1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

it's a very good question. It comes multi barbed I warn.

Ask yourself about that question...possibly...why is Watts the be all and end all of the culture of the club ....supposedly...why is he assigned lepper status.....just .....why ??

People are not always bright. Even people upon high. 

Doesn't answer the question. At all. 

34 minutes ago, trout said:

Will be nothing compared to the sack Simon Goodwin thread next year if we don't play finals. 

I'll back a 2nd year coach with a bad season but not a 9th year player.

18 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Team A:. G.   P.

Team B  G.  P.

See where I'm going ? 

not really

I'm enjoying the short replies

17 minutes ago, Goodvibes said:

You've asserted that our senior coach and others within the footy dept have a grudge against Watts. The responsibility is on you to provide the proof.

Plain as the nose on your face. You don't have to be a genius to work that out. Can you prove my assertion is wrong?

2 minutes ago, grazman said:

not really

Its always about a team thing...team roles etc in the modern vernacular

and more importantly about the scoreboard.

Tackles per se is irrelavant other than as a TEAM stat as it depends on who is supposed to do watt  ..i mean what

You bringing up Watts tackles as if it's imperative !!  bogus

1 minute ago, Bobby McKenzie said:

Plain as the nose on your face.

That's not evidence.

1 hour ago, Goodvibes said:

rpfc makes a fair point - in the past there has always been a chorus telling the naysayers to pipe down but comparing what happened under Schwab or Neeld with what has happened over the past three years since Goodwin has been at the club is unfair.

I am comparing the jarring response to criticism of the current admin. That even is what TGR is comparing. Nothing more. If someone goes further than that it doesn't diminish the relevant points made.

Goodwin has motivated the players to play an excellent brand of footy (for most of the year), he made a great impression on his former coach and I know the players have a great relationship with him (at least I knew that first hand as late as the end of last season).

Mahoney and the rest of the FD appear to be excellent operators and the deals they have facilitated  the last few years that netted us Oliver and Weideman were un-Melbourne like and that is a compliment.

But the 'facts' as they stand - if one can call them that - are not great in this particular instance. I think we, and they, can be grown ups about it and perhaps admit that it hasn't been handled as well as they would have liked.

As Jack Watts will soon face a consequence of the decisions he has made in his career - so must we all...

12 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Doesn't answer the question. At all. 

who ? me  ..or you?

You raised the idea about what the real question was about. i agree.

it's not Watts..that's the hint. The question is about the Club, the FD, its direction.. etc 

Noway can Watts accommodate all of that...so therefore what is the QUESTION ?

You're bright enough...figure it out.

 

15 minutes ago, rpfc said:

I am comparing the jarring response to criticism of the current admin. That even is what TGR is comparing. Nothing more. If someone goes further than that it doesn't diminish the relevant points made.

Goodwin has motivated the players to play an excellent brand of footy (for most of the year), he made a great impression on his former coach and I know the players have a great relationship with him (at least I knew that first hand as late as the end of last season).

Mahoney and the rest of the FD appear to be excellent operators and the deals they have facilitated  the last few years that netted us Oliver and Weideman were un-Melbourne like and that is a compliment.

But the 'facts' as they stand - if one can call them that - are not great in this particular instance. I think we, and they, can be grown ups about it and perhaps admit that it hasn't been handled as well as they would have liked.

As Jack Watts will soon face a consequence of the decisions he has made in his career - so must we all...

Yep, this is fair enough. Agree with it all, but for Bobby to say Goodwin has a grudge against Watts without any inside knowledge or shred of proof, is just pathetic really.

Edited October 10, 20178 yr by A F

Can one of the mods kindly ban me from looking at this thread any further..

 

25 minutes ago, Unleash Hell said:

That is correct.

But now it's also about structure and how players fit in to that structure. And that's the point here ppl are missing

Maybe its just me...but I reckon any team looking to snag jack is ALL about structure and where he advantages then in such.

Is that what you are suggesting ?

My judgement has been a little clouded given the way Jacks second half of season played out, but I'm now firmly back in the "I desperately want him to stay" camp.

He plays forward, he plays back, he can play on the wing and he can even do a better than average job in the ruck. He is one of the best kicks in the team, one of the best decision makers, one of the few you dont worry about when he has the ball and probably the one you'd bet your house on to kick the goal after the siren for a win.

How many other players do we have like that?

If he goes, who in our team is genuinely capable of stepping up to replace him and cover all those gaps? 

Other players are going to get injured, lose form or get suspended. What if that all happens at the same time again like we saw this season?

Who here genuinely believes we would have been in the positiion we got to this season without him being there? 

We want to be a club with a lot of multi dimensional, multi skilled players and Jack would be one of - if not THE - best we have.

Why get rid of him now when at the very worst he is an exceptional, multi faceted depth player?  

Because he has "currency"? Is what we are probably getting in return really worth more than what he brings to the team?  

Players like Jack dont grow on trees and I struggling to see him leaving as anything other than a big step backwards.

I really, really hope the club knows and understands what it is doing here. I sure dont. 

3 minutes ago, rpfc said:

I think we, and they, can be grown ups about it and perhaps admit that it hasn't been handled as well as they would have liked.

Don't agree. Getting rid of a well-liked player is always going to cause angst and a backlash. There's no way of "handling it" that that doesn't happen. The statements coming out of the club have been measured and reasonable, no-one's publicly trashing Watts.

If you want an example of a club badly handling a player leaving, look at the Adelaide/Lever situation, where the club (and players/captain) have gone out of their way to crucify him.

4 minutes ago, rpfc said:

I am comparing the jarring response to criticism of the current admin. That even is what TGR is comparing. Nothing more. If someone goes further than that it doesn't diminish the relevant points made.

Goodwin has motivated the players to play an excellent brand of footy (for most of the year), he made a great impression on his former coach and I know the players have a great relationship with him (at least I knew that first hand as late as the end of last season).

Mahoney and the rest of the FD appear to be excellent operators and the deals they have facilitated  the last few years that netted us Oliver and Weideman were un-Melbourne like and that is a compliment.

But the 'facts' as they stand - if one can call them that - are not great in this particular instance. I think we, and they, can be grown ups about it and perhaps admit that it hasn't been handled as well as they would have liked.

As Jack Watts will soon face a consequence of the decisions he has made in his career - so must we all...

So you're point is sometimes people rush in to support their footy club?

My point is that this footy dept and the previous footy depts. are different. Intelligent posters on this forum saw the warning signs very early on in Neeld's time. All evidence points to Goodwin and the rest of the footy dept steering this team in the right direction. When the evidence is positive, I think support is deserving. And at the very least, Goodwin has done enough already for this footy club for supporter to think twice before slagging him off because they disagree with one decision.

This thread is next level cray. 

There is so much wrong going on in here, I hope to god this isn't a reflection of the way the club is dealing with this internally. 

I'm out. 

4 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Maybe its just me...but I reckon any team looking to snag jack is ALL about structure and where he advantages then in such.

Is that what you are suggesting ?

EXACTLY my point, but in a few chapters less....  :/

Just now, Jaded said:

This thread is next level cray. 

There is so much wrong going on in here, I hope to god this isn't a reflection of the way the club is dealing with this internally. 

I'm out. 

bye

3 hours ago, Deecisive said:

 

if Jack was running 6th in our b&F after 14 or so rounds, can someone tell me how long has Jack been in the rut for!

2008

56 minutes ago, Bobby McKenzie said:

Because Goodwin and company have personal grudges against Watts overridng their clear thinking on the matter. I just hope Goodwin is not plain dumb and can see his folly. Lost a lot of faith in him and in Jones who ratted on Jack according to reports. Used to love Jonesy.

Yep, I believe that the footy department do not Repeat DO NOT know a sliver of Gold from a piece of Horse apple!

You reap what you sow!

This decision will define many next year. Be prepared for some Angst! 

Demonland meltdown a certainty!

 

1 minute ago, Goodvibes said:

So you're point is sometimes people rush in to support their footy club?

My point is that this footy dept and the previous footy depts. are different. Intelligent posters on this forum saw the warning signs very early on in Neeld's time. All evidence points to Goodwin and the rest of the footy dept steering this team in the right direction. When the evidence is positive, I think support is deserving. And at the very least, Goodwin has done enough already for this footy club for supporter to think twice before slagging him off because they disagree with one decision.

rushing to support is one thing... 

by your own rationale should some not be allowed to consider Goodwin in their own fashion ?

I see NO evidence that unequivocally supports  Goodwin. I see scores that suggest he's dong OK. I see doings that suggest he''s pigheaded and an idiot !!   that's my view of course. Neeld wasn't entirely wrong. What makes you think Goodwin at this early juncture is SO right ?  Seriously ..i'm interested. Am sure others are

Just doing my bit to steer this ship to 150 pages. Please ignore this post.

19 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Its always about a team thing...team roles etc in the modern vernacular

and more importantly about the scoreboard.

Tackles per se is irrelavant other than as a TEAM stat as it depends on who is supposed to do watt  ..i mean what

You bringing up Watts tackles as if it's imperative !!  bogus

Pffft...is that your best Trump impersonation?

Edited October 10, 20178 yr by grazman

1 minute ago, grazman said:

Pffft

thankyou

5 minutes ago, JTR said:

My judgement has been a little clouded given the way Jacks second half of season played out, but I'm now firmly back in the "I desperately want him to stay" camp.

He plays forward, he plays back, he can play on the wing and he can even do a better than average job in the ruck. He is one of the best kicks in the team, one of the best decision makers, one of the few you dont worry about when he has the ball and probably the one you'd bet your house on to kick the goal after the siren for a win.

How many other players do we have like that?

If he goes, who in our team is genuinely capable of stepping up to replace him and cover all those gaps? 

Other players are going to get injured, lose form or get suspended. What if that all happens at the same time again like we saw this season?

Who here genuinely believes we would have been in the positiion we got to this season without him being there? 

We want to be a club with a lot of multi dimensional, multi skilled players and Jack would be one of - if not THE - best we have.

Why get rid of him now when at the very worst he is an exceptional, multi faceted depth player?  

Because he has "currency"? Is what we are probably getting in return really worth more than what he brings to the team?  

Players like Jack dont grow on trees and I struggling to see him leaving as anything other than a big step backwards.

I really, really hope the club knows and understands what it is doing here. I sure dont. 

Too late

He'll look great in hoops

Even a spud like Hawkins may kick 100 goals with Dangerfield, Selwood and WATTS hitting him on the chest, lace out, every time