Andrew Leoncelli - Hero

[hemingway 7,615]

3 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Al true

Irrelevant to the days fiasco

Agree with sentiment

Yeah gone off on a tangent, but that tends to happen to me these days. 

[beelzebub 23,313]

Just now, Ethan Tremblay said:

You forgot to mention donuts BB! I mean, that has everything to do with the arguments you've put up so far. 

Ethan Ethan 

When did your ability to discern sarcasm from commentary ?

Keep looking.

As alluded a friend ( was a senior lead in that Waverley takedown of the lad conspiring ) has eyebrows raised. Ill take a cue from that . Ok ?

[Beetle 4,601]

13 minutes ago, hemingway said:

Thankless task. Those at the coal face put their bodies and lives on the line in an increasingly dangerous world. 

In the old days they would "walk the beat" to break up fights and maintain order. Most louts stopped when they saw the boys in blue. However, police are now subjected to unprovoked attacks from gangs and simply those under the influence alcohol and drugs. They are also at the front line of terrorist attacks and attacks from deranged individuals many of whom carry weapons. 

In the City of Melbourne, it has become increasingly difficult to roster police to walk the beat because of unprovoked attacks. They are increasingly required to bring in officers from the wider metropolitan area and even country stations.  

Like all organizations there are some rotten apples but the majority of police officers are decent individuals with all the same feelings and attitudes like the rest of us. 

Unfortunately,  have a high rate of suicide, PTSD and other mental health issues and many leave the force never to work again. 

Most of us would not last a day in the job. 

I for one appreciate your sentiments hemingway.

[Ethan Tremblay 30,826]

2 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Ethan Ethan 

When did your ability to discern sarcasm from commentary ?

Keep looking.

As alluded a friend ( was a senior lead in that Waverley takedown of the lad conspiring ) has eyebrows raised. Ill take a cue from that . Ok ?

Well... now that you've alluded to having a friend in the know.. that you can't name.. in an Internet forum.. whilst using a made up username.. 

Close thread! 

[Monocology 1,109]

6 hours ago, beelzebub said:

fmd ...Keystone Cops time 

"It is understood the delay was partly caused by the failure of an on-call officer to respond to an emergency message. 

Officers responding to the crisis were further held up, after being unable to locate firearms and body armour, the source said."

(courtesy of The Aged ) 

Makes you feel all warm and fuzzy...and so safe  

Oh dear, like advertising for terrorism.

[beelzebub 23,313]

5 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Well... now that you've alluded to having a friend in the know.. that you can't name.. in an Internet forum.. whilst using a made up username.. 

Close thread! 

There you are. 

Dont care for reality..dont open door mate.

[DEE fence 5,004]

I love the footy smarts and general warm banter (drivel) that we share on here, and I really should breathe before I post. But most posting here have no effin clue about the Police. You have no idea how lucky you are and how dedicated the Police are that serve Victoria, that you pay for through your taxes, but you are getting value for money I can assure you. 

First of all - the Police approach to the use of force.

"The success of a mission will be judged by the extant to which the use of force is minimised" (its been 10 years since I read that but I think I'm fairly close)

The forward commander has to interact with an aircraft (you know a big thing with tonnes of flammable liquid and a few 100 people trapped inside) and a report of a bomb. Information received. It is not just an offender - there are two problems - someone offering a threat and the possibility of an explosive device. Fixing one does not fix the other and there is no bomb tech on the plane. 

There can be no assumptions in the response of the forward commander, unless lives are being actively lost/threatened, then every single piece of information about the device should be considered and evaluated and responded to. A bomb expert would need to process all this information to make an informed decision and then pass to the forward commander for a decision - how many of you have made a decision about the safety of someone elses life (and I'm not talking about driving your family around). Storming the plane might just set a bomb off, until you have verified that is unlikely why would you rush in the absence of any immediate threat to life. Would posters here prefer everyone go out in blaze of glory, so that we can have a high profile viking funeral for 330 passengers and crew and the Police response team.

Fair diunkum...no effin idea, just say thank you that you live in Victoria. Get over the media drivel on timelines, utter utter garbage. 

 

 

 

[Cards13 9,117]

3 hours ago, jnrmac said:

The cops said they thought there was a bomb on board so they waited 90mins. Holy cow. Probably looking for an Arabic translator and a sensitivity consultant on the assumption it was you-know-who.....

Hard to know what you would have done being on the plane but I am surprised no-one opened up the door and got the **** out of there.

 

If only Daniel Andrews had given them the green light earlier...

[Cards13 9,117]

2 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Unfortunately that's what it takes. If something were to go wrong and they didn't have a thorough briefing covering all scenario's, they'd be held accountable. 

The buggers can't [censored] win... as you said earlier we have no idea what transpired but if they went early and someone dies it is on them.. they go "late" and nothing happens and it is on them. 

[monoccular 17,413]

9 hours ago, the rolling fog said:

Great defensive pressure from 'Cell.

He's still got it!

Just as well Razor Ray or that clown McInerney weren't there - would have given the nutter a free for in the back, high tackle, low tackle or all three. 

6 hours ago, Cards13 said:

You've got to be pulling a leg? Airport security and AFP are run by a state government? 

It was Denial's  Keystone Cops who responded (eventually, sort of) for whatever reason - the same  amateur "force" who "watched and followed" a crazy violent driver, who don't forget was wanted for a stabbing, for so many  hours until he killed and maimed in Bourke Street.  

They were probably too busy behind some speed camera on a freeway trying to help balance the State books

Thanks, Leon Chelly, for doing what was needed!

[Ethan Tremblay 30,826]

15 minutes ago, Cards13 said:

The buggers can't [censored] win... as you said earlier we have no idea what transpired but if they went early and someone dies it is on them.. they go "late" and nothing happens and it is on them. 

Part of the procedure is to clear the points of entry/exit of any explosive devices. This in itself would take time once the plane has landed. And that's only one of the procedures. 

Bugger procedures though, Monday's heroes know better.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Ethan Tremblay

[Beetle 4,601]

5 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Part of the procedure is to clear the points of entry/exit of any explosive devices. This in itself would take time once the plain has landed. And that's only one of the procedures. 

Bugger procedures though, Monday's heroes know better.

 

[daisycutter 29,604]

1 hour ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

What other countries Police forces have you had interaction with? The worst in the world is the British police IMO. 

The leadership from the hierarchy is an issue no doubt, the officers on the ground don't trust them and know they won't back them up in the event something doesn't go right. 

We're now in a country where police are being sued civilly and also charged from within and lack backing from the general public. I can certainly understand the reluctancy for them to make a decision or get hands on. 

that may be true but that's not really what you said originally

[Ethan Tremblay 30,826]

2 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

that may be true but that's not really what you said originally

Plus a briefing, kitting up, roles and responsibilities etc etc. 

Sorry DC I just assumed everyone knew all of these things occurred during these types of incidents anyway..

[DEE fence 5,004]

There is a silver lining to this, with no lives lost, a number of different organizations got to plan and implement a response in the real world, and now be able to go away and look at what worked and what didn't. There is no way such a simulation could have been run. Including the presence of civilians, always a factor that brings huge pressure to participants. Truly invaluable in policing terms a full dress rehearsal of a grand final.

[daisycutter 29,604]

1 minute ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Plus a briefing, kitting up, roles and responsibilities etc etc. 

Sorry DC I just assumed everyone knew all of these things occurred during these types of incidents anyway..

no no ethan, you can't justify 60 mins + 90 mins to take final action when they had very good intel

btw i don't blame the individual coppers. they are operating with both hands tied behind their backs, it's the force management and the ideology weak politicians that appoint them and keep them on a tight leash that should take the blame. i wouldn't be a copper for all the tea in china with the lack of support they get. it's 186 every day. 

[DEE fence 5,004]

Spare a thought for Malaysian Airlines, poor bastards can't take a trick, they must have killed a truck load of black cats

[Moonshadow 17,675]

Surely this thread's run its course.

[Cards13 9,117]

1 hour ago, monoccular said:

Just as well Razor Ray or that clown McInerney weren't there - would have given the nutter a free for in the back, high tackle, low tackle or all three. 

It was Denial's  Keystone Cops who responded (eventually, sort of) for whatever reason - the same  amateur "force" who "watched and followed" a crazy violent driver, who don't forget was wanted for a stabbing, for so many  hours until he killed and maimed in Bourke Street.  

They were probably too busy behind some speed camera on a freeway trying to help balance the State books

Thanks, Leon Chelly, for doing what was needed!

Mono might pay for you to have a chat to Police one day to understand what they go through and the procedures, chain of command they need to follow before you make silly comments. Maybe call the AFP next time you have an issue rather than the Police.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Cards13

[leave it to deever 17,511]

Andrew was quoted as saying:

“So, I took a step back. And I said to my friend, ‘Mate this guy’s serious. We’d better f***ing do something’,” 

“So, I approached him and he ran down the side and then he ended up going down the back of the plane.

“And then two lads grabbed him and disarmed him and bashed the crap out of him and put hog ties on him.”

We Aussies are a no nonsense bunch. 

Edited June 1, 2017 by leave it to deever

[jackaub 1,402]

2 hours ago, Pates said:

So a friend of mine was on that plane, I haven't spoken to him yet though I'm just glad it all worked out ok. 

I think the response time of the police and the time on the ground once they landed was too long but I'm sure all the steps they took were 100% going with protocol to ensure the safety of the passengers. Even though they were probably sure it was one man who was just a nutter and posed no threat of course they would need to go through the check list to make sure he wasn't acting in consort with someone else and that storming the plane won't put lives at risk. 

A security analyst mentioned that one of the delays was probably waiting for tactical response teams, maybe we need to consider having a contingent of tactical response units at the airport in the same way we have the fire crew there on site. 99.99% of the time they won't ever be needed, but for that one incident where they are then they are already there. 

Much like the Lindt cafe siege this needs to be properly reviewed to decide how we deal with any future situations. This doesn't mean drag the officers and leaders over hot coals but just that we should always look to improve. 

so Pates what if the bomb was still armed and went off -BANG   as one of the passengers said as he got off the plane" WE were not considered in any of this!!"

[jackaub 1,402]

1 hour ago, daisycutter said:

no no ethan, you can't justify 60 mins + 90 mins to take final action when they had very good intel

btw i don't blame the individual coppers. they are operating with both hands tied behind their backs, it's the force management and the ideology weak politicians that appoint them and keep them on a tight leash that should take the blame. i wouldn't be a copper for all the tea in china with the lack of support they get. it's 186 every day. 

Then dont join the force right?

[Sir Why You Little 36,971]

3 minutes ago, jackaub said:

so Pates what if the bomb was still armed and went off -BANG   as one of the passengers said as he got off the plane" WE were not considered in any of this!!"

[censored] protocol. Get the passengers off the plane. 

90 minutes before the doors were opened...

[daisycutter 29,604]

1 minute ago, jackaub said:

Then dont join the force right?

not for job satisfaction, unless you are a masochist or just like the uniform and the toys 

[Beetle 4,601]