55 minutes ago, Macca said:

Ah ... but nowhere near the levels of what happens in footy.  It is not even close. 

I formed an opinion in the late 1970's that Aussie rules was impossible to umpire correctly ... and it is infinitely harder to umpire now. 

It is an extremely difficult thing to do but I have trained my mind to simply ignore all contentious decisions and just accept all those decisions as a matter of course. 

Most people I have encountered are the exact opposite - they complain incessantly about questionable umpiring decisions without any let up.  They are wasting their own time and energy.  It's a totally futile exercise with zero satisfaction or closure or without any sort of likelihood of an ideal outcome. 

The sport is totally unumpirable and always has been.  There are grey areas left, right and centre and then there are interpretations of those grey areas.  And right now the sport has so much congestion that it is a wonder that any correct decisions can ever be made. 

I reckon that at least 30% of all decisions are either incorrect or highly questionable but I accept that strike rate of poor decisions because of the nature of the sport.  

Peoples - come to terms with it all and come to terms with it now.  Do not waste another minute on a totally futile exercise.  Do that and you'll save yourself from a lifetime of angst.  It is just not worth it.

You are right Macca it is impossible to umpire perfectly. But some areas for improvement in my eyes would be to review the push in the back rule. Going back to the original intent, the rule was created to stop a player pushing out the man in front in a marking contest. Fair enough. I don’t believe it was intended to punish someone who falls onto someone on the ground or who tackles someone and they both go forward. Play on unless it is Malicious. 

As for the high tackle, if the tackle starts correctly it is legit, irrespective of whether the hands go high or low due to the player ducking or throwing their arm up. Base your decision on severity, was the tackle potentially dangerous to the players head. 

As for the incorrect disposal rule I don’t know where to go. I want to reward the ball getter, not the lurker waiting to strip someone of the ball running past. So I would be lenient on the ball getter myself.

But let us be brutal on any player on the ground in a pack that does not try to release the ball, if they grab the ball with no hope of moving it on they are gone. That is a player on the ground should be out of the contest, like rugby union. 

Forget nominating ruckmen and third man up just throw the ball up ASAP and same with boundary throw ins, don’t wait for the ruckman to line up. 

And finally only pay the frees that actually disadvantage a playmaker. So no twiggy touchwoods, or technicals. 

9 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

You are right Macca it is impossible to umpire perfectly. But some areas for improvement in my eyes would be to review the push in the back rule. Going back to the original intent, the rule was created to stop a player pushing out the man in front in a marking contest. Fair enough. I don’t believe it was intended to punish someone who falls onto someone on the ground or who tackles someone and they both go forward. Play on unless it is Malicious. 

As for the high tackle, if the tackle starts correctly it is legit, irrespective of whether the hands go high or low due to the player ducking or throwing their arm up. Base your decision on severity, was the tackle potentially dangerous to the players head. 

As for the incorrect disposal rule I don’t know where to go. I want to reward the ball getter, not the lurker waiting to strip someone of the ball running past. So I would be lenient on the ball getter myself.

But let us be brutal on any player on the ground in a pack that does not try to release the ball, if they grab the ball with no hope of moving it on they are gone. That is a player on the ground should be out of the contest, like rugby union. 

Forget nominating ruckmen and third man up just throw the ball up ASAP and same with boundary throw ins, don’t wait for the ruckman to line up. 

And finally only pay the frees that actually disadvantage a playmaker. So no twiggy touchwoods, or technicals. 

To get more correct decisions we need to get rid of the congestion,  the rolling mauls and the packs.  Apart from being an eyesore what chance do the umpires have of making correct decisions in that environment Earl?  None to my eyes. 

So fix the sport first ... get rid of the interchange and if that doesn't work reduce the amount of players on the field to make it way less crowded.

And the umpires aren't the cause of the congestion despite what many say and think.  But people like to blame the ass-end of a system problem instead of looking at cause & effect. 

And we do have a system problem.  And to fix a bad system you have to start at the top.  By the way,  I was saying much the same thing 7 or 8 years ago.  Now,  like many others,  I'm just repeating myself.

Edited June 23, 20186 yr by Macca

the age of the interchange being using tactically was the beginning of the end for Australian rules football. It will be slow but the game will die.

The sport at the highest level is unwatchable now. The only reason a game is entertaining is if its close with a minute to go. There are no more highlights. cheap goals over the back are boring. Its become basketball on a big field with a rolling maul making it as boring as batshit.

I don't want to see fumbling players getting tackled non stop. I want to see one on one contests, high marking, precision foot skills to hard leading forwards.

AFL is gone fellas.

On 6/23/2018 at 8:40 PM, Gorgoroth said:

Watching the dogs/Norf game all I can say is the game is stuffed and I’m paying more attention to what my wife is saying than the footy... it’s an outrage!!!

tell her to stop making sense Gorg.  more sense, than umpires, that bad?????

AFL has become far too bureaucratic, to the point where apart from the Dees, i simply couldn't give a stuff about the AFL.

The local country footy league is way more enjoyable to go to nowadays, as it represents footy the way it was and should be, is way more inclusive and more fun in general.

It has all become about generating money to the point where AFL is a business first, then daylight to football second. Sad really.

 

Edited June 24, 20186 yr by Demon Disciple

1 hour ago, DV8 said:

tell her to stop making sense Gorg.  more sense, than umpires, that bad?????

I never said she was making sense, just that due to the horrendous umpiring I was paying more attention to what she was saying ?

 

*But tbh she does talk sense, smart woman is my wife.

Pies have had the best run with the umps all season, and surprise, surprise they are now in the top 4. Same for North and they are in the 8. Watch out for Essendon to get a similar run with the maggots.

On 6/23/2018 at 2:38 PM, monoccular said:

The cesspool from which the maggots emerge has been badly diluted by (a) too many teams and (b) too many umpires per game  

Now we must have about 50 of them; with 14 or even 16 teams with two of them per game that would mean 32.   So there is now a dregs pit of at least 18.  No wonder we get this ??? every week.

It has really turned me off the game.  Used to watch every Friday and Saturday night game as well as nearly every Demons game.  Now I can only bring myself to watch bits and pieces.  Yet the geniuses at AFL HQ lead by Gill the dill can’t seem to see this.

However I am not sure that the egg can be unbroken. 

Top grade soccer is looking quite attractive.  

There are too many issue with the rules and the people who govern it. I started watch nrl and have noticed that the refereeing is very simplistic. In soccer it is pretty straight forward. Shite I don’t understand union but it seems simple. AFL has got to fast all about how fast a kid can run so umpires can’t fully digest and there make assumptions on what has or will happen. It comes from the top. 

My over gripe is about commentating. Watch an nrl, World Cup epl game and listen to the commentating. Once again simple and straight to the point. No hyping of teams players etc.

Another point, though I may get shot down is the AFLW. The AFL seem to think they are changing the world. Female sport ie soccer has been around a long time, has pathways and is professional in several countries already. Unfortunately the AFL is about stories and headlines. I predict Collingwood and Richmond will play in a flag as that is the story wanted this year. 

Unfortunately  the AFL has become a circus. It may be the last year my family renew memberships and we follow 4 different clubs. Feel by paying I contribute to the circus. 

Sorry for the rant but had to get off the chest !

I've posted a few times about the umpires, they don't know how to work the angles to see both sides of the contest.  This is why we introduced the 3rd umpire so you had umpires on both sides of the contest and one down field.  I hate hearing the umpire couldn't see the free kick as he was on the other side, that is what the other umpire is meant to see.

There still is a stigma with umpires to pay a free kick when they aren't the controlling umpire.  This is more prevalent when you have a senior umpire in control, the younger umpires won't pay a kick a senior umpire misses. 

Is the game being played the way it is because a coach decided to be innovative in game style or are coaches now planning styles after all this  new data/statistical analysis was introduced? 

Either way, it’s one big mess, a shite spectacle and impossible to umpire. Someone mentioned how hard it is to explain the rules to a person new to the game. You wouldn’t know where to start. The inconsistencies are glaring, more so than previous years I feel. So much running in games these days it’s almost like they have to blow the whistle for a rest.

 

The answer is yes. I used to absolutely love this game and was so proud it was the Australian version of football. Now it's bee turned into some type of monstrosity, where the rules are so complex and difficult to comprehend, that there are ridiculous mistakes on a weekly basis. 

If it wasn't for my love of the Demons I would just stop going completely. However, while I used to watch 3-4 games a weekend, I am now only really watching the Dees and then maybe a Friday night game if I'm really bored and here is nothing else to do. Though that is rare with things like Netflix and also reading good books!

 

1 hour ago, Dirts said:

There are too many issue with the rules and the people who govern it. I started watch nrl and have noticed that the refereeing is very simplistic. In soccer it is pretty straight forward. Shite I don’t understand union but it seems simple.

Consider this. In soccer, can the Colombian referee run the match between Iceland and Senegal? Yes he can. Because he has his whistle and his hand signals and everyone can see what is going on. There is no language barrier because no language us required.

In the AFL, can any umpire run a match without constantly talking? No. "Corey ... back two. Back two mate. Corey. Back two."

The only vocalising should be "Play on", which in theory could be in any language as long as everyone knows what it means.

But simplicity is not in their vocabulary. But it could be ...

For some absurd reason the AFL picked on deliberate out of bounds ... as if that's the biggest problem with game ... and started policing it with a no tolerance policy. And pretty quickly got that under control (if it was ever out of control). Anything remotely resembling deliberate was paid a free.

Is throwing the ball a bigger problem? I think most would say yes. Why then does a zero tolerance policy not apply? They have this hand-wringing belief that maybe one free kick would be paid incorrectly! A handpass might be called a throw! think of the children! This could cost someone a grand final! (In 2016, maybe the opposite already did!)

Their philosophy on how to ref is all wrong and their answers always consist of adjusting poor rules with even poorer rules on top. Third man up being one with the obvious answer staring everyone in the face except the clots who run the show.

1 hour ago, Dirts said:

My over gripe is about commentating. Watch an nrl, World Cup epl game and listen to the commentating. Once again simple and straight to the point. No hyping of teams players etc.

Another thing staring the powers that be in the face. This has been the case for years, but in true AFL style, we get worse. Horse-race style commentary, "personality" commentators as "part of the show", openly biased commentators ... as if that adds anything at all ... and after the match, a roaming f***wit.

The only answer can be that the AFL simply don't care.

Only hearing impaired umpires should officiate in WA and SA. They are clearly influenced by the crowd noise. How this imbalance isn't a major issue at AFL House is beyond belief. The Eagles vs Bombers game in Perth was even worse than ours. Simply terrible.

As a preamble, I don't like umpires.

That said, they really do have one of the worst jobs going around.  The pace of the game is so fast these days - we all see how quick Clarry can shoot a handball out, the split second it takes Dusty to do the don't argue (which often get opposition players in the face), that split second it takes for Selwood to raise his arm to get an over-the-shoulder free.  The thing that hasn't kept up with this pace increase is the eye sight, so it makes it bloody hard for umpires to keep up with the general play.  When we sit at home, or even at the game, and have the luxury of many replays from many angles and speeds, we can often clearly see things, but the maggots don't get the luxury of this.

The instruction at umpire school is that a decision should never be guessed.  It's because of this point, which is fact, that frustrates the hell out of me.  I'm all for giving them some leniency if they miss a free here and there, but when they have clearly guessed a decision, that's when they need to be held far more accountable that what they currently are.  The Selwood ones are the greatest example - it's not hard to know, even at top pace, when he has initiated high contact through raising his arm in a tackle.  You can clearly see it, but the umpires guess that the contact was high in the first place.

For what it's worth, I felt that we had the best of the umpires on Friday night for the first three quarters.  It's more disappointing that we didn't make the most of it, as it rarely happens.

1 hour ago, Mazer Rackham said:

Consider this. In soccer, can the Colombian referee run the match between Iceland and Senegal? Yes he can. Because he has his whistle and his hand signals and everyone can see what is going on. There is no language barrier because no language us required.

In the AFL, can any umpire run a match without constantly talking? No. "Corey ... back two. Back two mate. Corey. Back two."

The only vocalising should be "Play on", which in theory could be in any language as long as everyone knows what it means.

But simplicity is not in their vocabulary. But it could be ...

For some absurd reason the AFL picked on deliberate out of bounds ... as if that's the biggest problem with game ... and started policing it with a no tolerance policy. And pretty quickly got that under control (if it was ever out of control). Anything remotely resembling deliberate was paid a free.

Is throwing the ball a bigger problem? I think most would say yes. Why then does a zero tolerance policy not apply? They have this hand-wringing belief that maybe one free kick would be paid incorrectly! A handpass might be called a throw! think of the children! This could cost someone a grand final! (In 2016, maybe the opposite already did!)

Their philosophy on how to ref is all wrong and their answers always consist of adjusting poor rules with even poorer rules on top. Third man up being one with the obvious answer staring everyone in the face except the clots who run the show.

and i still can't see what is wrong with a third man up anyway, plus what is wrong with a deliberate forced point within 5-10 metres of the goal line. and then there is the 15m penalty being exchanged for a 50m penalty with nothing in between and we now find minor infringements with no impact on play being rewarded by 50m penalties which sometimes end up as 75m because umpires have no way of accurately determining 50m. then there is ruck infringements, i no longer have any idea what is legal or illegal in ruck contests, they just seem to pluck them out of the air........i could go on but what's the point