31 minutes ago, Red and Bluebeard said:

Agreed. However, we are where we are (how many times do Dees supporters have to say things like this?), and Mahoney's comments today make a bad situation better, IMHO.

 

So how are his comments bagging a contracted players in public made things better?

Good clubs keep these things internal, surely these comments could have been said in this place. Also decreases any trade value if it must come to that.

 

 

Edited October 4, 20178 yr by Jibroni

1 minute ago, beelzebub said:

well... about what though? Had  they come to sensible terms ...whichever/whatever  amicably we'd have had a united front type story etc. 

here its amateur hour adversarial type rubbish. All totally unnecessary in my book.

Had the club made any comment before Watts and his manager were spotted in Adelaide having a meeting with Port?

Watts isn't the type of player you would sign without kicking the tyres, so there's no real way of gauging clubs interest in him and vice-versa without it leaking.

Unfortunately it leaked and Goodwin had media commitments. It should calm down a bit now until he picks a club - if he does end up having interest elsewhere. Then a trade might get ugly.

9 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

well... about what though? Had  they come to sensible terms ...whichever/whatever  amicably we'd have had a united front type story etc. 

here its amateur hour adversarial type rubbish. All totally unnecessary in my book.

How specifically would you have handled the situation? 

2 hours ago, Redleg said:

I have Melbourne mates  who can't stand Jack. They say he is a squib, is probably the only 196cm player in the AFL who doesn't take pack marks, is never hard at the contest, applies no pressure and doesn't tackle and has played a few good games this year and last and that is all you will ever get out of him.

They have wanted him gone for a few years and know nothing about his training and outside footy activities but can't stand him.

Obviously they are not alone in these views.

What are their names? STMJ? The good Doctor? Mo64? 

4 minutes ago, Stretch Johnson said:

How specifically would you have handled the situation? 

By avoiding the probability that you provide for  unknowns.

Season's end exit interview. Establish the clubs position and the players intentions  unequivocally . Or a reasonable is short time frame for all to come to a decision. Stay/Go.

If stay,... all chatter and such stops. If go. then go!! None of this door open...etc etc etc [censored].

If it was Watts happy to go , then any 'looking'  "visiting" is all above board and beyond scandal or confusion. Yep. 'after discussions . Jack is seeking a trade suitable to himself and agreeable to the club"

Did we get anything clear cut...absolutely NO. it's been a mish mash . It's still a mish  mash. Is Jack staying or  going ?  who the f knows  currently.

A clear and defined path was NOT  utilised. Too much left with pathways to not only unsatisfactory outcomes but  not having everyone on the one page has fueled the frenzy.

Some things really just arent hard..People make them so by not thinking it  through.  I deal in the building industry. So much is AVOIDABLE if everyone has a clear idea from day 1.  I avoid a lot of hassle because i imagine that bridge ahead...make sure its passable..cross it...and all are happy.  

This has all been a bit like taking the kids to the zoo and turning your back for 5 mins... You just KNOW it cant go well  from there !!

I don't agree with you on this bb.  There are no absolutes in this one.   The player still has a contract. 

The club had three choices.  Lie,  pretend nothing is going on until Jack turns up at rival club touring facilities or tell it how it is. 

Edited October 4, 20178 yr by Guest

12 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

What are their names? STMJ? The good Doctor? Mo64? 

Non demonlanders. Surely you know Melbourne people who are frustrated with Jack's performances. 

25 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Had the club made any comment before Watts and his manager were spotted in Adelaide having a meeting with Port?

Fairly certain both Goodwin and Jones spoke in the media before it was announced that Watts was spotted in Adelaide. 

Could be wrong,...

1 minute ago, Stretch Johnson said:

I don't agree with you on this bb.  There are no absolutes in this one.   The player still has a contract. 

The club had three choices.  Lie,  pretend nothing is going on until Jack turns up at rival club touring facilities or tell it how it is. 

Exactly. The player has a contract.  Which is why you would need to establish very early on what's what and  how both parties would go forward.

It seems the club just barreled on regardless.  Jack plays the Contract /I want to stay card.. Club look like gooses.

All avoidable if anyone had bothered to think it all through and address the issues timely and to a decision, not an open ended...balls-up !!

1 minute ago, beelzebub said:

Jack plays the Contract /I want to stay card.. Club look like gooses.

How do they look like gooses (geese?)?

Things can get a bit messy at this time of year and usually it's unavoidable considering the time delay between end of season and trade week. It was never gonna be Watts just turns up one day and he's signed with another club and even if it was the supporters would still be lambasting the club, probably even moreso.

3 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Exactly. The player has a contract.  Which is why you would need to establish very early on what's what and  how both parties would go forward.

It seems the club just barreled on regardless.  Jack plays the Contract /I want to stay card.. Club look like gooses.

All avoidable if anyone had bothered to think it all through and address the issues timely and to a decision, not an open ended...balls-up !!

Maybe in your eyes. The club doesn't act to pacify irrational supporters.

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

How do they look like gooses (geese?)?

Things can get a bit messy at this time of year and usually it's unavoidable considering the time delay between end of season and trade week. It was never gonna be Watts just turns up one day and he's signed with another club and even if it was the supporters would still be lambasting the club, probably even moreso.

You think we look shiny clever ?  We appear to not know whats happening with one of our players. Puts us at a needless disadvantage.

 

1 minute ago, mo64 said:

Maybe in your eyes. The club doesn't act to pacify irrational supporters.

Not saying they have to. That  of itself is not the criteria for looking less than clever. It's how they appear to the public / and profession in general.  Wouldnt expect the club to give two shlts about me.

It certainly appears that club and player are at odds and that is why there is a conflict. 

Your suggestion that the club just sit on its hands and takes no action just wreaks of old Melbourne.

4 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

You think we look shiny clever ?  We appear to not know whats happening with one of our players. Puts us at a needless disadvantage.

 

Not saying they have to. That  of itself is not the criteria for looking less than clever. It's how they appear to the public / and profession in general.  Wouldnt expect the club to give two shlts about me.

Joe Public just sees it like it is. We are trying to offload an under performing player who is contracted.

1 minute ago, Stretch Johnson said:

It certainly appears that club and player are at odds and that is why there is a conflict. 

Your suggestion that the club just sit on its hands and takes no action just wreaks of old Melbourne.

who suggesting that

Long time lurker, first-time poster. Hi, everyone!

Big JW fan, but I guess much of that is premised on the fairytale of converting potential to success, much like the club itself.

Up until now, I've been highly unimpressed with the handling of this matter. Yes, JW has had his moments (pre-season /his perceived lack of hunger etc.), and he has been frustrating because of the disparity between his best and worst. It's all exacerbated by the #1 tag and his 9 years at the Dees. But he loves the club, and saw us through some dark times. We need people like that. But, I totally agree that things can't stay the same for things to change.

So, Mahoney's comments today are comforting. I now believe there is a chance of JW staying, but that if he does, there is no question whatsoever (Wattsoever?) that he is a leader, and needs to act and play as one. He won't ever be a hard nut like Chunk and Viney, or the fastest on ground, but he's silky and reads the game better than most, and when he's at his best, we play better for it. He's my choice for goal 50m out, after the siren, and one day that could win us a game/final/GF.

But if he goes, I will also know that he was not prepared to be the player we need him to be (or was not able to convince Goody/PJ of this). I'm still kind of broken by 2017 (and other years), hence my name, but I see big things and I'd love for JW to be there. My gut feel is that he'll be there, and he'll be amazing. But I'm a dreamer. I have to be as a Demon, otherwise I'd have checked myself into a psych ward years ago.

I need a profile pic...

7 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

who suggesting that

You.. By suggesting that the club barrelled on regardless of the player.

I assumed that you suggested the opposite idea of the club not taking action. 

If not... What specifically should the club have done? 

Edited October 4, 20178 yr by Guest

3 hours ago, mo64 said:

I suggest everybody listens to Josh Mahoney's interview on SEN this morning. Here's a brief rundown:

- Watts can explore opportunities elsewhere, but if he can't find a deal that suits himself and the club, he'll remain at the club.

- Mahoney couldn't make it any clearer that the club is unhappy with his level of professionalism,and the impact that it can have on our young list.

- He a senior player, and the club expects more out of Watts.

This is my take on it. The club will keep him on the club's terms. There was clear frustration in Mahoney's voice, because the club's expectations are higher than Watts own. This would have been exacerbated with Watts holding his own presser yesterday, and saying that he's played well the past 2 years. The club has had enough, because Watts just doesn't get it.

I listened to this and was very impressed. Mahoney gave us all of the answers we've been looking for clearly and unambiguously. It's not about onfield performance. It's they way he conducts himself off-field. His training habits. Sum up his entire interview in one of the last things he said. "It's bad for the kids." They don't want to have our young talented kids seeing a nine year veteran getting away with 70% effort.

Now I remain hopeful that Jack stays with the club and thrives, but at least now I know exactly what it is that has the coaches offside. I won't like it, but I can understand if he gets the chop.

15 minutes ago, RedButMostlyBlue said:

Long time lurker, first-time poster. Hi, everyone!

Big JW fan, but I guess much of that is premised on the fairytale of converting potential to success, much like the club itself.

Up until now, I've been highly unimpressed with the handling of this matter. Yes, JW has had his moments (pre-season /his perceived lack of hunger etc.), and he has been frustrating because of the disparity between his best and worst. It's all exacerbated by the #1 tag and his 9 years at the Dees. But he loves the club, and saw us through some dark times. We need people like that. But, I totally agree that things can't stay the same for things to change.

So, Mahoney's comments today are comforting. I now believe there is a chance of JW staying, but that if he does, there is no question whatsoever (Wattsoever?) that he is a leader, and needs to act and play as one. He won't ever be a hard nut like Chunk and Viney, or the fastest on ground, but he's silky and reads the game better than most, and when he's at his best, we play better for it. He's my choice for goal 50m out, after the siren, and one day that could win us a game/final/GF.

But if he goes, I will also know that he was not prepared to be the player we need him to be (or was not able to convince Goody/PJ of this). I'm still kind of broken by 2017 (and other years), hence my name, but I see big things and I'd love for JW to be there. My gut feel is that he'll be there, and he'll be amazing. But I'm a dreamer. I have to be as a Demon, otherwise I'd have checked myself into a psych ward years ago.

I need a profile pic...

 

Edited October 4, 20178 yr by ManDee

16 minutes ago, Stretch Johnson said:

You.. By suggesting that the club barrelled on regardless of the player.

I assumed that you suggested the opposite idea of the club not taking action. 

If not... What specifically should the club have done? 

go back and read.. All explained. Not hard. If not bothered thats fine. 

13 minutes ago, ManDee said:

 

Thanks for the profile pic, ManDee! Love it. It's so me....and it's red, but mostly blue. Perfect!

1 hour ago, Jibroni said:

 

So how are his comments bagging a contracted players in public made things better?

Good clubs keep these things internal, surely these comments could have been said in this place. Also decreases any trade value if it must come to that.

 

 

 

I don't consider his comments bagging. It should have all been kept in house, but given that it wasn't, I found Mahoney's comments appropriate, and basically saying we have different opinions but we will work through this. That is a lot more positive in my mind than Goodwin's comments about being stuck in a rut (which may be true, but less helpful for the public image).

1 hour ago, Stretch Johnson said:

BB we both know that had all this been done in secret there would be many a rumbling about the lack of information and transparency coming from the club. 

 

Yes there would have been rumblings, but so what. What's more important, pandering to noisy impatient people or running a tight ship on these matters.  I know which I'd choose however much I'd love to be a fly on the wall at the Club.

50 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

How do they look like gooses (geese?)?

Things can get a bit messy at this time of year and usually it's unavoidable considering the time delay between end of season and trade week. It was never gonna be Watts just turns up one day and he's signed with another club and even if it was the supporters would still be lambasting the club, probably even moreso.

possibly but it avoids the goose-look if he stays at the club and the focus on him is distracting to the club for the entire year. Tht is why BB is right. Say nothing in pubic until a path forward is agreed.   Yes, if they kept a trade under wraps until after it was done there would be supporters lambasting the club.  But that would be the end of it (assuming not many head to the microwave with their memebrship cards).

10 minutes ago, RedButMostlyBlue said:

Thanks for the profile pic, ManDee! Love it. It's so me....and it's red, but mostly blue. Perfect!

You're welcome RBMB,  welcome to the nut house.