Another week another game where others stand up amd try and lift the team. Jones has been good for us when we had no better.

Now he has gone back to worrying about 1 meter handball receives than blocking for the player already in possession of it.

Time for Viney is now.

Viney had 6 touches to half time and didn't give a yelp until the last quarter. I love his intensity when he's playing well, but he's not a very well rounded leader. He leads from the front like Jones, but you never see him barking orders and organising players like a Hodge or Selwood or Cotchin does. Lever was brought across to provide leadership, and once he settled in he was the general of the backline. Losing him to injury has not only ruined our defensive structure, but losing his onfield leadership is arguably the biggest loss we could suffer.

We still don't have many good onfield leaders and it's the main reason we're struggling to improve IMO.

Jones played a much more consistent game than Viney today, and is one of only a couple of our players who can lower his eyes and hit a target inside 50.

Viney was completely absent until the last quarter, but it was too little too late.

Odd timing for this thread.

Jones should have been traded 3 years ago when he had some value. What difference from a leadership perspective did keeping him on have? We say he stayed loyal, let's get real, it was either stay at Melbourne or take on offers from other cellar dwellars. He ain't the cause of the problem but we've kept on players that go through the motion and have contributed little to changing the culture. We keep hearing the culture has changed but then we have round 23 2017 and parts of this year. 

Viney was irrelevant for three quarters and propped up when the Saints dropped off and the pressure eased up. 

The same issues are present and have been clearly evident since 2016. Once the pressure is applied we struggle most of the time. 

This is why finals last year was so important. Beating WC in Perth is pointless if you can't lay a tackle in a game that determines a finals berth.

Winning 6 in a row means nothing if you lose games that cement your position and can earn you real respect.

We mock guys like Brereton and Dunstall and King and Lloyd and Carey, we say they don't know what they're talking about. But they highlight key deficiencies with this team and club time and time again. They have the runs on the board. What do we have? 6 wins against [censored] teams? And then a loss a month later against one of those very teams?

I love Jones. I do. But cut the dead weight ffs. It's not a rebuild if you keep the losers.

Strange week to make this demand... we’ve stunk it up since Viney’s return and he hardly set the field alight today.

Gawn 2019 

7 minutes ago, praha said:

Jones should have been traded 3 years ago when he had some value. What difference from a leadership perspective did keeping him on have? We say he stayed loyal, let's get real, it was either stay at Melbourne or take on offers from other cellar dwellars. He ain't the cause of the problem but we've kept on players that go through the motion and have contributed little to changing the culture. We keep hearing the culture has changed but then we have round 23 2017 and parts of this year. 

Viney was irrelevant for three quarters and propped up when the Saints dropped off and the pressure eased up. 

The same issues are present and have been clearly evident since 2016. Once the pressure is applied we struggle most of the time. 

This is why finals last year was so important. Beating WC in Perth is pointless if you can't lay a tackle in a game that determines a finals berth.

Winning 6 in a row means nothing if you lose games that cement your position and can earn you real respect.

We mock guys like Brereton and Dunstall and King and Lloyd and Carey, we say they don't know what they're talking about. But they highlight key deficiencies with this team and club time and time again. They have the runs on the board. What do we have? 6 wins against [censored] teams? And then a loss a month later against one of those very teams?

I love Jones. I do. But cut the dead weight ffs. It's not a rebuild if you keep the losers.

Haha, go have a lie down. What a ridiculous post.

7 minutes ago, Mickey said:

Gawn 2019 

Played 4 leadership filled quarters today. 

Probably our only AA.

Looks like a leader to me.

Viney does too , sometimes . Not today, although last quarter good. Wanted more earlier and also against Collingwood a couple of weeks back. So two average performances  out of three must win games. Mixes it up, can be patchy. Captains need to show up every week. Not sold.

Jonesy been a great clubman and still maybe handy , but unless he ( and Viney) somehow haul us into the finals ( which they should if they are to be considered good leaders) do they really deserve it? 

 

Jones was better than Viney 

Why did TMac get dropped from the leadership group? I know he had a quiet game (he never should have played, he was puffing and huffing on the bench, which he never does. I never see him out on his feet but he was struggling), but he is a match winner. He stands up consistently in games. Poor or good games. 

It’s the whole team!  They lost and gave up a solid position in the 8.  Good teams do not do this!   Weak leadership, weak weak weak throughout the whole team.  Apologies Gawny

1 hour ago, Gorgoroth said:

Another week another game where others stand up amd try and lift the team. Jones has been good for us when we had no better.

Now he has gone back to worrying about 1 meter handball receives than blocking for the player already in possession of it.

Time for Viney is now.

Nathan Jones has plenty to go and being captain or not is not the issue here. A captain is a leader and he fullfils that part very well as does Jack. They both lead by example. The issue is our selection and team balance . However if you saw any of the game you would not be pleased with Petty's performance.However it was not the Lads fault being selected in a key position at the age of 18.Joel smith not ready to play and is not a key position as well and lacks confidence. Poor Frost one of the best again, for Casey? what did he do wrong not to get a game in front of the two i have mentioned.  No more to say because l am gutted with the result and sword should fall on Goodwin.

 

2 minutes ago, nosoupforme said:

Nathan Jones has plenty to go and being captain or not is not the issue here. A captain is a leader and he fullfils that part very well as does Jack. They both lead by example. The issue is our selection and team balance . However if you saw any of the game you would not be pleased with Petty's performance.However it was not the Lads fault being selected in a key position at the age of 18.Joel smith not ready to play and is not a key position as well and lacks confidence. Poor Frost one of the best again, for Casey? what did he do wrong not to get a game in front of the two i have mentioned.  No more to say because l am gutted with the result and sword should fall on Goodwin.

 

Can we all agree frost should be in? He must have rrrrreally done something bad?

I don't think Viney should be captain 

is lever too young ?

To me, Jones has reverted back to his own game and worrying about his game. 

Viney has stood up when we have needed some one too. Today’s was a good example, he was set a task he shouldn’t have been doing (tagging) did his best, wasn’t great at it, didn’t worry about that but tried to will the club over the line in the last.

We have had many a year of Jones and got nowhere, time for a new sole captain.

Get rid of the older group (Jones, Lewis) and let Viney take over with a few new guys. 

11 minutes ago, Gorgoroth said:

To me, Jones has reverted back to his own game and worrying about his game. 

Viney has stood up when we have needed some one too. Today’s was a good example, he was set a task he shouldn’t have been doing (tagging) did his best, wasn’t great at it, didn’t worry about that but tried to will the club over the line in the last.

We have had many a year of Jones and got nowhere, time for a new sole captain.

Get rid of the older group (Jones, Lewis) and let Viney take over with a few new guys. 

Agree. Viney’s quiet first half was due to Goodwin’s bright idea of tagging Jack Steven - which was clearly a mistake. 

He did this when he used Jones to tag Mitchell (against Hawks) and it failed then as well.

Viney, Gawn, TMac, Jetta and Lever should be the 2019 leadership.

 

1 hour ago, Farmerjeff said:

Jones was better than Viney 

Agree

And the only midfielder who looked like he had some time

The Jones/Viney combo is fine. Both of them are leading the way. Leadership is a strong point for us. It didn't used to be but I think we have great leaders. 

4 hours ago, KingDingAling said:

The Jones/Viney combo is fine. Both of them are leading the way. Leadership is a strong point for us. It didn't used to be but I think we have great leaders. 

Leading the way to where exactly ?

5 hours ago, timbo said:

I don't think Viney should be captain 

is lever too young ?

Yes, too young; but TMc isn't.

4 hours ago, KingDingAling said:

The Jones/Viney combo is fine. Both of them are leading the way. Leadership is a strong point for us. It didn't used to be but I think we have great leaders. 

I agree, KDA

 

but we do need more leaders in the team. maturity.

10 hours ago, Forest Demon said:

Jones played a much more consistent game than Viney today, and is one of only a couple of our players who can lower his eyes and hit a target inside 50.

Viney was completely absent until the last quarter, but it was too little too late.

Odd timing for this thread.

Jones racks up cheap possessions, little handballs out the back of packs, has nece hurt the opposition and has poor disposal, he actually looks like the game has caught up with him.

Viney was absent because our ideas man of a coach used him as a tagger for 3 quarters, just gob smacking.

what this club needs and always has is a captain from another club, like Judd did at Carlton. A fresh leader who is not so Melbourne from the start

Edited July 1, 20187 yr by SFebey

2 hours ago, SFebey said:

Jones racks up cheap possessions, little handballs out the back of packs, has nece hurt the opposition and has poor disposal, he actually looks like the game has caught up with him.

Viney was absent because our ideas man of a coach used him as a tagger for 3 quarters, just gob smacking.

what this club needs and always has is a captain from another club, like Judd did at Carlton. A fresh leader who is not so Melbourne from the start

Gaff!

?

2 hours ago, SFebey said:

Jones racks up cheap possessions, little handballs out the back of packs, has nece hurt the opposition and has poor disposal, he actually looks like the game has caught up with him.

Viney was absent because our ideas man of a coach used him as a tagger for 3 quarters, just gob smacking.

what this club needs and always has is a captain from another club, like Judd did at Carlton. A fresh leader who is not so Melbourne from the start

I couldn't agree any less on the first part. Those little handballs in close to get out of congestion are so important in today's game. And as for his kicking, I must be watching a different game to other Melbourne supporters. Jones was a bomb it long kick in his early days, but he has improved it so much over the years to the point he is actually one of our best kicks. Even Roos said he believed Jones was the best kick in the side.

Still haven’t changed my mind.

If Jones isn’t injured then he is a massive liability out there at the minute. He gave up multiple chases and his disposal was atrocious.

I still haven't changed my mind either. Viney is a good footballer, but not a rounded leader. He leads from the front like Jones, but you never see him barking orders and organising players like a Hodge or Selwood or Cotchin does. 

Neither Viney or Jones should be captain going forward. It should be someone like Lever, TMac or Brayshaw.

Edited August 12, 20187 yr by Lord Travis