Just now, SFebey said:

I'm not getting into semantics about this, interpret it how you like. As I said, Goodwin said as much on SEN, he revealed to Jones in a game of gold with the McDonald boys. Jones is rated way too highly around here by his fan club.

You've twice said that he sooked when he was made co-captain.  This has been revealed by your own link to be false.

It's clear you don't rate Jones asa captain, that's fine; but support your arguments with facts, rather than fiction. 

25 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Im sorry...what ?

Think about it some more.   I'm saying if he does what you say a leader should do and resigns, then that proves he is a leader since he did what a leader does. So you'd then say he is a leader, so why did he resign.  I admit my remark was somewhat facetious.

Just now, sue said:

Think about it some more.   I'm saying if he does what you say a leader should do and resigns, then that proves he is a leader since he did what a leader does. So you'd then say he is a leader, so why did he resign.  I admit my remark was somewhat facetious.

ahhh  youre right

Well, my thoughts were if he actually had the qualities many are to afford him then yes he ought to step aside and allow another to take the reigns. A good leader would actually encourage it and possibly offer thoughts from a distance as it were. Good management practice is to train your replacement.

that said...I'll go with facetious  

Just now, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

You've twice said that he sooked when he was made co-captain.  This has been revealed by your own link to be false.

It's clear you don't rate Jones asa captain, that's fine; but support your arguments with facts, rather than fiction. 

As I said, interpret it how you like. Even Viney went onto the Footy Show and said as much that Jones cracked it at the start of the year, plus Goodwins interview. I'm sticking to what I said. I don't rate him as a player, let alone captain. He's a tryer, but a very limited one at that.

6 minutes ago, SFebey said:

As I said, interpret it how you like. Even Viney went onto the Footy Show and said as much that Jones cracked it at the start of the year, plus Goodwins interview. I'm sticking to what I said. I don't rate him as a player, let alone captain. He's a tryer, but a very limited one at that.

So you've stopped using the word 'sooked'.

That's good.

I seem to remember Cotchin was a terrible leader for the last five years, and now he has transformed as the Tigers have improved. 

As the Demons get better so will our co-captains. 

Would be happy going to Viney in 2019 or 2020.

It's a really good question. What makes a good or great captain?

I am a big fan of Tex Walker as a player but I wouldn't know how he verbally lifts his players as a captain or what goes on behind the scenes. He's been voted best captain by his peers for 2 years in a row and I can only go by what I see when he plays.

For me it's as simple as a pack busting mark or a long bomb from 50 when the team needs it, similar to David Neitz.

Half way through the season someone posted a video of Jones talking about how he knocked back offers from other clubs whilst our club was at its lowest ebb. 

He wanted to stay in the hope one day HIS footy club would rise from the ashes and it's almost there.

That for me is leadership enough and I will be comfortable with any decision Jones makes about his role. 

He busted his ass for years at the bottom of packs with no support what so ever. 

There have been many captains of clubs where for sheer skill wouldn't be in the teams top 10.

Come to think of it, I couldn't care less now if he had a sook or not about sharing the captaincy. 

Apart from any other considerations I'm not a fan of co-captains.

Id be preferring Viney captain alone for this reason alone.

Again each to their own. 

Answer 

no

I'd appoint Wattsy captain and show and tell the rest of the AFL world we at the MFC are above " fake news " !

7 hours ago, SFebey said:

I'm not getting into semantics about this, interpret it how you like. As I said, Goodwin said as much on SEN, he revealed to Jones in a game of gold with the McDonald boys. Jones is rated way too highly around here by his fan club.

If anything it's Viney who's over-rated, not Jones. When we talk about there being a lack of leadership this season, Viney seems to avoid his share of the blame, and it's Jones who has to shoulder the responsibility for it. Though Viney gets the kudos when it goes well. 

Too many are too ready to turn a blind eye toward Viney's flaws as a player. And I'm just not yet convinced by him as captain, especially if he continues to get a free pass to avoid his share of responsibility for lack of leadership. And he rarely brings others into the game in the way that Jones does; at this stage in his career, he seems more concerned about his own game.

Don't get me wrong, Viney's a very good player, and could yet be one of the greats of the club. But I don't think he's done enough yet to have earned the beatification that D'land seems so keen to bestow upon him.

Jones unfortunately has had his time 

Thanks for trying so hard Jonesy but you are not a leader and you wont lead the team to a GF

Sorry for saying it but thats the way is. Goodwin knows it but wont say it. Read the sigNs and let it go concentrate on your own game for 2 years.

how would dropping Jones from the captaincy improve our leadership?

after everything he has and continues to give to MFC, we need to handle him Extremely carefully. he stuck with us when not many would have. He leads well onfield and sets the example off-field with training standards etc.

Obviously Viney is a born leader - I think the two complement each other. 

6 hours ago, Akum said:

If anything it's Viney who's over-rated, not Jones. When we talk about there being a lack of leadership this season, Viney seems to avoid his share of the blame, and it's Jones who has to shoulder the responsibility for it. Though Viney gets the kudos when it goes well. 

Too many are too ready to turn a blind eye toward Viney's flaws as a player. And I'm just not yet convinced by him as captain, especially if he continues to get a free pass to avoid his share of responsibility for lack of leadership. And he rarely brings others into the game in the way that Jones does; at this stage in his career, he seems more concerned about his own game.

Don't get me wrong, Viney's a very good player, and could yet be one of the greats of the club. But I don't think he's done enough yet to have earned the beatification that D'land seems so keen to bestow upon him.

I actually agree with you, I think there is concern over Vineys disposal, have always said that. However comparing the two, I haven't seen a player like Viney will himself in such a way in a Melbourne jumper for quite some time, he wants to win. Compare that to Jones and Viney is the standout leader IMO. Also worth noting that Viney played through the whole year it seems with his foot

18 hours ago, SFebey said:

I think the fact that Viney was voted in as co-captain clearly shows Jones isn't up to it by himself.

 

18 hours ago, rjay said:

A unilateral decision by Goodwin is hardly what I would call voted in.

 

18 hours ago, SFebey said:

Even worse then, the coach didn't think he could do it himself.

 

15 hours ago, SFebey said:

Well he cracked the sooks about being a co-captain so it makes you wonder!

 

15 hours ago, Demon77 said:

Did he really have a sook or was it more a tad shocked by being blindsided?

 

15 hours ago, SFebey said:

Apparently he sooked/wasn't happy. Well documented 

 

15 hours ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

A well documented 'sook' should be supported by a link.

He was, understandably, disappointed when first told.

 

Don't slander a great of our club.

 

15 hours ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

"Melbourne's Nathan Jones has revealed he was initially disappointed by the move to share the Demons' captaincy with young star Jack Viney."

"(But) I was really conscious and aware of not letting that influence my professionalism, leadership and training standards or impact on the playing group."

 

So where is the 'well documented" sook??

 

15 hours ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

You've twice said that he sooked when he was made co-captain.  This has been revealed by your own link to be false.

It's clear you don't rate Jones asa captain, that's fine; but support your arguments with facts, rather than fiction. 

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story...

How do we know a black hole exists ? It and of itself is almost impossible to discern so we look to how elements around it react in order to paint for ourselves a picture of what must be.

How do we know good Captaincy is in effect ?  We look around the team  ( and for mine especially on game day )  and see how its reacting to leadership. A players own game is his own responsibility but how you meld within a group structured environment and participate is as much a result of the individual as it it external influence.

Possibly one of the most damning and consistent observations about our games is how bereft of leadership we seem during our games. As the Professor would ask....why is this so ?

There is only one logical answer.

In admitting I am not the sharpest tool in the Demonland thread, I apologise for causing the result of the poll to be skewed.  I answered the question raised by the thread title rather than that posed by the poll.  

It now has major importance for both sides of the question as moving my vote to the no's, means the result is now tied 50/50 and he can therefore stay as captain.

If i had the slightest idea how to change the vote (and cared enough) I would.

Edited September 26, 20177 yr by Bimbo

I wouldn't be giving Viney the sole captaincy until they can prove his foot is 100%. 

Edited September 26, 20177 yr by Bring-Back-Powell

2 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

I wouldn't be giving Viney the sole captaincy until they can prove his foot is 100%. 

It is actually probably the only reason to tell the truth.

Pointless having No Captain out there.  So circumstances again ( as often ) dictate the outcome.

So we effectively have a person captaining by default. General opinion 50/50  Hardly a resounding endorsement.

11 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

I wouldn't be giving Viney the sole captaincy until they can prove his foot is 100%. 

 

8 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

It is actually probably the only reason to tell the truth.

Pointless having No Captain out there.  So circumstances again ( as often ) dictate the outcome.

So we effectively have a person captaining by default. General opinion 50/50  Hardly a resounding endorsement.

The co-captain curse. Grimes/Jones inertia. Trengove/Viney hobble. Let’s hope not.

Edited September 26, 20177 yr by america de cali

16 hours ago, SFebey said:

As I said, interpret it how you like. Even Viney went onto the Footy Show and said as much that Jones cracked it at the start of the year, plus Goodwins interview. I'm sticking to what I said. I don't rate him as a player, let alone captain. He's a tryer, but a very limited one at that.

It's hard not to find your last two comments infuriating.

Should Jones be captain?

Well ... is god catholic?

We are clearly running out of things to discuss on this forum! Bring on trade week

Edited September 27, 20177 yr by Demons1858

43 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

It is actually probably the only reason to tell the truth.

Pointless having No Captain out there.  So circumstances again ( as often ) dictate the outcome.

So we effectively have a person captaining by default. General opinion 50/50  Hardly a resounding endorsement.

Playing games here Bub.

Presuming the captaincy required the players to vote on it (which led to the appointment of co-captains), 50% of the playing group didn't think Viney should be captain.

Hardly a resounding endorsement from those that actually matter.

21 minutes ago, The Chazz said:

Playing games here Bub.

Presuming the captaincy required the players to vote on it (which led to the appointment of co-captains), 50% of the playing group didn't think Viney should be captain.

Hardly a resounding endorsement from those that actually matter.

and Im the ones playing games ?

Co Captains, that was the coaches decision

Was the captain voted on ?                                                                                                                    

3 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

and Im the ones playing games ?

Co Captains, that was the coaches decision

Was the captain voted on ?                                                                                                                    

I'm presuming so.  Would imagine that the playing group would have some say in it?  I may be wrong.

Point is, you highlighted that because 50% of people are voting to keep Jones as co-captain, that it's hardly an endorsement for the bloke.  I'll flip it over - the fact that 50% want him to remain in the post means that said 50% aren't necessarily satisfied that Viney is ready to go it alone.

While I am in favour of Jones remaining in the role, I really have no care.  Mainly because either way you lean, we are in no position to know the full extent of the role.  We are exposed to what we see on the ground, and what we hear in press conferences.  We don't have ears in the huddles at training, in the dressing room, in the midfield meetings after an opposition goal, etc, etc.

If Jones initiates the stepping down, then that's fine by me.  From the very limited exposure we have, I don't see the need for him to do that.  If he is tapped on the shoulder, I hope it doesn't throw a bad egg amongst this culture we are trying to create (that egg could also come from other senior members of the playing group, and not driven by Jones).