Farewell Jesse Hogan

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

1 minute ago, Wiseblood said:

Who says we won't?  I don't believe for a second that we won't get two first rounders (maybe one this year then next year) or at least a first rounder and a player equivalent to a first round pick.  I don't think we need to get too worried about that stuff just yet. Can you really see the club not getting much for him?

I've watched us get screwed while clubs like Hawks and Pies give up junk for players like Omeara, Aish and others...

I see your point. 2 firsts etc etc...

My view, and I've been saying this for a long time now, is that 2 firsts isn't actually enough. It sounds great, but break it down. The two Freo picks are likely 4 and 5 (5 and 6 after Lynch moves)... which isn't enough to get Max King. We would get May and another mid. Or May and a pick. Hell, even IF Max fell to us at 5, he's a 200+cm player... we had Watts and Weed take years to do anything of use, and neither were anything like the value Hogan is. Even if a KP player taken at that age came on, it'd be 5 years from now when we're in a different window. That's IF those picks turn out good at all. Which so often, they don't... especially talls.

Hogan, Weed, TMac... Now becomes TMac, Weed, Preuss... Spare me.

Lever, Omac, Frost now becomes May, Lever, Omac.... An improvement, but not much of one.

I just rate Jesse that highly that even 2 picks, while the going rate, doesn't fill me with enthusiasm.

[drdrake 3,163]

2 minutes ago, Leoncelli_36 said:

We cannot on trade that future pick this season tho can we? My understand is that because we traded a future pick last trade period, we are excluded

As long as we keep a first round pick for next years draft we are ok.  So if we get freos future pick we can keep or trade 1 future first round pick

[Ted Lasso 19,513]

1 minute ago, Demons11 said:

People need to stop comparing other trades.  If Freo had pick 12 only, then they would offer that and next years  first rounder but you are not going to get pick 5 and another first rounder. 

Shattered to lose him but he is not worth 2 picks under 5

Bet you we do, and if that’s not what the club demands they aren’t serious. He’s contracted so freo can pay up or F off 

[Jibroni 5,003]

8 minutes ago, Demons11 said:

If Freo had pick 12 only, then they would offer that and next years  first rounder but you are not going to get pick 5 and another first rounder. 

 

Why not? Crows got two 1sts for Lever with an exchange of later picks.

A recent example would be Pies giving up Pick 7 and future 1st for Treloar.

 

Edited September 25, 2018 by Jibroni

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

3 minutes ago, Demons11 said:

Shattered to lose him but he is not worth 2 picks under 5

You're right. He's worth that and a player.

It all comes down to how you value the guy. Many on here have him as a fly in the ointment who's a distraction and only gets in the way every trade period. The same people say Wiedeman is basically just as good. I'm not with them. I've been watching all his games just like everyone else, and I think he's a generational talent, the best KP forward under 25, and will go down as the best of his era. If you don't see it that way, then I won't argue with you. Hell, you may be right... But if we're talking value, what we're losing, what we stand to gain... Then you have to run an experiment, and imagine the best sub-25 KPF you can imagine in your mind. THEN apply a trade value.

Aside from how we see him though, fair enough, I can't argue.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

25 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Statement from the club

Here we go...

This is your best ever post, well done. 

[Ted Lasso 19,513]

I don’t mind the future pick idea anyways because I suspect freo will have an average year again. 

Get a top 5 pick this year and next year have two first rounders and a strong position to chase a free agent 

[layzie 33,796]

Have to Play hardball with Freo. If they want him enough they have to pay up.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

1 minute ago, stevethemanjordan said:

This is your best ever post, well done. 

Nice to see you posting again big fella!

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Just now, Patches O’houlihan said:

I don’t mind the future pick idea anyways because I suspect freo will have an average year again. 

Get a top 5 pick this year and next year have two first rounders and a strong position to chase a free agent 

Jesse goes to that club with Fyfe still there... their first rounder next year wont be within the first 5. And it won't be a superdraft. Only way that future pick becomes sexy to us is if they bottom out completely and win a spoon. GC will have that covered for the next few years.

[DEE fence 5,007]

Is it just me or am I the only one fantasizing about Hogan being turned into multiple picks and players.

I still think Hogan is a key to our team one day, the next I think he will be Melbourne's Travis Cloke. I had actually seen him as becoming more of a Kouta and that his value as a CHF/Wing (more Jonah Lomu than Robbie (-; ) was in his low flat passes (love his field kicking) and contested marking.

Anyway Jason Taylor and CO have more than proved they have a clue and know what they are doing, I'll back the club, even if it does suck coming a few days after a painful loss..

In terms of what we want, I'm keen on outside speed and skill, I want two game plans, the first we have is a contested game, which I love, but then we need to be able to play a possession game, so am keen on any player that has the latter.

Am not sure about JKH either, I thought his cards were marked but his late run of games suggest he stays, I also think Hunt and Stretch stick around. AM calling time on Lewis or he just plays Casey. Tyson who I rate highly is surplus because after watching him play I have not seen him adapt to any role other than inside mid. I reckon Tyson would be a good fit for the Suns.

Will see, will always regret not seeing Hoges kicking 10 in the Red and the Blue, always felt like a day out was only a game away.

 

 

 

 

[deanox 9,914]

19 minutes ago, Jibroni said:

Freo fans are talking pick 5 and future first for Hogan which seems fair value

 

I'd take 5 and 6, and we return our 2019 first round pick. 

[Dee-licious 1,949]

My issue is I don't see a scenario that we'd be happy with as a club that Freo would be willing to pay. 

1. It has to be a godfather off because it would have to cross his mind he is giving up a premiership and a coleman to go to Freo. Hogan would know it would cost Freo big in terms of picks - picks of which they wont be able to use on midfielders to deliver him the ball. 

2. Freo know that you need more than 1 player down forward. They are aware of their holes and would not want to loose Neale, plus potential top end talent to get one player, even if it is a generational talent.

3. Where do we open the negotiations? They come to us with this year's first, next year's first (which they will hope will not be in the top 10), and we say well you have to pay overs because he is in contract. We need 2 x 1st (2019 & 2020) + a player (Langdon/Apness/Tucker). I'm sure we will ask about Brayshaw and Cera but assume we will be told where to go. 

4. Peter Bell has just been installed as GM. This could go either way - he might want to make a splash and instruct the FD to go after Hogan no matter the cost, or he might not want his first move he make to tie the future of the football club to one player. 

A lot to play out in this space, but cannot see it being done this year. 

[Jibroni 5,003]

3 minutes ago, deanox said:

I'd take 5 and 6, and we return our 2019 first round pick. 

I would as well by I doubt Freo would.

[McQueen 17,864]

47 minutes ago, R.I.P. Troy said:

Love Hogan...but he's worth trading just so all of us don't have to put up with the 'Hogan going home' talk every off season for the next 10 years. ****ing over it!

 

As light-hearted as the intent this post is being made in, it’s actually quite a humane perspective.  

Much like the criticism of Watts and noise it continually generated around the club for his whole career, we have experienced the same with Jesse - albeit for different reasons. 

Eventually, it wears the club, player and supporters down to a point where it’s nothing but a pain in the arse and an unwanted distraction. 

I’d love him to remain but if a very good deal can be achieved now, then let’s just do it so we can all breathe easier. 

[Moonshadow 17,676]

25 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Who says we won't?  I don't believe for a second that we won't get two first rounders (maybe one this year then next year) or at least a first rounder and a player equivalent to a first round pick.  I don't think we need to get too worried about that stuff just yet. Can you really see the club not getting much for him?

Am I on the right planet?

For a guy that ridiculed other posters for speculating on Hogan's trade worth, said he was settled in Vic and loved the club, and that it was a media waste of time..... you have certainly changed your tune Wise. Now you're speculating what we could get for him!

FMD I've seen it all!!!

I have a sneaky suspicion that this thread will uncover a few more turncoats in the next two weeks.

It's like watching an approaching car accident: will they hit or will it be a near miss?

[Superunknown 4,217]

Seems like some humble pie will be coming out of the oven soon

[Dr. Gonzo 24,212]

5 hours ago, Cards13 said:

 No he wouldn’t have, he would have moved up the ground into the midfield or wings and probably down back to help stem the flow. As he did numerous times this season.

The only drums beating I think are in people’s heads. I just can’t see it happening but who the hell knows. If it does I think it would be a big loss (depending on the return) and think he is a valuable asset to keep long term.

 

It would be a big loss but if he asks to go back to WA I wouldn't begrudge him that. If that eventuates then we try and get the best deal for the club and move on. Personally I'd rather Jack Martin than Steven May but May definitely fills a need. If we can get another top 10 pick/player as well (a mid preferably) we could potentially be better off.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

1 minute ago, McQueen said:

As light-hearted as the intent this post is being made in, it’s actually quite a humane perspective.  

Much like the criticism of Watts and noise it continually generated around the club for his whole career, we have experienced the same with Jesse - albeit for different reasons. 

Eventually, it wears the club, player and supporters down to a point where it’s nothing but a pain in the arse and an unwanted distraction. 

I’d love him to remain but if a very good deal can be achieved now, then let’s just do it so we can all breathe easier. 

I admire your gumption.

But I can't go with you. If we had huge distractions around trade period for the next 8 years, but got 300 games of Jesse Hogan in return? I'd take that every day of the week, and so would almost any other club.

It's the price you pay for having good players. They always have a target on their back.

[Filter 3]

2 hours ago, Dappa Dan said:

He was playing injured since the bye, and on one leg still managed 2 100+ SC games, and 2 in the nineties before he had to call it a day. You want to see a player found out? Wait and see what happens when they lock down on Weed as he grows to superstardom.

This is a great point I reckon. Is the Weid ready to take the full brunt of that attention? Don't want another thrown to the wolves career-destroying type situation. Plus, I love the Weid as much as the next guy, but Hogan's a proven great player and I'd hesitate to say one breakout game or two is enough evidence to make us start pinning all our hopes on the Weid instead

[Atholwebb 110]

Hogan to Freo and then trade to GWS for Dylan Shiel

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Just now, Filter said:

This is a great point I reckon. Is the Weid ready to take the full brunt of that attention? Don't want another thrown to the wolves career-destroying type situation. Plus, I love the Weid as much as the next guy, but Hogan's a proven great player and I'd hesitate to say one breakout game or two is enough evidence to make us start pinning all our hopes on the Weid instead

TMac, of course, is the other one to mention there. He's just about as proven as Jesse. Contested marking, straight kicking, huge engine... got the lot. Just is a bit older and has less time left in his career. Probably has just a few less strings to his bow too...

Weid won't be doing it on his own. TMac is a helluva companion up there. But yeah, no doubt you take Jesse out of any team and they're worse.

[dieter 3,325]

1 minute ago, Filter said:

This is a great point I reckon. Is the Weid ready to take the full brunt of that attention? Don't want another thrown to the wolves career-destroying type situation. Plus, I love the Weid as much as the next guy, but Hogan's a proven great player and I'd hesitate to say one breakout game or two is enough evidence to make us start pinning all our hopes on the Weid instead

All this talk is total madness. Hogan is essential to our next few years. Why all this bulldust speculation? Why///

[Wiseblood 24,637]

2 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Am I on the right planet?

For a guy that ridiculed other posters for speculating on Hogan's trade worth, said he was settled in Vic and loved the club, and that it was a media waste of time..... you have certainly changed your tune Wise. Now you're speculating what we could get for him!

You're not that silly, are you, Moonie?

When this thread was created the OP was sooking about Hogan and simply saying he should be traded.  There was nothing in it, yet people speculated about someone who, at the time, had given no indication that he was interested at all in moving.  I thought he deserved more respect than that and stand by that stance.

There is far, FAR, more to the story than there was 24 hours ago.  Reports from different outlets are slightly different, but it seems there is something in it.  So, with that in mind, it's worth discussing.  Before that, to me, it wasn't.  Now that we know more it's hard to ignore and there is more validity in the discussion.

I'm actually disappointed you didn't see the above as to why I was discussing it, but meh.  

[Superunknown 4,217]

21 minutes ago, DaisyDeeciple said:

I reckon Tyson would be a good fit for the Suns.

 

 

 

 

 

Lots of golf and punters to buy shirts. Nice house at Noosa . Bonza!

 

for sure if he goes he'll be imperious against us kicking 15 (against May) and that'll keep us out of the 8 on percentage. Probably 0.01%

#fml

#mfcss

Edited September 25, 2018 by Superunknown