Jump to content


Recommended Posts

Exactly the type of player we need, but not at that price. He’s more potential that output, but I’m confident that in a better environment he’d flourish. He’s a serious talent. But st that price, pass. That’s established superstar money, and established superstar he ain’t.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 748
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I get your point, but as clubs say, we have to back ourselves to make him happy. We have to create an environment that he is happy. Carlton have shown themselves to be ruthless, both in what they are

Is this the same Jack Martin that begged and pleaded to be a Bomber this time last year? Unless there’s a clear threat that he’d sit out the season, or would be a toxic member of the playing grou

I'll tell you why it's a salary issue, he's reportedly looking for $650-700k per season. What has he done to earn that,  nothing but potential and he's not a ball winning mid or key position play

Posted Images

3 minutes ago, Matsuo Basho said:

Based on his numbers over a five year period he is worth a second round pick and half that amount of money, at best.

Good B+ grade player who would suit our needs but would not get into a bidding war for him. 

Matsuo Basho, we have a problem - I completely agree with you! :o

Practically word for word. I'm sure this worries you every bit as much as it worries me!

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Little Goffy said:

Matsuo Basho, we have a problem - I completely agree with you! :o

Practically word for word. I'm sure this worries you every bit as much as it worries me!

LittleGoffy - peace in the Middle East is possible  

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

I still say he's going to get to Hawthorn. 

Right - and I bet none of the Hawks' fans give a flying what he costs. None of the other teams seem to be bothered by salary-cap concerns, I don't know why it's such a big issue with us in comparison. Give money to whoever wants to come to us who will make us better. We can cut our list to 38 if need be. Buy a flag and then sort out sustainable cap-practices from there. 

  • Like 2
  • Love 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/8/2019 at 6:48 AM, Skuit said:

Right - and I bet none of the Hawks' fans give a flying what he costs. None of the other teams seem to be bothered by salary-cap concerns, I don't know why it's such a big issue with us in comparison. Give money to whoever wants to come to us who will make us better. We can cut our list to 38 if need be. Buy a flag and then sort out sustainable cap-practices from there. 

The Hawks manage their cap really well.  They are going to shed Roughead and maybe Smith at the end of the year which will free up plenty of cash to pay Martin. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...
11 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Maybe as well as, but not instead of...

 

 

 

Im not saying Martin is better then Hill, I'm talking about realistic possibilities

Both are very talented players.

The point I think you're missing is one is contracted and potential B&F winner, while the other is mooted to want out and won't cost as much and is just as talented.

I don't know Martins contract status (will need to clarify) but Martin will be a lot cheaper then Hill.

I think Martin is a more realistic trade target

 

Stats are irrelevant - What do they actually mean? Are you trying to negotiate his contract?

 

Edited by Unleash Hell
Link to post
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Unleash Hell said:

Im not saying Martin is better then Hill, I'm talking about realistic possibilities

Both are very talented players.

The point I think you're missing is one is contracted and potential B&F winner, while the other is mooted to want out and won't cost as much and is just as talented.

I don't know Martins contract status (will need to clarify) but Martin will be a lot cheaper then Hill.

I think Martin is a more realistic trade target

Stats are irrelevant - What do they actually mean? Are you trying to negotiate his contract?

The point is we don't need more average utility players more than we need outside runners.

The point of the stats is the uncontested possessions and metres gained, they would be the most important statistical indicators for our needs, so they are not irrelevant at all.

I'm not against going for Martin, but he's not a similar player to Hill IMO, so I don't see why we would go for him instead of Hill.

What makes you think Hill is not a realistic possibility?

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Lord Nev said:

The point is we don't need more average utility players more than we need outside runners.

The point of the stats is the uncontested possessions and metres gained, they would be the most important statistical indicators for our needs, so they are not irrelevant at all.

I'm not against going for Martin, but he's not a similar player to Hill IMO, so I don't see why we would go for him instead of Hill.

What makes you think Hill is not a realistic possibility?

Martin is an outside runner - he may not have produced the same as Hill (who has played in good sides compared to Martin)

Martin has a ton of talent and would be a perfect fit - He is easily better than any outside runner we have, plus we have the GC connections here as well.

Hill is clearly a superior player at the moment but with a superior player comes a high price. I'm not saying we are not targeting Hill, Im also not saying he won't move.... But he will cost a lot, he's' contracted to Fero for another 2 ears and is one of their best players. And if you're trading for Hill you want to be positive he's not going to have a change of heart either.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Unleash Hell said:

Martin is an outside runner - he may not have produced the same as Hill (who has played in good sides compared to Martin)

Martin has a ton of talent and would be a perfect fit - He is easily better than any outside runner we have, plus we have the GC connections here as well.

Hill is clearly a superior player at the moment but with a superior player comes a high price. I'm not saying we are not targeting Hill, Im also not saying he won't move.... But he will cost a lot, he's' contracted to Fero for another 2 ears and is one of their best players. And if you're trading for Hill you want to be positive he's not going to have a change of heart either.

Fair enough mate, I'm not against it and agree with a lot of what you're saying. Just personally, I would rather do what we need to to get Hill as I'm not sold on Martin as an outisde runner, and think he plays his best footy at half back (which might also be handy for us anyway). That's the reason I posted that stat comparison, to illustrate the massive difference particularly in uncontested possessions.

FWIW Martin is out of contract and has "put off talks", so he'd definitely be very gettable.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Fair enough mate, I'm not against it and agree with a lot of what you're saying. Just personally, I would rather do what we need to to get Hill as I'm not sold on Martin as an outisde runner, and think he plays his best footy at half back (which might also be handy for us anyway). That's the reason I posted that stat comparison, to illustrate the massive difference particularly in uncontested possessions.

FWIW Martin is out of contract and has "put off talks", so he'd definitely be very gettable.

 

Cheers - thanks for the update re contract

Yeh I think Martin is very gettable and probably only a early second round (pure guess) 

I agree with you're point re quality of player, Hill is superior (maybe even his injury prone brother as well). One of the problems at looking at stats alone is the quality of the sides. Clearly Freo are travelling better than GC at the moment, that helps the stats look a lot better.

I would love us to keep pick 2/3 and target Langdon and Martin. Develop some more of what we have - Hunt, KK, Baker etc

I think those simple moves make us a lot better side.

Edited by Unleash Hell
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Unleash Hell said:

Cheers - thanks for the update re contract

Yeh I think Martin is very gettable and probably only a early second round (pure guess) 

I agree with you're point re quality of player, Hill is superior (maybe even his injury prone brother as well). One of the problems at looking at stats alone is the quality of the sides. Clearly Freo are travelling better than GC at the moment, that helps the stats look a lot better.

I would love us to keep pick 2/3 and target Langdon and Martin.

I think those simple moves make us a lot better side.

Yep, I'd definitely be ok with keeping that first pick and getting Langdon and Martin. If we could also manage to pick up a quality free agent then that's a reasonably successful offseason IMO.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Maybe as well as, but not instead of...

 

 

Screen Shot 2019-08-09 at 8.09.31 am.png

Interesting stats. I disagree with those who dismiss them entirely or who rely on them utterly. But this comparison is fascinating. It suggests Martin is the more complete player able to win his own ball as well as finish. Look at the balance between his contested/uncontested possessions,  and also disposal efficiency suggesting a player who is where the heat is.

Hill however, looks to be the better finisher: different contested:uncontested ratio, fewer disposal errors due to playing a linking role and on the outside.

If these criteria were all you were relying on, given our lack of quality finishing, you'd have to go Hill.

Link to post
Share on other sites

J Martin's season averages: 18 disposals @ 61% efficiency, 4 turnovers & .5 goals per game, 3.8 score involvements

B Hill's season averages: 25 disposals @ 68% efficiency,  5 turnovers & .3 goals per game, 6.1 score involvements

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Demonland changed the title to The Jack Martin Thread
10 minutes ago, Laughing Goat said:

J Martin's season averages: 18 disposals @ 61% efficiency, 4 turnovers & .5 goals per game, 3.8 score involvements

B Hill's season averages: 25 disposals @ 68% efficiency,  5 turnovers & .3 goals per game, 6.1 score involvements

Martin has been dropped this round too. Not due to talent but I’m sure doesn’t care to be at the Gold Coast so his numbers have dropped. At another team where his interest will be up, except his numbers to rise dramatically 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

He clearly doesn't want to be there after asking for a trade last season and being denied. He's had a poor year due to this and it shows in those numbers. Go back two years and he kicked 25 goals and averaged 19 disposals. That's essentially Petracca's output, but as an outside version and in a far worse team. Get him out of that basket case environment up there and he would flourish. I still believe he's got the potential to be one, if not the best outside midfielder in the game. Can also play forward and hit the scoreboard (10+ career games with 3 goals or more). If we can land him for a second rounder, I'd say it's well worth the risk. 

Get it done Dees!

Edited by Lord Travis
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Yep, I'd definitely be ok with keeping that first pick and getting Langdon and Martin. If we could also manage to pick up a quality free agent then that's a reasonably successful offseason IMO.

Have to go to the draft with our pick 2, we french connectioned our swaping of pick 2 at the end of 2013, lets not make the same mistake again please Dees.

It would have to be an unbelievable offer to prize away pick 2 eg. Pick 2 for Brad Hill, Ed Langdon and their second rounder pick (28-30). Those mongrels would never take that.

The club may never be in this position again in holding such a close range pick in the top 10.

After 6 years people are still talking about the Josh Kelly trade, hope the club has learnt from 2013.

Edited by Win4theAges
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles

    WASH, RINSE, SPIN, REPEAT! by George On The Outer

    Although the Demons got over the line in their must win final round game against the hapless Bombers, they ensured it was Groundhog Day for their supporters who well remember what happened three years ago (although, this time they at least enjoyed the success of victory). Melbourne had its customary start dominating play and having plenty of chances in front of goal, only to find itself down on the scoreboard at the first change. Inaccurate kicking, particularly from set shots would have pu

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    THE LUCK OF THE DRAW by Whispering Jack

    The long awaited clash between Melbourne and Essendon is almost upon us. Thirty-seven rounds of AFL football have passed by since the two clubs met on a balmy early April night last year in a game that produced a high scoring shootout at the MCG with the Bombers prevailing by 18 points. It was their only meeting for 2019 and happened at a time when the pandemic was something on the far distant horizon. Several months later when the 2019 season ended, the AFL issued the first of its fixtures

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    THERE’S STILL A HEARTBEAT by George on the Outer

    When bottom side Adelaide scrapped together a win over the Giants last week, a tiny glimmer of hope opened up for the Demons’ finals chances. The patient was in intensive care but not quite finished — there was a faint pulse, a heart beating ever so slightly but was it enough when two more wins and other results were needed to fall their way? The first step was the resuscitation of a team that had lost its last two matches against sides then sitting fifteenth and sixteenth on the ladder. On

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports 1

    THE FINAL HUMILIATION by The Oracle

    On Sunday, the Melbourne Football Club that won three consecutive games by in excess of 50 points last month returns to the Gabba, the scene of the last of those victories which was a 56 point drubbing of Collingwood. The Demons got off to a good start and won every quarter with a ruthless and powerful brand of football. They kicked 16 goals that day, their accuracy in front of goal a tribute to the skills the put on display throughout the afternoon and evening. In the four matches playe

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    GIVEN THE OLD HEAVE HO’ by George on the Outer

    Fremantle gave Melbourne the old heave ho’ from playing finals in 2020, in conditions that the Demons yet again failed to handle.   With the whole season on the line and the need to win to stay in contention for finals, what the fans saw was much the same as they have been witnessing so many times before — a complete debacle and capitulation against a side that sat 15th on the ladder before the game.     Promises made after the loss to the 16th placed Sydney Swans were rendered h

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    GETTING THE HEAVE HO by Bananabender

    The ute barely made it up to Cairns in time for us to check into the motel, fling a cane toad out the bathroom. and head over to Cazaly’s Stadium where we took up our position on the wing. There, we saw a completely different Melbourne to the one we watched on the screen only a few nights earlier from Alice Springs. This lot wore similar colours and Maxy dominated the ruck but the similarities ended there - the Demons were simply dreadful against the Swans. They started sluggishly, were spe

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    A CLANGER IN CAIRNS by George on the Outer

    Having fought back into finals contention, the Demons had it all before them when facing a lowly Sydney in Cairns.  But in typical Melbourne fashion, they threw away the opportunity to cement their spot in the eight with a clanger of a game.  Right from the start, there was little to enthuse from the Melbourne players, who appeared to think that they only had to turn up, enjoy the North Queensland sun, and take away the four points.  Compared with the furious ground wide pressure of the

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    TEN MINUTES LATE by Whispering Jack

    The late Norm Smith, who played in four Melbourne premierships and coached another six, was a strong disciplinarian. Known as the Red Fox for his auburn hair and his cunning, Smith was a man of a different age to the here and now. Born during the Great War, he survived the Spanish Flu Pandemic, grew up in depression times, played mostly through the Second World War and its aftermath and coached in a period of rebuilding and recovery to a time of prosperity. Smith’s success was built on team

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    SAINTS HELL IN DEES HEAVEN by GOTO

    The last of this year’s indigenous games was played in the red heart of the country and could well have determined Melbourne’s finals aspirations but it was St Kilda that had its top four hopes dashed after a nail-biting finish in Alice Springs which saw them unceremoniously marched out of the position in football heaven occupied by them for much of this season. It all came down in the end to a goal-line decision as to whether a freakish shot by Christian Petracca was touched and the goal u

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    DO OR DIE by The Oracle

    Melbourne is, not for the first time, paying for lapses in matches whereby the club leaks multiple goals without answer and which usually cost the club in those all-important eight point games as it did last week against the Western Bulldogs which replaced the Demons in the AFL top eight. And this week, they come up against a team that reputedly plays in the same mode as the Bulldogs but has been able to prevail over better opponents than Melbourne. It’s not that the Demons are out of form

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    GIVE THE DOGS A BONE by George on the Outer

    The winner of the game is in the top eight and the loser out. Had Melbourne won, it would have consigned the Bulldogs season to the scrapheap given their remaining fixture which still includes a bye. The Demons led at half-time but they gave the Dogs a bone which was willingly accepted — they notched 6 goals in the third quarter and dumped the Demons out of the eight. This game simply saw all the bad habits return for Melbourne players.  When they serve up dinky kicks, dinky handballs, litt

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    FRENZY by Whispering Jack

    The Melbourne Football Club should hand out an award to the person who came up with the concept of the 20 day football frenzy the football world experienced from Round 9 to the completion of Round 12 on Monday. When the AFL fixture was moved into a state of perpetual motion, things changed so quickly that it was difficult to fathom exactly what was happening to the competition but the Demons have been one of the beneficiaries to date. The flogging the team received at the hands of Port Adel

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews


×
×
  • Create New...