On 17/10/2017 at 10:27, Dr. Gonzo said:

Nah he wasn't the only one. I think Oliver did too - difference is after having a "chat" with him the kid pulled his finger out and pushed himself to win the club b&f by a street in his second season 

And when Watts did get ready, for R1, he played well. Umpires gave him votes in R3

  On 17/10/2017 at 10:27, Dr. Gonzo said:

Nah he wasn't the only one. I think Oliver did too - difference is after having a "chat" with him the kid pulled his finger out and pushed himself to win the club b&f by a street in his second season 

Quite possibly Gonzo. There are two sides to every coin.  Jack certainly didnt finish well, but he wasn't alone there.  And others barely got started after a few attempts also but are still on the list (to this point anyway).

  On 17/10/2017 at 10:28, Sargent Shultz said:

see you and raise you 10 from 2011-13

Mitch Clisby

James Sellar

Josh Tynan

Rory Taggert

Michael Evans

Divid Nicholson

Dean Terlich

Matt Jones

Jimmy Toumpas

Jay Kennedy Harris

 

I have no idea where to start. Oh, yes I do. That bit about 2011-13.

  On 17/10/2017 at 10:12, sue said:

It's depressing if that is true.   Very depressing.

Unfortunately Sue, this is only scratching the surface. I think in earlier posts i 'predicted' that these (Weids) sentiments would be held by most of the players. But i got shouted down. Hahaha. Wonder how long it will be before more sentiments like this come out from other players

I am very sad to see Jack go and regret that he was unable to fulfil his potential with the mighty Dees. I wish him all the very best with Port Power.  Now have to change my password.

  On 17/10/2017 at 09:11, Hell Bent said:

Disappointed to see him go, but Im all for the club setting standards and letting the playing group know what is not acceptable.

Weve played this pretty badly however, we could have got even a late teens draft pick if we didnt air all the dirty laundry, and certainly could have avoided paying any of his salary.

One thing that intrigues me though, why were there only 2 clubs really interested? Definitely more to this than we will ever know.

Good Luck Jack, i wish you well mate.

We got the market rate. There were only 2 clubs interested, and the Cats were lukewarm. Only 2 clubs. When Jack should be entering his prime aged 26, with 150 games under his belt, only 2 clubs were interested. Yep. His market value is less than his natural talent warrants. To me thats more about Jack, and perhaps the pre Roos Dees, than about how we handled his departure.

This thing about club culture and the tough stance mark neeld anyone? It doesnt work with the younger generation , look what won the tiges the flag this year? Hardwick brought the group together , the watts sacking could have a lasting confusing effect on the playing group. 

  On 17/10/2017 at 10:35, ChewyOnMyBoot said:

Unfortunately Sue, this is only scratching the surface. I think in earlier posts i 'predicted' that these (Weids) sentiments would be held by most of the players. But i got shouted down. Hahaha. Wonder how long it will be before more sentiments like this come out from other players

I'd rather look at it as a learning lesson for the list to know what's expected of them. If Jack's a player that other high draft pick youngsters look up to, then the jettison is worthwhile. HTFU!

The moral is NO MORE HIGHLY PAID PASSENGERS WHO DO NOT PREPARE OR PERFORM TO EXPECTATIONS

  On 17/10/2017 at 10:41, CityDee said:

This thing about club culture and the tough stance mark neeld anyone? It doesnt work with the younger generation , look what won the tiges the flag this year? Hardwick brought the group together , the watts sacking could have a lasting confusing effect on the playing group. 

I think it was also the overhaul of the FD and its set up though City.  Apparently someone convinced Hardwick (maybe himself through a course he attended in the U.S. pre-season i believe) of the benefits of running a tight ship but at the same time passing on some key powers and responsibilities to trusted underlings vs his prior style of wanting to micro manage every aspect himself as much as was possible.

  On 17/10/2017 at 10:41, CityDee said:

This thing about club culture and the tough stance mark neeld anyone?

Comparisons between Mark Neeld's school-principal posturing and Simon Goodwin and Peter Jackson's concerted efforts to instill cultural change at the MFC are just so so wide of the mark as to engender absolute genuine disbelief. Or in internet parlance: I don't even . . .

And this is before examining their respective records.

I'm too pi$$ed off to write too much... But I am fuming at this, bloke has been their through thick & thin, stuck it out for years during the [censored] times only to be kicked to the kerb when he and the club have started to turn it around.. On top of this we then trade him for unders to a side who we will be directly battling for a spot in the 8, so we have boosted Ports list while damaging ours.. Good job Goodwin & Mahoney, d!ckheads

  On 17/10/2017 at 10:17, mo64 said:

Yep. Chalk and cheese compared to Watts. McDonald and Bruce didn't get drafted from the TAC, and had to work there butt off to make it. Both got the most out of their abilities. Fantastic examples to younger players. Watts has never been in the LG. 

The decision to cut McDonald was terrible, but the Bruce decision was based on length of contract. 

And I hope Sam Weid learns quickly that the ultimate club player is different to the ultimate club professional.

Yes my point is not whether the FD got this right or wrong, pick 31 and still picking up a percentage of Jack's wage is testing me, it is just that they have a contengency plan for the Watts trade fall out and sell it well to the playing list. 

This is vital for next year. 

  On 17/10/2017 at 10:44, Rusty Nails said:

I think it was also the overhaul of the FD and its set up though City.  Apparently someone convinced Hardwick (maybe himself through a course he attended in the U.S. pre-season i believe) of the benefits of running a tight ship but at the same time passing on some key powers and responsibilities to trusted underlings vs his prior style of wanting to micro manage every aspect himself as much as was possible.

Yeah he said that he wasnt the person his wife married!! And the group would have sharing sessions each player had to share somthing with the group ( initiated by a consultant apparently) Rewoildt said the previous year they couldnt wait to get out of the place due to the vibe this year was obviously different .

I worry that we are making a mistake with the Watts trade in regards to the group . Time will tell . 

We now have two great Adelaide games to attend. One we involve laughter at the Crows expense, the other will involve tears. Goody just tore us apart. Don't ask me, you know it's true. But some of us don't know why.

  On 17/10/2017 at 10:37, demoniac said:

We got the market rate. There were only 2 clubs interested, and the Cats were lukewarm. Only 2 clubs. When Jack should be entering his prime aged 26, with 150 games under his belt, only 2 clubs were interested. Yep. His market value is less than his natural talent warrants. To me thats more about Jack, and perhaps the pre Roos Dees, than about how we handled his departure.

Do you think there were actually only two clubs interested? Could it be that Jack was only interested in those two clubs?  As if he was going to go to Perth, Brisbane or the Gold Coast.  Or Carlton for that matter, after years of lack of success he wanted to go somewhere that might play finals that wasn't the other end of the country.  Stkilda had a go too.  He wasn't wanted at MFC 

  On 17/10/2017 at 10:33, Skuit said:

I have no idea where to start. Oh, yes I do. That bit about 2011-13.

Because I am a helpful kind of person, let me join the dots for you.

The central point of my original post, was, that trading Watts for pick 31 was a bad deal because late draft picks don't usually excel. (and PLEAASSEE don't point out the few that do, of course, there is an exception to every rule)

If we go back to the 2012 draft, as an example, (so players from that draft have had 5 years to establish themselves) we find that those drafted in the top 10 have played about 90+ games on average.

Those drafted 11-20 have played on average 40 games.

Those drafted 21- 30 have played on average 32 games

Those drafted 31-40 have played on average only 20 games

Those drafted 41-50 games played on average < 20 games

So, we in all our wisdom have traded a 150 game player for a pick that on average will likely play 20 games 

But the really good part is we a paying PAFC for the privilege.

 

  On 17/10/2017 at 10:52, Skuit said:

Comparisons between Mark Neeld's school-principal posturing and Simon Goodwin and Peter Jackson's concerted efforts to instill cultural change at the MFC are just so so wide of the mark as to engender absolute genuine disbelief. Or in internet parlance: I don't even . . .

And this is before examining their respective records.

Thats right they have given a neeld esque wack and its put most offside and that will include the playing group im sure. 

 

  On 17/10/2017 at 10:56, CityDee said:

Thats right they have given a neeld esque wack and its put most offside and that will include the playing group im sure. 

 

Utter bulltish

  On 17/10/2017 at 10:18, sue said:

The depressing thing is that Sam does not understand why he was moved on, thought Watts was doing OK.  Surely you see that?  If this is true, then the communciation of the 'message' to the younger team members is a disaster.

C'mon...you make Weideman sound like he's 10 years old.

If there's any message to be taken on board here for current players, it's that if you aren't doing the things the football department expect, then you will be moved on and no player is exempt.

 

  On 17/10/2017 at 10:35, ChewyOnMyBoot said:

Unfortunately Sue, this is only scratching the surface. I think in earlier posts i 'predicted' that these (Weids) sentiments would be held by most of the players. But i got shouted down. Hahaha. Wonder how long it will be before more sentiments like this come out from other players

Players upset with the coach are nothing new for the mfc or any other club in the world.

Goodwin will be judged on w & ls.... like every other coach 

It is simple. The footy club wanted him gone. Nothing more nothing less. Why I don't know. As big of a mistake that supporters feel it could be a coup. Who knows.

  On 17/10/2017 at 10:43, Moonshadow said:

I'd rather look at it as a learning lesson for the list to know what's expected of them. If Jack's a player that other high draft pick youngsters look up to, then the jettison is worthwhile. HTFU!

The moral is NO MORE HIGHLY PAID PASSENGERS WHO DO NOT PREPARE OR PERFORM TO EXPECTATIONS

Yeah, so would I.  But if that report is true (note the if) then it would appear that the FD has not given the lesson to the players.  The only reason I'm not too depressed (yet) is that I can't imagine the FD being so stupid as to not have made it clear to the players why this is happening well before now.

  On 17/10/2017 at 10:56, Sargent Shultz said:

Because I am a helpful kind of person, let me join the dots for you.

The central point of my original post, was, that trading Watts for pick 31 was a bad deal because late draft picks don't usually excel. (and PLEAASSEE don't point out the few that do, of course, there is an exception to every rule)

If we go back to the 2012 draft, as an example, (so players from that draft have had 5 years to establish themselves) we find that those drafted in the top 10 have played about 90+ games on average.

Those drafted 11-20 have played on average 40 games.

Those drafted 21- 30 have played on average 32 games

Those drafted 31-40 have played on average only 20 games

Those drafted 41-50 games played on average < 20 games

So, we in all our wisdom have traded a 150 game player for a pick that on average will likely play 20 games 

But the really good part is we a paying PAFC for the privilege.

 

You are committing so many logical fallacies that I'm going to join in by not joining in and go straight for argumentum ad lapidem in response.

  On 17/10/2017 at 10:29, Hunt29 said:

 

In the end a good deal for Port. However realistically we wouldn't have expected much or anymore than 25. Unfortunately for Melbourne Port the only club willing to cough up. Geelong were keen but apparently wanted to flip us a pick in the 50s. 
We pay a part of Watts salary. Big deal this happens all the time. Especially when the club is offloading a player. It's not like we're going to be paying his whole salary. 
There are obviously some issues with Watts. Mahoney alluding to some preparation issues but said it was mainly that after 9 years he hasn't performed tomthe expected level. I think reading between the lines of the recent Jones Goodwin and Mahoney interviews they expect more from him outside of performances for a 9 year player. Probably not setting the example. 
In terms of team structure we have brought Lever in and will likely play Tmac forward with Hogan and possibly Weideman/Pedersen. Or we'll go more mobile with Vandenberg or Tim Smith as options who provide pressure. 
Anyway sad to see Watts go as he was a fan favourite over the years. But I'll back the footy department.

 

me too. sad to see him go but sadder when we lost to Collingwood.

Gotta have faith in the footy department And what they're creating.

  On 17/10/2017 at 11:02, dl4e said:

It is simple. The footy club wanted him gone. Nothing more nothing less. Why I don't know. As big of a mistake that supporters feel it could be a coup. Who knows.

Let's hope the surviving members of the playing list know the reasons why! That is my point.