 

I get you disagree about Goody, so no need to respond.  I don't want a table tennis match.  

Derp

[lucifer 119]

2 minutes ago, WERRIDEE said:

Firstly I'm gonna be the bad guy and say Jetta is finished time to retire. Lewis retire now. Jones retire at year's end. Hore and the Wagner's not up to it, Spargo is a joke. The club has to rebuld with more skill and pace. I hope pick 4 is good because that's the highest we will finish. PRETENDERS

I have to disagree re Hore. I think he is absolutely up to it. 

[What 18,810]

Dean Kent was great today.  A real shame, was always one of my favorite players. 

If he can stay on the park (big if) the Saints will have gotten a steal.

[Sir Why You Little 34,924]

7 minutes ago, Sargent Shultz said:

From the herald sun- sums up the issue- again, what worked in 2018 is not working anymore

More will be added in 4 days....

[DV8 2,271]

23 minutes ago, Superunknown said:

EXACTLY! Why would goody get 4 more if things were not tracking on track 

Stability...  he showed he can coach last year.   And the players were listening.

 

But the trouble now is injuries to our elite running players...  and poor form because of the changed nature of 2019 AFL footy.

Our structures are no longer holding up,  as they require ANB and TMC and Viney and Jones,  and all the other young midfield brigade,  working as one.

Viney Jones, TMc,  are all playing injured to some degree,  and IMO Gawn is not playing as well as last year,  getting around the ground.

Our half-forwards aren't helping much in defence, and we are stuffed.

 

Maybe the footy gods are looking after us,  before we ruin everything, failing at the finish line... because of not getting the talent we require.  And  everyone can see we need to get the quality running players thru the Mid ground.

.

[Juicebox 628]

I used to hurt after a loss. 

But I'm just too tired and confused to genuinely take this crap to heart anymore.

[DeeSpencer 23,483]

11 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

ReHore was our best defender. Kudos to him, hes been Brilliant the past 2 weeks and hes proved me wrong. 

Hibberd and Lewis, time to retire now.

We have a lot of junk footballers on our list. I have now accepted we wont make finals. Coaching needs a huge overhaul ala what Richmond did at the end of 2017.

Need to be really aggressive this coming trade period.

I'd say serviceable not brilliant for Hore today. He's still off the pace when it comes to using the ball. Instead of taking the easy first option he puts himself at risk of turning it over and then often telegraphs his decision. The little stutter steps then loop on his kicks in uncontested situations aren't helpful at all.

Killed a few contests and is a nice interceptor when given the chance but I was hoping for more attacking drive and better defensive ability on the deck, he's very easy to get around.