17 hours ago, ProDee said:

Reconciliation assumes there's a divide.

I don't see that.

That's the definition of a divide.

8 minutes ago, bing181 said:

That's the definition of a divide.

Perhaps I should have said, there's an unnecessary divide.

But thanks for your insightful contribution.

"minorities walk among us by the grace of our God"

8 minutes ago, willmoy said:

"minorities walk among us by the grace of our God"

"everyone is a minority"

4 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

"everyone is a minority"

Except Aliens....

7 hours ago, ProDee said:

Let me elaborate.  

There is huge Aboriginal disadvantage, but 'reconciliation' hasn't had positive outcomes within Aboriginal communities.

Reconciliation week started in the 1990's yet today Aboriginal women are 31 times more likely to be hospitalised by their partner.  High jail rates continue, as does low life expectancy and school attendance.  

The sooner reconciliation is abandoned for more progressive measures and the sooner Aboriginal leaders start embracing the future and not the past then we might start seeing a difference to the quality of life in Aboriginal communities.

For me, there shouldn't be a divide between our indigenous communities and broader Australia and the "blame games" linked to 'reconciliation' don't enhance our Aboriginal communities.

Reconciliation started with Aboriginal folk being granted the vote after a referendum. Some of the landmark achievements include Royal Commisions into deaths in custody, the Stolen generation, the apology, etc...

To claim the Reconciliation process should be abandoned because there is still issues to overcome or that the Reconciliation process has failed is ignorant twaddle to be generous, racist dog whistling to be less so. 

You should stick to footy discussions Pro, as talking on behalf of the Indigenous people is really not your thing. 

 

Edited July 20, 20178 yr by PaulRB

7 hours ago, ProDee said:

Let me elaborate.  

There is huge Aboriginal disadvantage, but 'reconciliation' hasn't had positive outcomes within Aboriginal communities.

Reconciliation week started in the 1990's yet today Aboriginal women are 31 times more likely to be hospitalised by their partner.  High jail rates continue, as does low life expectancy and school attendance.  

The sooner reconciliation is abandoned for more progressive measures and the sooner Aboriginal leaders start embracing the future and not the past then we might start seeing a difference to the quality of life in Aboriginal communities.

For me, there shouldn't be a divide between our indigenous communities and broader Australia and the "blame games" linked to 'reconciliation' don't enhance our Aboriginal communities.

I can see that point of view but I think these things have to be done hand in hand. Recognition and symbolism are an important part of it - obviously it means nothing if real progress isn't made though as you've rightfully pointed out.

It's not all about responsibility by indigenous communities - the broader community and the government that has a mandate to care for ALL its constituents needs to take up its own slack as well, of which there has been much since colonisation. Domestic violence is an issue, so is access to decent facilities and resources (eg medical care). Most of the issues you've raised are not inherent to indigenous communities, they're inherent to poverty stricken communities regardless of race or creed.

Edited July 20, 20178 yr by Dr. Gonzo

8 hours ago, ProDee said:

Btw, I'm glad you raised this particular point.

I recently donated a "Backpack bed" for the homeless.  The first week of August is "homelessness week".

Here's the link, chap.  They could do with your and everyone else's support.

https://swags.org.au/shop/donation-homeless-backpack-bed/

I don't contribute to he homeless since I saw one come out of a carpark in Lonsdale St, put his keys away, drop the swag, check his mobile, then pull hood over his head, sit down abd look sad

6 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

I don't contribute to he homeless since I saw one come out of a carpark in Lonsdale St, put his keys away, drop the swag, check his mobile, then pull hood over his head, sit down abd look sad

These backpack beds go to the right people.

But if it's any consolation I knew you wouldn't fork out.

Ahh, the good old Aboriginal Rights Industry in full swing. Gotta love it.

as soon as the victim hood bs stops , he sooner these people can get on with progressing in the 21st century

On 19/07/2017 at 7:17 PM, Skuit said:

Anyone have any idea how to circumvent the Age paywall when you've used up all your freebies

Note: found the Jurrah article it in the SMH.

Google the headline and you usually can see the full article. Same goes for HS.

On 19/07/2017 at 9:47 PM, ProDee said:

But I am contributing.  I don't like the "plan".  I don't like the division.  I don't like the view that the MFC is supposedly not reconciled.

Clearly. I have a different view to you.  

I'm not into race politics.

This is real 1950's stuff.

Clearly you have never had to manage groups of people. People management at its most basic references that people are different from each other, particularly races, gender, religion. The most successful organisations are those who manage that best so they make sure they get the best out of people individually and collectively.

Study after study have identified by far the most successful organisations in the world are those with a high degree of diversity, but they have concious policies which recognise difference but treat everyone on merit so they get the best out of everyone no matter what their backgrounds. They also have systematic processes which promote cross-fertilisation of new ideas particularly across those differences. You might also say this about countries aka Australia, Canada, NZ, and prior to Trump the US. 

Indiginous footballers rightly are seen as one of the AFL's great strengths, many with sublime skills which only they seem to possess. They are therefore over represented in the AFL when compared to their population (I think something like 3% of the population versus 14% of AFL players). 

The AFL in general, and the MFC in particular, would be very much the poorer without them. For the MFC not to develop a program which maximises our chances of being able to attract the best of them, would frankly be a major gap in the professional running of what is now an elite talent club.

Edited July 20, 20178 yr by Dees2014

15 hours ago, daisycutter said:

"everyone is a minority"

I always thought everyone found me hysterically funny. I have subsequently found that I am in the minority.

1 hour ago, Dees2014 said:

This is real 1950's stuff.

Clearly you have never had to manage groups of people. People management at its most basic references that people are different from each other, particularly races, gender, religion. The most successful organisations are those who manage that best so they make sure they get the best out of people individually and collectively.

Study after study have identified by far the most successful organisations in the world are those with a high degree of diversity, but they have concious policies which recognise difference but treat everyone on merit so they get the best out of everyone no matter what their backgrounds. They also have systematic processes which promote cross-fertilisation of new ideas particularly across those differences. You might also say this about countries aka Australia, Canada, NZ, and prior to Trump the US. 

Indiginous footballers rightly are seen as one of the AFL's great strengths, many with sublime skills which only they seem to possess. They are therefore over represented in the AFL when compared to their population (I think something like 3% of the population versus 14% of AFL players). 

The AFL in general, and the MFC in particular, would be very much the poorer without them. For the MFC not to develop a program which maximises our chances of being able to attract the best of them, would frankly be a major gap in the professional running of what is now an elite talent club.

Pure waffle.

On 19/07/2017 at 7:05 PM, Luther said:

How do you mean?

Guess I am just dreaming of the next Wonna or Jurrah coming through....  or more importantly, a nice succession plan for Jeffy.

I see Dion had 13 tackles last game for Casey and was named in the best despite only a handful of possession .... his defensive side is already there, which is cause for optimism.

Edited July 20, 20178 yr by Petraccattack

9 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

I don't contribute to he homeless since I saw one come out of a carpark in Lonsdale St, put his keys away, drop the swag, check his mobile, then pull hood over his head, sit down abd look sad

Saty, they are called cons. They're essentially thieves and id no sooner give to them than the majority of those that would block my path to a supermarket or verbally accost me at the Mall. There are however genuine folk who are indeed homeless and who do it rough. Not all want to be there I can assure you.

That bloke...you should have taken a pic of his car rego...then of him faux begging and passed it on to plod !!

45 minutes ago, Petraccattack said:

Guess I am just dreaming of the next Wonna or Jurrah coming through....  or more importantly, a nice succession plan for Jeffy.

I see Dion had 13 tackles last game for Casey and was named in the best despite only a handful of possession .... his defensive side is already there, which is cause for optimism.

Something close to those guys would be a great addition to the side, but does Dion have that X factor? I haven't seen a lot of him so forgive me if I'm wrong, but he looked a bit more like a working class small forward. Clearly works very hard defensively though, which is great as you say.

On 19 July 2017 at 9:47 PM, ProDee said:

But I am contributing.  I don't like the "plan".  I don't like the division.  I don't like the view that the MFC is supposedly not reconciled.

Clearly. I have a different view to you.  

I'm not into race politics.

Yes you are. 

 

Any readers who aren't aware, have a look at some of Prodee's anti-Muslim bile on the General forum (he may argue that it's not racist, as Islam is a religion, not a race, but the two are intertwined and it's certainly divisive).

13 minutes ago, Jara said:

Any readers who aren't aware, have a look at some of Prodee's anti-Muslim bile on the General forum (he may argue that it's not racist, as Islam is a religion, not a race, but the two are intertwined and it's certainly divisive).

Demonland's dark web (aka the General forum) is a very, very scary place. It is land of pseudo science, rejection of logic, anger, angst and dividing everything in a neat left - right binary (with the mean crazy lefties waging their PC war against the real hard done by minorities - middle class, older white men who want things to go back to how they used to be). It is remarkably similar to the  comments section in the Hun. Go there are your own peril.

1 minute ago, Jara said:

Yes you are. 

 

Any readers who aren't aware, have a look at some of Prodee's anti-Muslim bile on the General forum (he may argue that it's not racist, as Islam is a religion, not a race, but the two are intertwined and it's certainly divisive).

Actually Islam is barely a religion. Its an ideology as most of it is politically based..always has been. Keep in mind politics are as old as...well...man. In the same way there's a distinction between Judaism and Jews. One might also suggest there's a difference of a kind between Muslims and Islam. It all gets very very murky and more often than not depends on who's saying what ...and for why. I'm totally open to the notion that nearly all the "good book"  style  religions are in essence political. Doesnt seem to matter who's book or how you go about reading them they all have their barrows to push, all laying claims to eh hearts and minds of populaces and those running them  want to have the folks abiding THEIR views. Politics/Power/ Religions  hmmm.... hard to find lines between it all.

A problem when we come to discussions such as the RAP  , or homelessness, or 'divides' is many a time the writer brings with them a 'one size fits all' caveat. It rarely ever does. I applaud the club for doing something as it obviously felt it was needed. There are indeed different cultural backgrounds to the many players and the indigenous make up a sizable proportion of the league. I applaud the notion of inclusiveness.  I must confess I'm a little conflicted though as this is by no means a cut and dried , dare I say black and white area of attention.

There's is to me a possible worry in the difference between recognising one's heritage and ramming it down others throats. There also the danger in the balance between understanding where we come from and wanting to be part of a greater and by overdoing it and in turn exasperating the difference.

There is no one indigenous background as there is no one european background. There is no one homeless situation any more than there is one Family model. Do we need to also strike an accord for any playing the game who hail from overseas ?

We all have our foibles. Personally I just take people ( all people) as they come. You're either good bad or whatever. It seems to this observer there are as many of any desirable ( as indeed undesirable ) traits from as many backgrounds as you choose to find.

As good an idea as RAP is I do struggle tbh with reconciliation but only as the dialogue seems hijacked many a year ago. If it were to simply the construct to allow all to be together and acknowledge we all have worth then fine. To give special allowance for 'anyone' I feel only serves to reinforce a divide whether real or imaginary.

All in all i'd like to think ALL were always welcome at the MFC with or without any particular nod to him, him  or her  !!

I sometimes wonder if we as an animal all to often look to over complicate.

22 hours ago, ProDee said:

Let me elaborate.  

There is huge Aboriginal disadvantage, but 'reconciliation' hasn't had positive outcomes within Aboriginal communities.

Reconciliation week started in the 1990's yet today Aboriginal women are 31 times more likely to be hospitalised by their partner.  High jail rates continue, as does low life expectancy and school attendance.  

The sooner reconciliation is abandoned for more progressive measures and the sooner Aboriginal leaders start embracing the future and not the past then we might start seeing a difference to the quality of life in Aboriginal communities.

For me, there shouldn't be a divide between our indigenous communities and broader Australia and the "blame games" linked to 'reconciliation' don't enhance our Aboriginal communities.

I do a bit of work with our local Indigenous Communities and Traditional Owners and they are a varied mob, just like all of Australia. Yes there are members of the community who want to point fingers and blame people, but the ones who are getting things done and closing the gap on both sides are the ones who recognise the past for what it was as it is that past which puts the current into context and allows us to move towards a better brighter future for all. 

I think many get stuck in that the past is something along time ago when in fact things like the stolen generation were done to living members of the community and the general disadvantage is still prevalent today. Looking at why that is and why it has been and acknowledging that is the only way to actually truely move forward. The groups I work with now are fantastic, they will tell you about the past and teach you their stories without blame or malice but as just statements of fact, through that understanding it has made my life much easier to understand their motives and their thoughts on certain things.

1 minute ago, Chris said:

I do a bit of work with our local Indigenous Communities and Traditional Owners and they are a varied mob, just like all of Australia. Yes there are members of the community who want to point fingers and blame people, but the ones who are getting things done and closing the gap on both sides are the ones who recognise the past for what it was as it is that past which puts the current into context and allows us to move towards a better brighter future for all. 

I think many get stuck in that the past is something along time ago when in fact things like the stolen generation were done to living members of the community and the general disadvantage is still prevalent today. Looking at why that is and why it has been and acknowledging that is the only way to actually truely move forward. The groups I work with now are fantastic, they will tell you about the past and teach you their stories without blame or malice but as just statements of fact, through that understanding it has made my life much easier to understand their motives and their thoughts on certain things.

Thanks.

2 hours ago, nutbean said:

I always thought everyone found me hysterically funny. I have subsequently found that I am in the minority.

Nut - are you in the minority of people who are hysterically funny, or the minority of people who find you hysterically funny?

53 minutes ago, binman said:

Demonland's dark web (aka the General forum) is a very, very scary place. It is land of pseudo science, rejection of logic, anger, angst and dividing everything in a neat left - right binary (with the mean crazy lefties waging their PC war against the real hard done by minorities - middle class, older white men who want things to go back to how they used to be). It is remarkably similar to the  comments section in the Hun. Go there are your own peril.

Your summation is accurate binman, despite the dismissive responses of those above. Went there once or twice in the past. It's so clichéd, repetative and predictable that it's worthless, especially on a footy forum, ffs!

Now it's infecting the main board. Great...

11 hours ago, ProDee said:

These backpack beds go to the right people.

But if it's any consolation I knew you wouldn't fork out.

The point I was trying to make was you are generalising about Indigenous people, depending on sample size and the environment you can skew any statistic 

The backpack beds are being sold on to buy drugs and alcohol, know somebody who works in that sector, you really are naive