Following on from my opening post, I believe we'll trade out Tyson & Kent, delist/retire Balic, Vince, Pedersen, King, Filipovic & Bugg.

Would allow us to secure Gaff as a FA, a mature ruck backup through trade, a DFA, 4 picks in the draft and one in the rookie draft. 

Good turn over number.

33 minutes ago, MadAsHell said:

Following on from my opening post, I believe we'll trade out Tyson & Kent, delist/retire Balic, Vince, Pedersen, King, Filipovic & Bugg.

Would allow us to secure Gaff as a FA, a mature ruck backup through trade, a DFA, 4 picks in the draft and one in the rookie draft. 

Good turn over number.

Hang on. Why are we trading out Tyson simply for a pick? Gaff would come in as a FA. Unless you package a pick you get for Tyson to get a real 'need' onto the list, I'd be holding on to Tyson as depth.

13 minutes ago, A F said:

Hang on. Why aore we trading out Tyson simply for a pick? Gaff would come in as a FA. Unless you package a pick you get for Tyson to get a real 'need' onto the list, I'd be holding on to Tyson as depth.

Couldbe a number of reasons. Cap space, maximize trade value, good offer.

Just have a gut feel he'll be traded. I don't know anything anyone doesn't however.

2 hours ago, samcantstandya said:

I think they will keep Bugg

We have to delist at least 3 can't keep everyone Bugg has to go.

Retired. Balic & Vince 

Trade / Kent

Delist / Bugg jkh king 

Delist rookies /  Filopovic.  Tim Smith. 

Johnstone to rookie list

Leaves 7 main list and 1 rookie spot  

grab Gaff, 2nd ruckman , delisted free agent, and 4 picks. Plus 1 rookie draft pick.  

7 hours ago, A F said:

He is not a good ball user. Criminally slow now too, in both mind and body. He's done.

Lewis on the other hand has another year left in him. Potentially two. We'll see. The end does come quickly sometimes. I have a feeling he could be in and out of the team in 2020 if he wants to play on.

I reckon Pedersen will get another one year deal.

I'd give Johnstone a one year deal or delist and re-rookie.

I don't rate AVB, but reckon he'll go around again if he can stay fit for the rest of the year.

Kent will move on. 

Pat McKenna has to be close to gone.

Likewise, Maynard.

Bugg will go too.

Both the boys who ruck in the VFL don’t seem up to it, so that’s two. We constantly get smashed in the ruck in the VFL, yet still keep winning! Probably gives Pedo an extra year.

Balic retired.

Vince, it’s time. Club has a lot of reasons to thank Bernie, 100 games and ripping representative of the club!

Someone will move and then one of the half dozen named above.

 

McKenna showed he has pace and could be a handy half back.  If he shows form at Casey, he may be retained.   

Agree Pedo gets another year again !!

43 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

McKenna showed he has pace and could be a handy half back.  If he shows form at Casey, he may be retained.   

Agree Pedo gets another year again !!

Mckenna lacks pace.

Clubs that are challenging  (in premiershop window) don't  make wholesale list changes (thats for rebuilding); the good ones will take a more surgical approach (not a slash n burn greenfields approach).  Therefore 3-4 changes would likely see us done, max 5.

Balic, vince, kent, king and Johnstone look likely.

The important thing yo remember is whether the players coming in are better. Round 4 and 5 picks in the draft in reality are not going to be.  So a free agent like Gaff would be a win (then 3 draft picks)

Alternatively you add a player by trading which means a JKH or Tyson are more vulnerable but leaves a king/kent/Johnstone on the list, if sticking to about 5 main squad list changes.

Note many people like to see change for change sake, but another reality is most clubs discards (players they are happy to trade or delist) rarely star at or improve another club.  

23 minutes ago, Ungarie boy said:

Clubs that are challenging  (in premiershop window) don't  make wholesale list changes (thats for rebuilding); the good ones will take a more surgical approach (not a slash n burn greenfields approach).  Therefore 3-4 changes would likely see us done, max 5.

Balic, vince, kent, king and Johnstone look likely.

The important thing yo remember is whether the players coming in are better. Round 4 and 5 picks in the draft in reality are not going to be.  So a free agent like Gaff would be a win (then 3 draft picks)

Alternatively you add a player by trading which means a JKH or Tyson are more vulnerable but leaves a king/kent/Johnstone on the list, if sticking to about 5 main squad list changes.

Note many people like to see change for change sake, but another reality is most clubs discards (players they are happy to trade or delist) rarely star at or improve another club.  

After winning their 3 premiership Hawthorn made the following amount of list changes:

2013: 9

2014: 9

2015: 8

Although there's only a minimum of 3 list changes required, the common thing is to make anywhere from half a dozen to 10 to ensure your list is consistently rejuvenated.

2 minutes ago, MadAsHell said:

After winning their 3 premiership Hawthorn made the following amount of list changes:

2013: 9

2014: 9

2015: 8

Although there's only a minimum of 3 list changes required, the common thing is to make anywhere from half a dozen to 10 to ensure your list is consistently rejuvenated.

The bottom six of any teams 22 on the field are often only just up to it, depth is having another 8 players who can come in and replace those bottom 6 players, or provide role coverage. To me Pedersen is a great example of role coverage for the Demons, being able to take a key forward or back position and pinch hit in the ruck. If you have to rely on him all season in ones you know your in trouble, but for 6 or 8 games, he can provide reasonable backup.

Once you go past 30 players, a few who may be young, then rest of list can virtually be turned over each year, or try some development players.

 

All good and well to get rid of players, but upgrading them is the issue. We need to move forwards, not consolidate and go backwards.

I don't understand you clueless clowns who say Tyson is depth. He plays when the entire squad is fully fit. He was second Bog a couple of weeks ago and is a very consistent player of high quality. His ball usage has become close to elite recently. 

Goodwin will keep him in the 22 by rejigging the squad at the end of the year. I am over the hate for Tyson. He is going nowhere. Get over yourselves! 

45 minutes ago, D4Life said:

The bottom six of any teams 22 on the field are often only just up to it, depth is having another 8 players who can come in and replace those bottom 6 players, or provide role coverage. To me Pedersen is a great example of role coverage for the Demons, being able to take a key forward or back position and pinch hit in the ruck. If you have to rely on him all season in ones you know your in trouble, but for 6 or 8 games, he can provide reasonable backup.

Once you go past 30 players, a few who may be young, then rest of list can virtually be turned over each year, or try some development players.

 

Good post. Re Pedersen, I see Keilty as our Pedersen replacement who's ready to go/be given his opportunity. Whether the club see him in the same light is another question I guess.

14 minutes ago, Thehardtackler said:

I don't understand you clueless clowns who say Tyson is depth. He plays when the entire squad is fully fit. He was second Bog a couple of weeks ago and is a very consistent player of high quality. His ball usage has become close to elite recently. 

Goodwin will keep him in the 22 by rejigging the squad at the end of the year. I am over the hate for Tyson. He is going nowhere. Get over yourselves! 

Tyson is playing good footy, and I think everyone knows how good he can be. And since he's come back he's been playing mainly on a wing (his own words).

Fact is with Viney to come back in, the potential recruitment of Gaff, Harmes playing as our tagger, Oliver, Brayshaw & Jones ahead of him plus the likes of Petracca & Salem being capable of playing more minutes in there, Tyson is far from a lock in our 22.

Happy for Tyson to stay, but he's not the guy you pick your 22 around.

Edited August 10, 20186 yr by MadAsHell
Words

Premiership teams are often stacked in the midfield and I believe Tyson can play with all those other players in the same team. Oliver can play forward as can Petracca and Jones will not be at our club forever so we should play Tyson. 

I also think that many people do not realise that Tyson has the talent and skill of our best Mids, what has hampered him is his confidence. Gaff, Oliver and Brayshaw are amazing because they are confident players. Petracca is another player who needs more confidence to go to the elite level. He is close though. 

8 minutes ago, Thehardtackler said:

I also think that many people do not realise that Tyson has the talent and skill of our best Mids, what has hampered him is his confidence. Gaff, Oliver and Brayshaw are amazing because they are confident players. Petracca is another player who needs more confidence to go to the elite level. He is close though. 

Tyson is rebuilding his confidence and his disposal has picked up the last couple of weeks. Aside from confidence possibly getting used to have a little more time on outside rather than rushing disposal.

I am a fan of Tyson but he had to lift and he has. The real fallacy is that ‘we don’t need Tyson.’ In form, he is an accumulator of footy with a great footy IQ and above average skills. And a best 22 player. 

We talk often about ‘your bottom 6’ players and what that means. If Tyson is in form and in that group - I know what that means...

I’m flabbergasted at the lack of Grade 1 English grammar and spelling on this site.

When you are extremely pleased with something it’s ‘rapt’ not ‘wrapped’. 

The difference between ‘too’ and ‘to’ and between ‘their’ and ‘there’ should be obvious unless you have a serious intellectual disability.

I could go on, but as many on here appear to be close to illiterate why bother?

44 minutes ago, President Dee Trump said:

I’m flabbergasted at the lack of Grade 1 English grammar and spelling on this site.

When you are extremely pleased with something it’s ‘rapt’ not ‘wrapped’. 

The difference between ‘too’ and ‘to’ and between ‘their’ and ‘there’ should be obvious unless you have a serious intellectual disability.

I could go on, but as many on here appear to be close to illiterate why bother?

Well I, for one, am wrapped somebody pointed this out.

7 minutes ago, Undeeterred said:

Well I, for one, am wrapped somebody pointed this out.

‘Ken oath. Wot he sed.

1 hour ago, President Dee Trump said:

I’m flabbergasted at the lack of Grade 1 English grammar and spelling on this site.

When you are extremely pleased with something it’s ‘rapt’ not ‘wrapped’. 

The difference between ‘too’ and ‘to’ and between ‘their’ and ‘there’ should be obvious unless you have a serious intellectual disability.

I could go on, but as many on here appear to be close to illiterate why bother?

Yes, Demonland is a haven for solecisms.

 

10 minutes ago, dieter said:

Yes, Demonland is a haven for solecisms.

 

solipsism, too

6 minutes ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

solipsism, too

Please, ProDee is not a solipsist, surely knot!

Why are we delisting players who are still make the 22 deep into a hopeful finals campaign?

I'd hang onto all three of Kent Jkh and Tyson unless we are bringing in proven talent and experience.